Subject: CONDENSERS...
 

Yes, that fancy metallic unit with a wire that attaches to your points in your classic automobile...

Just a fancy word for CAPACITOR right??

What kind of capacitor is it? What value would it be?

Been swamped with faulty ones from auto parts stores lately, and if i could rig up a more reliable substitute from my capacitor stash, this would be great...

Any ideas????

SR

its a paper wax cap. general between .25 .47 mfd it depended mainly if they where factory or after market cheapy point and condencer set , the delco uniset was .47 mfd . what are you working on and is it pos. ground .

you also can tell by the running of it ,if its a heavy gas smell and back firing up the carb and tail pipe there general open and you can hang on a .47 mfd 200v cap [ TEST ONLY ] on the wire from points to coil ,[ coil to ground ] if the capacitor is shorted to grd. pull coil wire off and spark will be weak, or no start condition , and also while were on the subject remember always check your dist. shaft for bushing loose it will mimick a open condenser condition.

And go at least 600v. They are paper caps in a metal can and sealed in with epoxy or resin. The metal can has two purposes, to sheild it from heat and to use the can as one of the terminals.

Automotive electrical parts usually have a very wide tolerance level, often 50% or more. So, a .33 cap would probably work. But remember it will be in a high heat, high vibration environment.

Do you use an alternator?

Were talking 67-70 small block 302 v8 (12v NEG. GND) With alternator..

Just been noticing alot of the newer condensers failing. China made ones.. Found an old one in the garage that has held up longer than the brand new ones so far :)

I also have a 32 ford (6v POS. GND) system i changed the condenser on 3 months ago that is now acting like the new condenser has failed as well..

Was hoping to be able to make a more reliable one from my batch of caps and escape the cheaply made condensers...

When you say PAPER CAPS, do you mean like the caps we replace with orange drops, or is it like an electrolytic capacitor?

Thanks

SR...

before we go any further what is your orginal problem is it burning up points , was the wiring changed on the veh. before this problem started ,what are you using for your a droping resister on pos side of coil , some were a special wire type or ceramic type, depending on manufact. and also full 12v comes from starter soleniod while cranking [ only ] make sure its not after its started . check voltage at pos or hot supply side of coil while running should be under 12v. make sure alternator isnt overcharging too. back in the day G.M. got rid of the single spring two part point set ,and made the delco uniset with a double spring for faster and more stable point action on dist. shaft, they help alot even with certain amount of loose shaft bushings. i may even still have some in stock, but if you can find a set or two buy them. also make sure all grounds are good and work eng. to battery eng to body ,body back to battery.

While I have found their ingition systems to be very reliable, Fords generally don't have a dropping resistor before the coil, Voltage is just lost across the crappy wires, and the fusable link in that circuit. And nothing to boost voltage during cranking.... That is a Dodge circuit. And if you have old condensor, use it. I never changed my condensor, just the points.... If you have points problems, especially if the dwell drifts, then you may need a new breaker plate. Its where the points get attached, this fails in higher milage fords with points.....(80,000mi+) Go get a NOS points and Cond. off ebay, then only change the Condensor if you know its bad. (serious point damage in short miles) Generally, the Cap absorbs the noise from the points, for the radio, and absorbs the return from the collapsing field from the coil making the spark. So for that reason, if yer gunna replace it with a store cap, the voltage should be high.... 1000V, able to opperate at 300F. Since there is not much of a demand for points anymore, I would assume, they don't care much about quality anymore....

You are not alone........ http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69426

Try marine parts....

Thanks Username, i believe that link just answered my question..

I am having No points problems, mostly condenser issues.. Got 4 cars that use the same points and condensers and they have all behaved the same till i put a new condenser in them..

Are condensers voltage and polarity sensitive? While im looking to remedy the 4 cars, i may as well look for one for the 1932 6v pos gnd as well..

Thanks folks for all your helpful input :thmbsp:

Steve

[username1] all point cars / truck and ford /g.m./ and crys/ products [engines with points] and more than 2 cylinders needed a boost wire from starter or marked [I ] on every solenoid with some ecp. on solenoid you have a [S terminal and I terminal ] I is your boost terminal . in later models that changed to electronic ing. the [I] terminal was slowly fazed out. when datsun was still being shipped here we had to install the wiring for the boost to the points because datsun never used it in there warm climate. all datsun sold in the north had start problems i cold weather. and yes ford used all types of dropping resisters, wire type and inline resisters made in the harness , and hid it in the coil { resister coil } known as , and in the 60's they played with transister modules mounted on fenders resister was in there sometimes ford used anything they could put there hands on. and witch was a pain to fine depending on the factory worker didnt put were the manual said had take harness apart to find it.i have my orginal manuals if you want me to upload schematics of ford layout.

Actually I would like to see it..... I know that in the crank position it would cut off all accessories on most all cars.... And I never knew about the Datsun thing, I would like to see it too.... Our neighbor had one of the first B210's very dependable, no winter problems.... Same with my dad's '71 Corrona..... I would especially like to see what my '73 mustang was suppose to have because I traced the wire all the way, never found any boost circuit.... I also did not have wiring diagrams back then, so yes I am interested still, in the car that was my first....

Thanks....

boost wire came from start soleniod I to relay under dash . now your saying crank position senor in the 70's car thats had a type system all to its own they used points in early ones for signal only ,ford dint make just one type of ing. system for all cars they more than 5 different generations. lets talk about one at a time .

what car wiring do want to see year make and model, ford one at time, we can go through ,and everone alse back then was trying to get rid of points they made all different types and changes gm was the only one that stayed constant but inproving. ill be back this afternoon we talk all about ford ing. system and there different from 1950- 1975 if you want .

Hey if all else fails, i have a DURASPARK ignition module and distributor i yanked out of a 77 Granada with a 302.. :D

SR

Duraspark was pretty good, the later system with the transistor unit on the distributor had heat problems.... Your Granada unit was fender well mounted....

I am only most familiar with the fords I owned, that had points, that's '71, 72, 73, 351, and 302 v8. Much older cars, and 6v I am not familiar with. And Electronic ignition cars are really not part of the immediate discussion on boost voltage to point systems. I only had Chilton's for those cars, which sucks and is only vague and generalized as it treats each part of the car.

I know that Dodge had a ballast resistor that was jumped during cranking, and I believe that went back before '70, and up to and include electronic ignition, as we had '70 slant 6 and '74 with electronic ignition 318 v8.

I had made my own electronic ignition for my '73, and was quite frustrated trying to figure out why the coil had less than 12V on it, I found 2 to 3v dropped across the wiring, which by 1983 was already corroding, green, and quite stiff and ready to crack and break.

Hey ! I found this page.....

http://randysrepairshop.net/ford-bre...-ignition.html

Snelson, I have to thank you for pursuing this point with me, I am happy to have seen this, But for the life of me, I can't imagine where that ballast resistor was....?
Was it as big as in the Dodge cars...? I don't remember ever seeing it.....

ford seemed to have made a different ing. system every year in the 70's but even back to the middle 60's they tryed to have the points as a trigger for a transister based system instead of directly firing the coil. gm did the similar in the 1966 olds 98 used the the points to trigger a transister you could only get it as a special order idem , you could tell the cars that had it they used a oil filled coil painted red only ,and the resister was made inside the coil they had twice the fire power as the black coils . back in the 70's you could tell what ford ing module you had by how many wires they had ,they always had a grounding problem being bolted to the fender skirt ,if a car would burn out modules alot everyone would run a wire to eng to module and check all other grounds. cry was hole other animal esp with leanburn intangled with dist advance ,they had more than one type of resister single /double, everyone just kept a spare in the glovebox .it all came down to points really sucked and thats why in 73 gm made there h.e.i. dist. ford put there module on the side of the dist. and two choices 7 pin 9pin and it was in use until d.i.s. in the 90's. oh yah i keep forgetting to mention if you are old enough when you to parts store and ask fore a coil remember they always ask if you internal or external resister type coil thats were some was hiden. and how the car's would run if the owner put a coil with a resister in it and the car had one too.