Bought my second car this week!
 

Now that I'm commuting daily to work and winter is closing in having a winter car to rust in place of my Mark V, and hopefully not slip on wet and or snowy/icy pavement is paramount. I also want to save for an older classic so low price point has merit.

Here it is!
http://hanabi.autoweek.com/sites/def...?itok=mf3mKTnc
http://hanabi.autoweek.com/sites/def...?itok=OYwUT7qG

This 1979 Bill Blass Edition can rust in place of my 1978 and the smaller 400CID motor and rusted away metal will make for less mass to cause skidding.:banana:







Okay every darn thing you've just read except for the first paragraph is basically a big joke...:D..........Although I did briefly consider getting a much rougher Mark V as a winter car (I love how a 460CID-V8 can start to heat the car within i residential block's drive). I technically bought it late last week and it is more of a truck than a car.

I've been wanting something that can pull a HEAVY classic on a trailer without modifications (my lincoln could with gusto, but do I really want to add a hitch and change the suspension?), handle well in winter (and not make me feel bad exposing to salt), and be able to hold a large TV console inside without exposing it to the elements. I considered a number of platforms and options...As someone that has spent a lot of time sitting in Hondas (god help my poor back) I was disappointed that most can't even tow something half their weight and tend to resell out of my budget, I was strongly leaning towards a Chevy Suburban (or another GM on that chassis), but the folks hate most of those and I could not seem to find a decent one that was not in some VERY bad neighborhood. GM's variously labled S-10 based SUVs were high on my list (since a friend swears by them), but most are on the edge of major maintenance mileage points, beat to heck, or snapped up instantly from the overwhelming sea of lesser examples.

What I finally went with was a $2800 110k 2002 GMC Envoy. With the same inline 6 engine that my friend swears by in the S-10s, and the optimum axle ratio for towing she should be able to handle up to 6200lbs of TVs, and or towing home a 40's or 50's car to add to my fleet...Not to mention select-able 4WD for winter driving. I lucked out in responding to the add in the 1st half hour and getting off work a bit early to see it.
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There is the predictable wear of a cheap used domestic car: some bad body work both noticeable (tail gate), and hard to notice (correct factory color repaint, and drywall screw attachment of body panels hidden under said panels near the passenger headlamp), cigarette burns in the drivers seat, a lighter and ashtray yet no recognizable smell (I can fix that! :smoke:), undercariage spare tire mount not correctly set up, check engine light, and some small odds and ends I'll have fixed soon or manage to ignore till spring. But all in all it is a good truck. I'll admit I was gambling on the check engine light (which owner said just came on) being something minor, and almost passed on it because of that light, but that turned out to be a good gamble...It got the price down, and changing the $36 single connector single bolt timing sensor fixed it. One nice thing about this car was the guy that sold it was well to do and had sunk a good chunk of change into getting it safe to replace his wife's car (she did not want it though), suspension, steering, exhaust, brakes, etc had been gone over and I saw many shiny new parts bolted to the somewhat rusty undercarriage. It's got it's warts, but none seem to be in the parts needed to go down the road. One thing I really like is the fold flat rear seats....Soo much better for sliding consoles in and out!
https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5722/3...bb92945f_z.jpg

So what do you think?

I now have Ford and GM products so I think once I have more dough again (it will be a while) I'm going to hunt down some "Forward Look" Mopar to help round out my menagerie of large American automobiles. :D

Congrats on the Envoy.
Man.. when I was in 7th grade, the Ford lot was right by school. I remember those 79 Bill Blass Lincolns being unloaded off the truck. I thought they were the most beautiful cars I had ever seen.

Thanks.
I have to agree on the BB Mark Vs. Probably the best paint scheme you could put on those cars...Only thing I don't like about the BBs is that the canvas roof deleted the opera windows. I don't like anything that hampers the great 360 visibility driving a base model. I've seen some BBs that were ordered with a sun roof where they used a white vinyl half roof to accommodate the sun roof...If I ever get a BB MKV I'll probably look for one with a sun roof.

We had an early 2004 Envoy - lots of electrical problems. Two unique ones, both fixed with a swap out of the ignition switch...odd scheme, with high resistance across the contacts of the switch would cause a CEL and popping a code for solenoids in the tranny. The tranny would go into limp mode (no higher than 2nd gear). The Trailblazer forum gave up the solution that worked. NAPA is the only aftermarket store I found that sells the switch.

Engine had 206K on it when we traded it in, and never used a drop of oil, and had plenty of power...All other functions worked fine too.

There is a laundry list of things I should get to. Rear defroster metal tab broke (I'm going to try soldering it), pulley squeak in the engine, passenger inside manual lock switch broken (power still works on it though) the RPM, half the radio and passenger high beam bulbs are bad, I should try to fix the undercarriage spare mounts so I can get the spare out of the back, sounds like there is an air leak on the body or door seals up around 60-80MPH, needs a full in and out clean.

I'm going to try and pass state emissions on my way home from work tonight (the check engine light has stayed off since changing the sensor so fingers are crossed).

The oil is looking a bit old...The change oil light is always the last to go out after starting so I wonder if that is it's indication to change oil soon? I may just change it later this week before the cold front hits.

I need to look up whether the valves are interference type on this engine and the replacement interval on the timing chain...If it is reaching change time and I can't confirm it's been done already then I may just launch a preemptive strike (I'll take it to a dealer service center) on it in a month or so (when I again have enough discretionary funds)....It would royally suck for the chain to break and the valves to get bent.

One thing that is odd is that the electronics occasionally mildly interfere with upper AM stations....Certain faint tones are heard when applying turn signals or breaking.

Come spring I may look for another red one in a wrecking yard and see if I can get a better (less rust and bondo) tail gate...It ain't horrible, but I know I can find a noticeably better one.

I never knew until reading your post and then Googling that there were any state emission requirements in Wisconsin.

And I've been living here for the last 60+ years...

Glad I don't live in the polluted SE counties like you do.

Congrats on the new car. Now rent a trailer and bring a few thou$and$ up here and help empty my storage bins!

.

Pollution really ain't noticeable here (unless you try to swim in lake Pewaukee :yuck: ). If I was just a bit further in the boonies I would not have to worry about emissions, and heck this is the first car I've owned that even is subject to emissions testing so I'm learning about it too.


It will be a bit before I can afford to spend more than a C-note. That car left just enough cash in my account to cover license, operating/food costs and a TINY bit of hobby cash....I'm essentially having to delay rent (read my parent's annoyance fee :D) till a paycheck or two in the future after I pay insurance.

be careful looking for parts...you should have the 4.2L STRAIGHT 6 engine, the S10's of old had the 4.3L VEE-6. slightly different arrangement. ;-)

check for excessive rust underneath and towards the back, and the side sills.

as for the pullys, they dont squeak, they howl when ready to go (you have least the tensioner, possibly also an idler) and they are a cheap easy fix, BUT, the alt and water pump can make squeaks just before they leave the scene.

you should have the 4L60E tranny...fairly good and reliable BUT, they have the hydroformed lip on the sun shell that breaks off if you ever go from F-R or R->F without coming to a COMPLETE and utter stop.

So come to complete and utter stops.

This summer I ran across a nest of decent shape lincolns in PA and thought about mentioning it, but you dont need that distraction!

Thanks for the info.

It did pass emissions.:banana:
Tonight I dealt with three issues. Bad pass high beam bulb, oil and filter* , and the rear window defogger tab. *This thing is rated for 7 quarts and still has room for more (maybe 8.5-10)....There are sheiks that have less oil! I was going to try and solder the connection back on to the window half but the window half unsoldered its self (I was not expecting it to be factory soldered to the window) so I made a crude functional new tab.

I'm noticing that it looks to be riding low (especially in the rear) and good size road bumps are rough...I think the springs are going....This may be an air spring/suspension vehicle (I was not expecting that) there is a built in air compressor for tires and such, and the rear springs look like air bags (from what I saw)... I need to confirm, and see if I can troubleshoot it.

do you have air leveling suspension? if so, bad air bags - common problem and somewhat pricey.

the compressor does run however? it is located above where the spare tire SHOULD be. and is connected in the hatch area close to the bumper.

you can replace with conventional springs....look for strutmasters kits on amazon or rock auto. should take you about an hour. locate some rubber spring bushing to quiet it down from making grinding springy noises.

The pump does not seem to be working. It seems to feed an accessory inflation hose (a sticker there says don't leave the hose connected to the port or auto leveling gets interfered with) and the button in the accessory hose bay is not lighting when pressed. I'm going to consult the owners manual and check some fuses.

I filled the gas tank up yesterday and some problems became evident. First the filler system has a problem...If I try to fill it at anything above a trickle the station pump shuts off (thus it was rather laborious filling it), and this happens even when the tank is almost totally empty...I need to look in to that. Second when full she leaks gas...I started it this morning to warm it up before work, and when I finished breakfast I noticed a 2 basket ball sized puddle near the rear drivers tire that was being fed by a slow drip, and decided to dip a finger and check what it was....There was also another baseball sized puddle near the front passenger tire of unknown fluid type (I did not wait to check it after the IDing the first)....Needless to say I took the Lincoln to work today. There was some presumably gas leakage last night too when I drove it up hill on the driveway...

Fuel Fill problems are covered by a TSB.

Suspension troubleshooting TSBs

Best advice from me - never had any of the problems you have - I got rid of our Envoy - went with a Dodge Caravan with (relatively) fewer problems, but in the rust belt, they become rust buckets. Thank God for mild coastal weather with sanded, not salted roads...

EDIT: 558 TSBs for the GMC Envoy and Envoy XL for 2002.......

It passed emissions, that's the good part! At least, you can drive it.
I thought the price was OK, even a 14 YO SUV sells for more money.
It's a GMC, the professional grade! :D

Well I'm reminded why I don't normally buy parts from Autozone...The $125 filler neck assembly was missing the hose section that connects it's end to the tank, AND one of it's brackets was welded on backwards making that bracket useless... I got it off, but now have nothing to install. Getting it off was hard too. I had to drill out the stinkin bracket behind the filler door because the remaining bolt had fused to the stud....Someone had tried to replace it previously when the bracket broke off the tube, but when they could not get the nut off the bracket they merely fixed the bracket with a hose clamp. I think I'm just going to buy the filler from a dealer, or a different parts store...What I've got just ain't worth making fit.

There is light at the end of the tunnel for the air suspension, though it could be an oncoming train...Not sure yet. It does have air suspension. The pump and or it's power wiring failed sometime ago, and the chosen solution was to cut the two air lines off of it, connect the lines from the bags to a T fitting (where one leg of the fitting is a conventional tire fill nozzle/valve) and pump it till ride height was correct....I broke the fill nozzle off the fitting by accident (there was some pressure left so there is hope it will hold air decently). I don't feel like (or rather can't afford) spending $500 on the correct pump right now so if it holds decent air for over 3 hours (the longest single drive time I can foresee till spring) then I'll get a ~$25 12V compressor and top off the suspension before drives (till I can afford to fix it better). If the bags/pipes don't leak I'll probably keep it air...I may replace the OEM pump with something else, and re-engineer the system with cheaper more reliable parts....half a grand for a pump that is smaller than an AA5 radio is completely nuts!

Worst case I'll have to do springs soon....

Well after being annoyed by lack of a source for a correct rubber fuel filler hose and by every replacement filler having a backwards bracket I finally came up with a solution. The hose I cleaned with Goof-Off...I had to use it to melt the rubber inside the hose to remove all the rust that had fused to it from the old metal filler neck...I checked more carefully and discovered the filler neck bracket will fit backwards or forwards, and was able to get that fitted. Fingers crossed that it don't leak.

After running around looking for a replacement plastic fitting for the one that the previous owners used to kludge the air ride back to life, and getting lots of blank stares and replies of 'try this place', and attempting to duplicate it with a bunch of brass fittings, I finally got fed up and super-glued the snapped off piece of the old plastic fitting back together. After reinstalling it the GMC is holding air like a champ. Using me knee as a yard stick the rear suspension has not noticeably dropped in the ~2 days I was keeping track since my fix.:thmbsp: For now I'll get by occasionally toping off the suspention with a 12V air pump I've got. I've found a factory correct pump for half the price I initially saw, so come spring I may try installing one of those. I wish the Chilton's had some info on the air ride beyond the procedure for changing the darn air springs....(they must think the air springs are inflated by pixies :rolleyes: ) I have no way to know if the pump failed or it's control circuits failed without a wiring diagram...

All was good till I tried to do the rear brakes....I should have let the wheel being VERY stuck to the hub stop me, but I managed to get it loose with penetrating oil and a lot of force.
The rotor was grooved and junky, despite lots of pad left, due to a stuck slider....The slider broke off upon trying to unscrew it, so I needed to replace the caliper bracket it's stub is stuck in....That seems to be stuck on too though. One of the bolts that holds the bracket on did not want to loosen up EVER...By the time it was half way out the head was round beyond any hope of grip. After getting it sorta back together I realized I might be able to grind flats onto it. So at this point if I can't/don't do that then I think it is time to take it to a repair shop...Only problem is that I'm broke this week.

At least it should not snow this week so I can keep using the Lincoln...

Always entertaining to hear about your auto-adventures ! I hate Chiltons books
for cars. I had one, and once I got the real book from the dealer I never again
got a chiltons for anything. Once I get a car, I immediately begin searching ebay
until I find one for the new car. By the time I need it, I usually find one at a good price.

Your air suspension compressor may or may not be bad, I would test it and the
sensors associated with it before just replacing it. There are lots of videos on youtube
about the air suspension, and the compressor does not seem to be the star of those
videos. I have known a number of people with air leveling suspension, most have
also gone to real spring replacement kits. It seems the air "bags" as they are called
seem to be the biggest problems.

My dad had it on our '87 LTD wagon, it always worked very well, and never failed.
On that car the compressor was under the hood with the engine, always warm and
dry.......

It may be worth a trip to the salvage yard to get the correct fittings from an
unmolested car, I wouldn't want that super glued fitting to come apart on me in
sub-zero weather. I don't trust super glue, I try and use epoxy, and liquid metal,
and other epoxy's with the word weld, or metal in the name. They are pretty good,
and seem to be temperature stable.

It looks like you have a few salvage years where they still let you in and do your
own parts pulls, If so that's great. I don't have that anymore here. I would just
take a small battery from a security system backup or garden tractor and get
a air pump off a similar vehicle, tested first of course.

Good Luck.


.

Yeah, I've been thinking about seeking a maker service manual.

I did attempt to test the compressor (hooked main power to a battery and nothing happened) only I don't know if it is a smart or dumb compressor....You see in addition to the 2 hefty red and black power wires on the main connector there is about 4-6 much smaller ones....I don't know if those are for valve solenoids or maybe some unknown internal relay in the pump...The pump has a second electrical connector with three fine wires that I believe goes to the accessory inflation port switch/indicator in the vehicle cabin.
If the pump was only 2 wires I could say for certain that it is dead, but without a wiring/schematic diagram of the system I just don't know enough about how electrically it is supposed to work to properly troubleshoot it.

That fitting I glued is aftermarket (no finding that in a salvage yard)....When the pump died they chopped the air lined to the bags off of the pump, then the took the lines from the bags and attached them to a plastic compression/rubber O-ring based 'T' fitting where the bottom leg of the T is a tire inflation nozzle. I've seen super glue do a good job of holding plastic together and it only needs to last till spring.

I may get the replacement air suspension parts from a salvage yard. IIRC there are pull your part yards near by....Never been in a salvage yard before though. I wanted to go to one for parts for the Lincoln, but could not find one with an applicable parts car....Seems most yards around here don't keep stuff over 20 years old....There should be hope for salvage yard parts for the Envoy though...I still see a lot of them on the road. I'm not going to a salvage yard till spring though...Today is likely the last moderately hospitable one for that this year, and I only have one winter coat that needs to stay nice-ish for work.

Thanks.

About a week ago I fixed the brakes myself...

Started last week tuesday. I ground the caliper bracket bolt head down (with a rotary Dremel) till I could hammer the next socket size down (11/16 IIRC) onto it. I made sure it was a darn snug fit, then took a breaker bar to it. I kept the socket on the bolt at all times till it was out...After that, the brake work on that side was cake, and I went to the other side.

I had to (gently :D ) sledge hammer that wheel off after the bolts were off since the wheel/hub/rotor had gotten rather stuck to each other (penetrating oil and kicking did nothing). I took all the lessons from the first wheel and applied them to the second, and I was able to get all the bolts off. Better yet even though one slider pin was getting rather sticky I was able to get the slider pins out, cleaned and re-greased.

I almost had it together when I hit a snag the pads did not want to go in. I concluded the spring clips on that side were bad, and the next day got replacements....Granted the parts store gave me the wrong ones at first (so I had to go back with the originals). With that I got the rear brakes done.

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The results were interesting. The passenger side had an intermittent grind...After trying a couple of things I decided to try setting and releasing the E-brake, and that seems to have cured it.

The drive where I found the grind was rather disappointing though...At the end the air suspension which held level PERFECTLY for a week dropped and upon parking it I could hear an air hiss.....The next day after messing with the grind I filled it with air, grabbed a spray bottle of water and went leak hunting. The problem, much to my chagrin, was partially the fault of carelessness on my part. Apparently when I installed that T fitting the plastic air line under the car moved out of place and alighted on the exhaust pipe :eek:....Luckily only a small hole resulted.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5494/3...16b7453b_z.jpg

I tried to super glue the hole*, but came to realize the stuff never 'dries' in the cold. So I tried warming it with a lighter and promptly set the drop of glue on fire...Who knew super glue was flammable :dunno: I blew it out (heat may have melted the plastic sealed) and retried keeping the flame farther away. Once dry I tested for leaks (none found), slathered it with Permatex red silicone and wrapped that with heat shrink tubing cut with a spiral from end to end so it would wrap the line securely. I followed up on recurrence prevention by taking some aluminum POTS wire and tying the line away from the exhaust...I may add more tiebacks.

* I made sure to de-presureise the system so leaking air would not blow the glue away...In fact I drew a slight vacuum (what my lungs are capable of making) on the line to draw the glue in.

The results: It has held air for almost a week and survived 2 work commutes.
I found a nice folding table for swap meets at a thrift yesterday too. :)

First big snow occurred over the weekend so yesterday I decided to test the 4WD....There are 5 settings for the 4WD transfer case 2Hi, AWD, 4Hi, 4Lo, and Neutral.

I put it in AWD mode* and got it half way to work on the poorest cleared road segments and the fastest segment (~70 on the highway) and all was well. Then I took off from a light and suddenly it was dragging the proverbial anchor...I was giving it enough gas to go 60-80 and it did not want to go over 35-40, and was squeaking and grinding. I have not read enough of the manual to know if it is only safe to make transfer case shifts in park so I kept it in AWD until the next light.... Before I got there it loosened up a good bit (when it did break loose there was some horizontal shimmy akin to brake steer) and I got up to the 50-55 traffic was moving, but it was still not happy so I went back to 2Hi (that it has been in most of the time I've had it).
Back in 2Hi all was normal.

*I'm fairly sure AWD mode defaults to RWD until the rear wheels slip then the front engages.

That evening on my way home I decided to try 4Hi (which I believe is constant 4WD) and wondered if it was stiff from disuse, and wanted to see if it was the forward gear or the AWD system that was acting up. I shifted it into 4Hi and drove about 4 blocks. It was not really improving, and I was REALLY dragging an anchor. Grinding was more pronounced, and as soon as I let off the gas, pretty good braking action without touching the brake occurred.

I've noticed before all this that in 2Hi mode that the front occasionally will grind a bit on sharp-ish turns (which I initially guessed was brake related).

I think there is some problem in the front differential or it's linkage to the wheels... Unless it is a cheap shop fix, or really easy I think I'll keep it in 2Hi until spring.

If you want I can scan the TSBs for 4WD problems/solutions - lemme know. I have access to the whole Chiltons Library, courtesy of 22 years in the Navy....gotta love those bennies.

That is a nice offer, and I'll be happy to read them (and eventually use them) if posted, but odds are I'm not going to do anything about it for a while, and I don't want to ask you to waste your time...It's 11 degrees outside currently and likely to remain bitter cold for the next month or two....I'm the kinda guy that don't want to stay outside longer than it takes to get the car jacked off the ground when temps drop below 38.

The check engine light came on again with the same sensor code, and one regarding the coolant recently....Crap I need to remember to check coolant level.

Here's the first batch.

And the second.

And the absolute last.

Don't pick at scabs...
 

I wanted to test/diagnose the system further today. Last night I read the owners manual and it said that the 2Hi, A4WD, and 4Hi settings could be switched between at any speed. And I figured "well if I try it in 4 wheel mode again and things go wrong I can just go back immediately to 2 and be fine, so another test should be safe"...Bad Idea.

It snowed last night so I tested it again on the morning commute and since the roads were better cleared around where it first freaked out last time, I shifted back to 2 wheel mode just before I got there (and made sure the 2Hi indicator came on solid), and thought "great nothing went wrong or acted up, I can use A4WD mode in bad conditions" and proceeded on happily.
About a mile later it suddenly starts to sound bad..."But I'm in 2Hi; it never does this in 2Hi", I thought. I looked down and the selector knob was still in 2Hi but the indicator light for A4WD was on...The damn thing changed transfer case modes on it's own! :eek: :nono:...Worse yet it did not want to go back to 2Hi, and was banging and shuddering pretty bad. After one of the worse bangs I started to hear a gear clatter sort of like the ratchet arm on a hand crank winch...I was starting to think it was not going to make it to the red light half a block up, but it did. I again tried while stopped at the light to shift into 2Hi and this time it obliged, and stayed in 2Hi (even through my drive to lunch).

I'm starting to think the transfer case and or it's control system may be more at fault here. Those service docs make me question the rotary encoder on the shift motor.

With this last bit of engineers curiosity/optimism (short of being stuck in a snow bank or totally unable to get moving on ice) I'm not going to intentionally shift the transfer case out of 2Hi until road salt season is over... I don't want to brick my power train during a time a time of year where it would not be good to use the Lincoln as a fall back.

On a positive note a few days ago I unintentionally confirmed I have ABS and that it seems to work. :D

The grinding shuddering sounds like the traction control might be kicking in for some reason. different sized tires will cause problems for some electronically controlled AWD systems, as will a bad wheel or driveshaft speed sensor.

The shift motors are a problem on the GM trucks, the internal potentiometer goes bad and it can't tell what range it's in.

GM front axles use essentially a cv or double cardan joint and it could be bad, or the propellor shaft from the xfer case to the axle could have a bad u joint. these are easy fixes ranging from fairly cheap ($15 u joint) to moderate ($100 cv)

Since the mechanical cacophony only occurs in 4/AWD it points to something that rotates only when the system is engaged. It would be hard for me to describe how to fix it here, pictures are worth a 1000 words and there are quite a few you tube videos on the repairs.

the entire system is a close, inbred cousin of the system used for the old S10 blazer, married to the Olds Bravada AWD system.

They have fleas, but they are fixable fleas.

do you have access to a garage and/or a lift? you need the wheels off the ground so you can grab hold of drive shafts and look. Id like to suggest you need a proper brake pin/balljoint/u joint on-car press tool (essentially a giant c-clamp) but you can get by with good sockets and big hammers.

and I know you like doing this stuff yourself but a word of caution, if you can lift up the majority of your tools at once, you aint got the right tool - so proceed with caution. when working ok, these systems are quite competent.

Good for you buddy,she looks nice!!!!!

Twas in the 60's this weekend (positively tropical for Milwaukee in January) so I decided to replace the thermostat. Other VK members in another thread astutely pointed out that the heater and temp gauge symptoms I was talking about pointed to the thermostat being defective. In addition to the the heater and the temp gauge staying well below designed temp on days below 30F, on the warm Friday commute (55F) temp gauge reached operating temp, the heater was able to deliver comparatively (to cold days) nuclear warmth, and the check engine light turned it's self off....Good confirmation.

In this truck the thermostat is a permanent part of it's housing which is bolted to the side of the block in a well buried location.
Text book procedure is to pull the belt and alternator (see video below), but I wanted to avoid that and mess with as few systems at once as feasible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9jVh4JyyM
Then I found another video which shows how to sneak in to get it through the wheel well...Probably requires twice the coordination/dexterity but a VERY good method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le18lv3W67A
Saturday afternoon I got it up on a jack stand pulled the driver's side front wheel, and checked access. I first got both bolts loose (to make sure this method could work) then pulled the bottom radiator hose (no drain plug avail) to drain the fluid. I was able to use the hose to get the old thermostat out. I then compared my part from O'riley's and noticed it was not made to restrict flow when closed any better then the old stuck open one....I re-consulted the first video parts compare and concluded the replacement was bad. I drove to another O'riley and compared the first replacement to the second...Same problem. I then went to the Advanced Auto a block away and asked to look at one of theirs...The part from Advanced was actually CLOSED PROPERLY in the cool closed position. I bought it on the spot, then returned O'riley's part and informed the clerk of the issue.
Back home I put the new one on the hose in as close to the same rotational position on the hose as I could and fished it back to the mount point on the block with the hose (the reverse of how I extracted the original), and went on a hunt for the two mount bolts that got dropped. Found one and gave up on the other. I got an two bolts that were a near exact matches and 3 others that would definitely work at the hardware store. I lost one trying to get it threaded on. I got the bottom bolt on and had a hard time with the top. Looking in through a small crevice above the alt. I could see misalignment of the holes from the top being rotated. I could grab the hose and line it up but not get it to stay. My solution was to put a wrench on the bottom bolt, station dad down there to tighten it down on my signal. I lined it up, he tightened the bottom bolt (wanted him to align it, and me to tighten but he could not see what I was looking at) and it stayed in place. That may be the only car repair dad does all year. :tongue: Persuaded the top bolt in, hooked back up the bottom hose of the radiator, filled and it warmed up to operating temp quickly at idle then stabilized there. Got the wheel back on and it was still doing fine on the test drive....Only thing that bugs me is that the check engine light came back on....If it don't go out I may try having it reset.

Ah.... Squeezing in a few repairs while the temperature permits.....
That is a pretty interesting thermostat you got growing there....

Me and the wife inherited a 1997 Chevy Express B I G Van 5.0L
actually a Conversion van, Living room on wheels ! Complete with
CRT TV and VCR ! - Well anyway, we have been seeing antifreeze
on the ground every now and then, turns out it's the Intake Manifold
gasket slowly dissolving. In addition to that a few weeks ago on a trip
the engine 127K Miles developed a bad miss...... That turns out to be
some little creature living under the upper intake manifold....
"The Creature of Darkness" as referred to in one YouTube video....
The Original Poppet valve "Spider" Fuel injection system beginning to
take a dump..... So In this "Warm Spell" here in Freeze-Land I am
doing the intake manifold - Spider - Serpentine belt - and Belt Tensioner.

A few other little doo-daads near by are also on the list..... Guess What !?

Your little Envoy may have the same little creature living under your hood as well....
If you're lucky the previous owner has already replaced all that stuff with
the upgraded parts ! Spider and Intake Manifold Gaskets.
Anyway good luck to ya !

PS take a look at your Belt Tensioner ours was wobbly and almost ready to fall
off with no warning noise at all..... Good Luck !

PS2 - YouTube is great to preview all these repairs !


.

Oh god I hate those spider injection vortec engines. Absolute garbage. The v8s aren't that bad, but the v6s are not even worth the time or money, imo. If anyone here has one of those, just... do yourself a favor and get rid of it.

If you're doing a lower intake gasket (very common to leak coolant, btw), while you're at it, replace that spider crap with the retrofit kits you can buy. They're literally the same price as the oem type spider, it's direct fit, looks similar, but instead of the stupid poppet valves that require surgical cleanliness and precise amounts of vacuum to operate (which you're not going to get from an engine designed in the 1960s) it uses mini regular injectors.

->HERE<-

Also, when you're reinstalling the upper intake, be extremely careful with the giant oval-shaped o-ring around the big ol' injector plug - it's VERY easy to pinch. Rub it with grease - a little, not a lot - and ease the intake down onto it, focusing on that seal, and take your time.

Also, also, the distributors on these always have problems. They get loosey-goosey sometimes and the shaft wobbles inside. And despite being non-adjustable, they actually have some wiggle room, and need to be adjusted to 0 degrees +/- 1 degree. Kind of need a scanner for that, unfortunately. You also have to do it pretty much while the engine is hot and running, it's very unpleasant, but should be much easier on a van than on a pickup. After you finish the intake, you'll probably get a check engine light for crankshaft/camshaft correlation, because of the distributor adjustment.

Mine is an inline 6 so hopefully is is not as bad as the V engines.

Yes I have read all the poop about the Vortec and the Spiders. I am upgrading to
the new Multi point spider. Seen all the videos about setup and distributor.
Taking my time and hoping it will all go well......

Inline 6 ~ You may have escaped the spider deal....... But I bet they have some
other little doo-hickey waiting in the wings for you.... I thought Envoys used
V6 engines......

Thanks .

.

The first gen (mine is a second gen thus I6) Envoys that were based on the S10 chassis did use a V6...A friend has had ~6 SUVs on that platform (Chevy, olds, and GMC all put their name on one) and swears by them, and a mutual friend can't see what he sees in those.

Well, Sorry I'm not up on the GM line. They are not my first choice, But I do like
this van A Lot, so I'm going to do what I can to keep it alive.

I'm not sure if you got away with anything not having "the spider" under your hood or not.
I never heard of it till a few weeks ago - Ha !

At any rate, it seems that with any used car, the new owner has some stuff to do to
get it up to standards..... Good Luck !

.

Thanks! I'm going to do my best once it gets consistently warm/tolerable to work outside.

Also hope my trivia/know-it-all-syndrome on what has what engine did not come across as being crabby....I did a bunch or research on this and the S10 SUVs when I was trying to buy a car and regurgitating it helps keep it in my mind....Though I'm not sure why I want to hang onto it...Guess I'm just a pack-rat for useless facts...

Oh, a later model Envoy. Good on you! While it's not a spectacular engine... in fact it is rather strange... I'd take a crappy one of those over a nice vortec motor any day. Because, you know, you actually can make the I6 run well.

I see you did the thermostat the hard way. I know I'm an experienced mechanic, but still, taking the alternator out of one of those is a walk in the park, and then the thermostat is right there in the open. So what code are you getting for the check engine light?

Got three codes according to AutoZone:
P0128 Low coolant temp....Either the engine has not cleared the codes prior to Saturday or the ECT temp sensor is bad (the other probable causes were dealt with by saturday's work).
P1481 cooling fan speed signal lost...Claims either bad electrical connection or bad fan clutch.
P0442 (evaporative emission system) small leak/no flow condition...I have a hunch that one is from completely filling my gas tank 3 miles before the diagnostic.

It actually was not all that hard changing the thermostat that way...Ignoring the parts runs it was ~1hour of work....Swapping/repositioning the capstan belt on a Realistic TR-3000 RTR deck is more of a pain (try doing ~8 screws that are out of hand's reach on one of 5 steps of disassembly just to get at the belt)...Heck tricks that working on that deck taught me were applied to the GMC.

Well, it's usually 100 ignition key cycles to clear the codes. Just go back to AZ and tell them to clear the codes for you. Hopefully that takes care of the first code.

Sadly, the fan is where these motors start getting weird. It's a hybrid of an old school belt-driven thermostatic clutch fan, AND an electric fan. If I recall correctly, it's an electronic duty-cycle based fan clutch. (It's really stupid.) Don't think I've ever come across a bad one, though. If the code specifies it's lost the fan speed signal, either the fan isn't turning at all or the computer isn't getting the speed signal from the sensor in the fan. The wiring and plug should be on the drivers side of the fan shroud. Dig in there, unplug the plug for it and examine the pins and wires for corrosion. Gently tug on the wires on the back of each side of the plug to check if they're broken inside the insulation. If thats all shipshape, you'll probably need to replace the fan clutch, $112 on rockauto.com. If you want to get really into the nitty-gritty electronical diagnosis - which, you're here, so - you can put an O-scope across 2 of the 5 wires and you should get the speed wave while the fan is turning. I've never looked up the wiring on that, but 5 wires tells me: 2 for duty cycle command, 3 for speed sensor. 3 = pos, neg, and signal. A digital 3 wire sensor will need power to work (5, 8, or 12v) and make a square wave, so you'll have to test while it's on the car and while it's running, unless you feel like completely removing it and hooking it up to a power supply on your workbench, and spinning it (usually 100rpm or higher to register). But it can be done.

As for evap... it's a lot easier when you have a real good scanner and a smoke machine... but just off the top of my head, it's probably the vent solenoid valve at the back of the car. Most common problem, anyway. You can unplug it and apply 12v to see if it operates or not. Unless you just left the gas cap loose on one of those fillups.