Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums

Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums (http://www.videokarma.org/index.php)
-   Things with Motors (http://www.videokarma.org/forumdisplay.php?f=186)
-   -   Ford 1600 Tractor charging problem solved! (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=265262)

Charlie 09-21-2015 12:08 PM

Ford 1600 Tractor charging problem solved!
 
I’ve been dealing with charging issues on my late-70’s Ford 1600 tractor. This was a Japanese-built tractor. They’re really great - until something goes wrong. Finding parts was typically difficult, but seems to have gotten easier in the past ten years thanks to the internet. It’s easier finding parts for an old 8N from the 50’s!

I decided to document this here because all my internet searches for the subject usually turned up with someone having similar issues as I am having, but never seemed to find the answer. Those folks, like myself, spent money on both alternators AND regulators and still got nowhere. Well, dammit, I finally got it! Maybe this will help someone else.

My charge light first came on about 5 years ago. When I checked things out, that light was right. It wasn’t charging. So, for all this time, I just go out there and put the battery charger on it now and then. It gets me though the day.

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed the battery wasn’t taking much of a charge. I remember buying that battery the same week of Hurricane Ike… that was in 2008. Hell… seven years for a Walmart battery isn’t too bad… so went and bought another.

Since I was buying a new battery, I decided to see about fixing the charging issue. First, I took the original alternator down to the auto parts store so they could test it on the machine. Come to find out, they cant just put them on there and see what kind of amperage it’s putting out like they used to. The new testers have a friggin computer in it that wants data about the car… what year, make, model, etc. Then, the tester only tells you if the alternator passes or fails. There’s no meter to give you volts and amps. When I told the guy it was from a tractor, he just shook his head “no” and explained how the new tester worked. Basically, these modern testers at the parts house are too smart for their own good! I know this alternator (it’s a Hatichi) was used in certain cars/trucks… seems I recall Datsun/Nissan/Isuzu after all my internet searching, but it wasn’t enough for that guy to go on. Curses!!

The bearings in the original felt a little sloppy, and I found new alternators on the web for 67 dollars, so I decided to just buy one. It arrived a week later, but no go. Didn’t work.

Went to find a regulator. The old unit is mechanical, and after entering part number TL1Z-61D in a google search, come to find out it’s a pretty common regulator used on many Jap vehicles of the 1970’s. However, I discovered a solid-state regulator that was a replacement for the TL1Z-61D and bought that instead. It was 23 dollars. Got it. Didn’t work. Period. The dash light wouldn’t even come on anymore! What a disappointment! I read someone’s comment that it may be necessary to change the wires around. Well, without a diagram of the new unit, I can’t really do that.

Twice before, I had played with the old regulator… checking the resistors and relay coils… never found anything open. So after checking it a third time this week, I decided to assume the regulator was good and go look around on the tractor for something else.

Continued in next post...

Charlie 09-21-2015 12:11 PM

Continued...
 
Had to do several hours of searching to find some good diagrams for this tractor. I found a really nice diagram for a 1700… which has just a little more involved compared to the 1600. The charging system looks to be the same, so I studied it for a while. Later found a 1600 diagram, but there was no way to save the picture so I had to take a pic of the computer using my phone, so the end result was not the best… but still useful. I also stumbled across a diagram of the regulator and alternator. It was a pretty basic diagram, but still helpful. I got the most info using the diagram for the 1700.

There are two fused circuits on the tractor. One is a 15 amp circuit for lights, and the other is a 5 amp circuit that goes to the regulator and indicator light. Of course, I checked to make sure the fuses were good long ago, and they were still good today. HOWEVER, I decided to start poking around with a volt meter. I discovered 12 volts going into the fuse block, but only 8 volts coming out of the fuse block! I pulled them out and checked again… both fuses good. BUT, the little tabs holding the fuses had just a fine layer of oxidation and corrosion… just enough to let some voltage through… but not all! I got some sandpaper and shined up those tabs, tightened them a little with some pliers, and VOILA! We now have a charge from the alternator and the indicator light finally turned off!

If I notice any more issues with this, I will likely either purchase a new fuse block with fresh connections, or just install a couple of those spring-loaded inline fuse holders.

So if you’re charging system isn’t working on a Ford 1600/1700 series tractor, check that fuse block and make sure all the contacts are clean before spending money on parts. Only getting 8 volts to the regulator was killing it!

Just another example of how poor connections can cause problems!

Charlie 09-21-2015 12:53 PM

Ford 1600 1700 tractor wiring
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here's some diagrams that might be helpful. I had to shave off a little so they would fit, but still be large enough to use.

On the 1600 diagram, the line going down is only going to a tail light (which mine doesn't have).

On the 1700 diagram, I had to shave off a few wire color codes at the left. They are as follows:

B: black
L: blue
N: brown
O: orange
R: red

The 3rd diagram shows current flow for the charging system only.

Electronic M 09-23-2015 12:25 PM

Congratulations on fixing your tractor's charger. If you know what cars that SS regulator fits you could try looking up those car's diagrams to figure out the SS reg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie (Post 3144202)
Later found a 1600 diagram, but there was no way to save the picture so I had to take a pic of the computer using my phone, so the end result was not the best… but still useful.

If your computer is Windows, and Vista or newer there IS a way to save the picture. Under the start menu type into the programs search box Snipping Tool. That program comes with the OS and allows you to take screen shots of an area of the screen that you select, and you can save it to a few image file formats.

Older versions of windows can save the entire screen with alt+prt sc (print screen) IIRC.

Charlie 09-23-2015 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electronic M (Post 3144404)
Older versions of windows can save the entire screen with alt+prt sc (print screen) IIRC.

Yeah I knew there was a way... just couldn't remember the process.

On the regulator... this solid state unit is "supposed" to be a direct replacement for the mechanical unit... but oh well. I don't mind using the mechanical unit. Plus, for future reference, I measured those resistors in there in case one of them ever burns out... I can just put another resistor in there. It seems those resistors are what typically fails.

Olorin67 09-23-2015 06:05 PM

I've had bad luck with solid state replacement regulators for old stuff that had mechanical relay regulators originally. Someone stole the regulator off my 69 Chrysler Newport, so I had to get a new one, and all the parts place had was these Taiwan solid state things... basically if the new regulator doesn't make good enough contact with ground through the mounting bolts, it fries...the original connections do not have a ground wire. Took a couple regulators to figure that out. Found some old style ones on ebay, and went back to original. When Chrysler went to SS regulators a couple years later, they changed the field winding set up in the alternators around to be work better with SS regulators. Lesson learned- less trouble to keep it original than re-engineer the car in ways its designers didn't intend.

Oxidized connections are the bane of anyone who has an old car in road salt territory. more then once Ive had weird issues that eventually were traced to bad grounds or excessive voltage drop (Chrysler bulkhead connectors especially!) Also had an air cooled VW with fuel injection-- one poor connection and you were on the side of the road polishing connections with an emery board to try to get it running..

Charlie 09-24-2015 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olorin67 (Post 3144431)
. Someone stole the regulator off my 69 Chrysler Newport, so I had to get a new one...

Wow... that's messed up! I wudda been mad about that!! :uzi:

philcophan 09-25-2015 09:48 AM

My old stand by repair for all that foreign scrap is to rewire it to accept a good old Mopar regulator... damn near bulletproof and end of finding parts...

Jim

Olorin67 09-25-2015 08:00 PM

yeah it sucked... I drove off and got a few miles as it was getting dark and I realized its not charging...then I found some wires hanging on the firewall...a 69 Newport doesn't have a hood lock. If I ever need a new alternator, it will probably be re-wired to use a newer mopar SS regulator like the one my 73 Imperial has. the newer style alternators are still widely available.

bgadow 09-26-2015 09:18 PM

I didn't realize some of the Fords were from Japan. Who built those? My father had a late 80s British-built Ford, something like a 260C or some such, man, that thing was tough! It really taught me new respect for Ford tractors.

Electronic M 09-26-2015 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgadow (Post 3144728)
I didn't realize some of the Fords were from Japan. Who built those? My father had a late 80s British-built Ford, something like a 260C or some such, man, that thing was tough! It really taught me new respect for Ford tractors.

Some 70's ford light trucks (Courier IIRC) were Japanese made too.

bgadow 09-26-2015 10:08 PM

My father had a Courier when I was a kid; Mazda built. They were pretty tough, too, though the engine was used up by 50k.

Electronic M 09-26-2015 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgadow (Post 3144738)
My father had a Courier when I was a kid; Mazda built. They were pretty tough, too, though the engine was used up by 50k.

Probably had the Jap engine....Ford also offered them with their own 'Merican engines too, and those seemed to be longer lived.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.