Question about the Pair of CT-100's at ETM Auction
 

Maybe later when some of the lucky auction goers get home and settled they can answer my question, which is:

I watched the youtube video of the auction and the CT-100 with poor CRT sold for $500 and the one with the good for 4K. Were there reasons other than the CRT's why the one sold so much higher? Im just trying to get a grip on the value of these. Thanks!

The bad one went first. Everyone one was trying to save all their money for the good one and let it slip through the cracks in to my hands. :D :banana::banana::banana:

If the order had been reversed the bad one would have gone much higher as a consolation prize to second or third runner up to the good one.

Unrestored examples with down to air CRTs have gone for twice what I just paid for a restored set that has a dead green gun, but good red and blue guns.... Every one there was telling me that I stole it/got the best deal of the auction.:thmbsp:

A happy camper I be today.:banana:

Congratulations! :thmbsp:

Out of curiosity, how dead is the green gun? Possible rejuvenation? :scratch2:

jr

I didn't put a tester on it and took their word and demonstration of the working chassis driving the tube with purity misadjusted as proof their test was as described.

I'm en route home so will not have chance to confirm the test on my tester till tomorrow at earliest.

Thanks! Congrats! I thought it went cheap too but I know little about them. Were the cabinets and chassis comparable condition wise? Amazing the price difference between the two. The video was at quite a distance so hard to tell much about them.

I hope that all these dead CT-100 CRT's everywhere can be rebuilt at some point.

I would call that well-bought! For that price I think I could get use to the color being a little off.

I didn't attend but looking at the pictures online, IMO the one with the bad CRT has the better cabinet.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/conve...uction_tv.html

Exactly, and by a good margin. The top of mine looks to have been refinished, and the only noticeable finish issue is the front feet. Mine also has the restored chassis* the other set had an unrestored chassis.

*They put it into both sets to prove both CRTs would show a raster. They also either never had or never reinstalled the chassis bolts...I got it into the Burban face down then noticed that...When I lifted the back to try to get the holes to line up with some improvised chassis bolts the chassis slid back and nearly brained the CRT...Scarred me real bad.

:) Tom , SUPER congratulations on getting that TV ! I don't know if it's your first CT100 or not , but I couldn't think of a more deserving collector of old TV's to get it than you . I look forward to your photos of it when you get it home and get into it .

Thanks. It is the first CT-100 I've owned, but not my first CTC-2 based set. It will go well with its cousin, my 21CT55 (CTC-2B).

I've been home since late last night...Unloading is going to be 'fun'. I've gotten all but the 2 sets (CT-100 and top secret project 'M') that weigh at least as much as I do out. The CT-100 required 4 people to get it in my truck, I don't think I'll have 4 people to help me get it out... Project 'M' at least is designed, and positioned such that it can be easily disassembled to make it lighter, but the CT-100 is laying face down on styrofoam so the roof of my suburban will prevent removing the chassis with it in the truck...

Congratulations.

(Wayne, will you be posting the convention photos?)

The best deal of the auction by far was the Baird! I, the buyer, Steve McVoy and several other owners of similar sets agree. Absolutely unbelievable deal.

Steve must have been crying into the paving fund.

I'm doing some editing now, will be posting later this week when I get back home.

Who says the world's not ready for 4K TV?

First one of these I'd been to -- nice to see the rare sets in-person.

RCA CTC7-12's lost their red first, it was the red phosphor's inefficiency. The failure of a color in the 15GPs and 21AX's probably a cathode issue.

Congratulations Tom, does the HV work OK?

HV was always my fear of these early color beasts.

Agreed. John damn near stole that set. It was definitely a buyer's market this year, though part of that was the ETF's fault.

The order of the lots in the auction was moronic and helped depress prices. Most of the rare and valuable stuff was wedged in the middle, depressing prices in the first half as some collectors saved their budget for the middle of the auction. The set I was really after, the Rembrandt, was in the last quarter of the sets. I was comfortable spending $2000 or so, yet only spent $500 or $600 because I was expecting a much bigger fight for the Rembrandt in the last quarter of the auction. I wish now I had bid higher on the Motorola; I probably would have taken it home.

Everything (excepting the CRT) was better in the $500 set. Tom got a great deal. $500 set is on the right.

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...1&d=1525712611

Photo credit to Keith Gehring's FB post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2957...7896350659076/

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Stating the obvious, if it has a raster, there is hope. Nice looking set.

The one thing I noticed was that the auction prices were downright brutal on anyone selling a black-and-white. I thought the Melody-Tone was cute in its unadorned cabinet, but I really have enough B&W sets already.

I was seriously considering making a good bid on the black steel CTC-16, but with no description whatever on the condition of the set, it was truly a pig in a poke.

At last, I finally have a CRT tester/rejuvenator, which I've wanted for decades.

That clear pic of them side by side really shows how much nicer looking the one on the right is. The cabinet and cloth look pretty good and are in much better shape than the other one, looks wise.

If it had been me that forked over 4 grand for the set with the good CRT, I would have attempted to buy both and assemble one good presentable unit from the two. The leftover set would be useful as a parts donor to keep the better example running, and for practice purposes for things like setup and alignment procedures. That said, I am happy such an interesting set went to a member here so that we all get to read about it. If they're still doing these conventions in a few years I might finally be able to go in 2022 or 2023..

Mine with the bad CRT was auctioned first. Whoever got the one with the good CRT would have had to find me after the auction and offer me enough to resell it... That also probably would not have been seen as a likely deal by anyone since I bid several other early color sets up to the 1-2k range before loosing....I could have also won the Admiral or Motorola if I had the guts to blow my whole TV budget.....Sad part was I was sure I had won the Admiral and the (apparently blind) auctioneer was looking at the guy behind me and ignoring me... I'm hoping for a smarter auctioneer next year.

I agree with several of the above posted comments, I wasn't able to attend this year, but I thought the museaum did a horrible job presenting these sets, as I watched the streaming feed online. What was even more aggravating for me was that I had emailed Steve McVoy 3 times confirming my absentee bid on the 21 inch Zenith color console with the horizontal line. Then I watched them sell the set for 50 bucks, completely ignoring my bid that was substantially higher. Steve did send me an email several minutes later apologizing for their incompetence, but refused to re run the item. Larry my substitute bidder was apparently "out to lunch" for that sale so as a result the seller and I both lost out. Whatever, I really believe there needs to be some changes in leadership if anything beneficial to the hobby is to come out of there in my lifetime.

How much did the 17" metal cabinet Predicta go for?

Also how much the early 50s RCA metal cabinet B&W?

I would personally like to find a 50s Admiral color roundie, but so would many others as that one at auction got bid to over $1,000!!

The auction results are posted on the ETF site.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/2018_...n_results.html

Dave Abramson did an excellent job as the auctioneer IMO. He, Darryl, Steve K, and David Roper were dealing the best they could with the new auction format, and folks crowding around them while they were down on the left and right sides, while trying to keep things on schedule. I think they did a fine job. If Dave missed seeing you bid, as well as Darryl, and David who were also looking, I would blame the layout and the people squeezed in too close.

Well, let me give you *my* take on things......

First, the fact that there was no silent auction didn't have any affect on the prices but drive them up from where they would have been had most of the stuff been in the silent auction. The problem was that there were too many sets of the same type, and many of the "heavy hitters" that would have bid on the premium stuff weren't there to do so.

Anyone who took a bath on a set could've set a reserve. I'm in that category, I lost my ass on two that I had in the auction. But I made up for that in what I bought.

We had so many sets come in at the last minute that things got really stupid, and Darryl, Steve, and I did our best to keep up with everything piling in.

After the auction, I heard there was some sort of rumor circulating that the CT-100 with the restored chassis was a real hack job, and that it was basically a train wreck with a raster....which probably dropped the bidders out and pushed the other set high. Don't know, I would have had the seller address the comments if I heard it before the gavel.

Dave A did a great job as the auctioneer. Honestly? The problem was that there were not enough people and people with big vans in the parking lot to handle all of the stuff coming up for bid.

Everyone including myself watched everything that went up on the block live go for top dollar last year, so everyone took that opportunity to bring stuff in.

The only way things would have gone for normal prices or above is if people would've brought less to sell. As memory serves, there were something like 160 lots and maybe 60 guys watching the auction. Pure mathematics drove the price down, not the procedure.

I've been to a number of MAARC radio meets & have both bought & sold at the auctions. (It's been quite long time since I actually attended the auction, though). Typically, the room is stuffed to overflowing with sets & more being brought in right up to the last minute. The last time I went I think there were enough things being sold that everyone in attendance could have taken at least 3-4 things home, maybe a lot more. Who was the audience in those chairs? 1) Sellers. 2) Bystanders with nothing else to do that afternoon but watch. 3) Folks who haven't bought a set in a decade because they already have more than they want, but they might just bid on the right "quality" piece if it strikes them just right. 4) Bargain hunters. 5) Serious bidders, ready to spend thousands. Re-read what Tim wrote: "The problem was that there were not enough people and people with big vans in the parking lot to handle all of the stuff coming up for bid."

Now, on the radio side there is a very serious glut, and it's sad to watch. It's a lot better on the TV side but, still, there are only so many folks bidding. I'd really like to do another ETF convention (I think the one I did was '04) but 2 full days on the road is a bit of a commitment. If I still had my big old van I really think I'd have done it this year. Thing is, that van would have brought still more to sell, with the intention of bringing back very little. I would say, with my 20/20 hindsight, that I'd have driven up the price of that CTC-100 by at least a couple hundred dollars!

First visit to ETF, and first auction of old TVs. I was there to get an education on pricing, some repair techniques, etc. So, newbie opinions will abound in the following wall of text:

During the auction, I did see a few bidders go un-noticed, and the bidding on a few items was re-started when overlooked bidders spoke up. But the thing I noticed about a few of those bidders was that they would hold up their hand just shoulder high, with a crowd of people around them, and there was also a crowd around the auctioneer. Pretty much no chance of being seen. Auctions etiquette and strategy aside, if your bid is not being recognized, speak up, man! Or raise your arm higher. Or do the number paddle thing to improve visibility. I know that sometimes one wants to hide their enthusiasm and 'front' a little bit, but it's to no avail if you're both unseen and unheard. This extends even to an auction assistant who apparently was using hand signals to register his bid with the auctioneer, except the assistant was directly behind the auctioneer -- so of course he wasn't noticed. (He also eventually spoke up, so all was good.) I guess the lesson is, if you want to buy it, speak up.

My opinions on pricing are pretty much as an outsider, and pretty limited in their scope. I thought the Predictas were pretty good deals -- apparently nicer sets (cosmetically) at less-than-Craigslist prices. Saw some younger-than-expected folks spending more-than-expected money. No issue with that at all, just a little surprised. Obviously good for the hobby down the road, too.

Can't tell if there's enough 'bandwidth' at the auction event to curate the equipment a bit more... or adjust the order of presentation. I know stuff comes in with descriptions of condition and performance, and some is listed either as 'parts' or condition unknown. Should those items auctioned in separate streams (not simultaneously) instead of either random, or first-in/first-out? (Looked for the auction list and couldn't find it.) Don't know what previous years' silent auction scenario was like. Don't know if there was a hard cutoff time for auction items or not. Also didn't notice how online bids were integrated. I think there's an opportunity to have the internet stream show more detail on the items up for bid, and less of the sea of humanity around them, which would expand the pool of remote viewers. (That video also should be shown by projector there in the room so everyone doesn't need to huddle around the auction item to see detail.) But again, don't know how many online/absentee bidders there were, aside from those who have registered their dissatisfaction -- which they are completely within their rights to do. Like I said, newbie observations.

I do have some ideas about organization of the equipment in that room, but I don't have the time, money and manpower to back it up, so I'll keep my trap shut on that. I have some areas of my own that are in equal disarray; I know how that gets.

Personally, I thought the auctioneer did a fine job. And having someone who actually knows the sets is far, far better than someone who is a typical fast-talkin' auctioneer with no real product knowledge.

Lastly, Steve needs to wear his badge so newbies can tell who he is (I saw it in the bin at the front desk, but not on him). And badges should have a VK nickname listed (or other sites) if the attendee wants to. (I know some people wrote this in themselves.)

I did learn about a few things, and met a few people. And I'll probably make it back next year, too, as schedules permit. And if I've got things wrong, do say so. Comments are welcome.

On edit: There's another 'assumption' that I had about the auction... I had assumed that running sets would be shown in operation, either in auction preview or at time of bid. Electrical logistics and fire code may stand in the way of that, and sellers may prefer not to show that. But I would think, "Set is working, and here you see it working" would be good for some of the higher-end sets. May have been done on the auction preview part of the site -- work didn't allow lots of time to spend on prep for this event.

A lot of antique auctions I go to the auctioneers do not move around. They stay in one spot and just have flatscreens showing what item is being sold. No crowding around the auctioneer or bidders trying to see what is for sale over peoples heads that way. Items have to be numbered and sold in order. whether that would work here I have no idea.

I enjoyed watching the video and thought everyone did as good as they could. I had to really pay attention as I often couldnt see what was being sold but they announced it. I just kept a browser window open with the pics of the tv's being sold so I could look at them if I wanted too, the higher priced ones.

Matt, I don't appreciate your comments about incompetence at the auction. We allow absentee bidding as a favor to those who can't attend. We are not a professional auction house, we are a group of volunteers who spend many hours organizing and running the convention. If you want to make sure that you get something in the auction, ask a friend to bid for you next time.

I know more than a few mathematicians that would disagree with you. The procedure can and does materially alter realized prices.

There is an anomaly in auction result prices, that has been observed time and time again, in that when substantially similar items are auctioned in sequence, the first will realize the highest price, and the last will realize the lowest. This was in play on Saturday morning. I bought the first RCA 630TS for more than the second.

Also look at the Elli Buk auction, the first Clifton realized the highest price, the final was a relative bargain.

It has also been observed, at least in auction houses like Bonhams and Christies, that prices tend to decline as the day wears on. There is a small but vocal minority that seems to discount this effect, but a substantial amount of research does seem to support this idea. If this is the case, which it appears to be, then auctioning the items of most value first would help maximize realized prices, and thus maximize the amount of profit enjoyed by the museum.

I personally don't care one way or another, and in fact I suspect I was able to do so well on that Remington because the auction was nearing the end. The last private sale I know for a Remington-Rembrandt set was closer to the $1K mark.

In any case, my comment wasn't intended to offend. It just struck me as extremely odd, as someone who attends plenty of classic car auctions, antique auctions, and just about every major Northern Soul and Motown auction, that the highest valued items were auctioned right in the middle. The almost universal practice is to open with the big ticket stuff, in descending order of estimated value.

If a simple tweak has the ability to realize even slightly higher prices, why wouldn't it be implemented? I think the auction went very well, and I liked the elimination of the silent auction. I also think I speak for everyone when I say I appreciate the efforts of you Tim, Darryl, David, Dave A. and Steve K. But like anything else in life, it isn't perfect and there are very small changes that could be made to tangibly improve it.

The Rembrant was is relatively poor condition. I think the $300 sale price was just about right. Many of the other sets did go for below market prices. I'm not sure that changing the order of how they were auctioned would have made any difference.

I wouldn't be so quick to simply dismiss the effect of the order as it is impossible to know one way or another after the fact what effect it may have had.

I'm not just making this up as I go. See these papers that examine empirical evidence to draw the exact same conclusions I've drawn based solely on intuition:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...saBhlIqw_eNiMR

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstrea...iNZhvdRyCSlttX

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...vae5ciFbuUQkCn

In particular, the third link is most applicable to the situation at the ETF. The public value of the set is unknown, and more than likely indeterminate, and the private value predominates.

Take it or leave it; it doesn't bother me, not my show to run. I still think that it is a simple change that could benefit the museum, however.

I somehow get the feeling that some are probably a lot more worried that auction prices are going to de-value their *own* collections and set the mark of the value of sets that they already own and may want to sell.....

I don't recall any buyers complaining....and for a lot of sellers it's just about clearing out the back room, so to speak.

Ben, if you've got a better idea you might want to volunteer for next year's event. I'm not meaning that as a dig, far from it.....there are a group of us that do set restoration en masse that are discussing a major repair effort for sets at the Museum at some time this year.

I second that. We could use your help, Ben.

I think everyone needs to realize what goes into putting this show on. Everyone working the show volunteers to do this and spends days helping out before the show. While a "simple" change may or may not have an impact on the outcome, there are few changes that would be simple.

In the weeks leading up to the auction, Larry spends days starting to get the ETF's sets out and stacked into rows. This year when we arrived a few days before the auction, we spent an entire day taking pallets out of the semi-trailer and putting ETF stuff that was in the auction area back into the trailer. The next day was spent shuffling things around a bit but mostly getting the bid sheets in order and handling new stuff as it arrived. That lasted until 10PM Friday night. This is only partially what goes on to get ready.

The two main comments I've seen here are people not getting recognized by Dave and set ordering.

To the first one, each one of us on auction day has a job to do, and we try to help Dave out by spotting bidders. There was a comment about how other auction houses handle this, and I also have been to many top tier auctions. In them they have bidders assistants spread out through the crowd to latch on to bidders and make sure the auctioneer gets their bids, usually by literally screaming. We don't have this and never will. It is the bidders job to make Dave aware of their bid. Moving your hand slowly to shoulder height in a sea of people isn't going to do it. Loudly calling out your bid and making sure you get acknowledged is your job as a bidder. If you didn't get recognized, you didn't do your job.

On set ordering, perhaps some of the people who thought the order was inappropriate could volunteer to come down on Thursday next year and give us a hand moving literally thousands of pounds of tv's. We can use the help!

There are certainly things we can change after our first year with this new format and welcome positive discussion. We have already discussed having a projector at the front and carrying a camera around as the auction progresses so no one has to leave their seat. (in theory) Keeping everyone seated would go a long way to making sure bidders are recognized, that is if EVERYONE follows this and doesn't stand up. In the end, we need more willing bodies to do lots of grunt work if we are to make any major changes.

If you are not heard, blame yourself! I once was not heard ... so I stood up,
and started screaming. The ETF made a bundle on the resulting bidding battle.

This year, standing up would have made less difference, but a stentorion voice always will. "I bid 4 thousand six hundred dollars"

I suggest a rule that people keep at least 8 feet from the auctioneer, and don't block his view,
well enforced.

I was prepared for a bidding war on a really good 15GP22 ... but did not want another cabinet to take up space I don't have.

I sent an email regarding my willingness to volunteer well in advance of the convention. I don't recall seeing a response to it, though I will admit it is possible that one was sent and I missed it. I have to weed through ~100 to 150 emails a day; things get overlooked.

If my comment offended anyone I sincerely apologize. It wasn't my intent to be glib, and I certainly could have worded it better. Calling the order "moronic" was harsh. I have a tendency to say stupid shit without thinking. I seem to succeed in life in spite of it, certainly not because of it.

As it is, I did help unload Bob Dobush's truck when he brought in all of Jim Cozart's stuff, so I can appreciate the effort involved in moving everything. Especially the projection sets and DuMonts. I would jump at the chance to come down early next year and move stuff.

Regarding the simplicity of auctioning the expensive items first, I don't see how it would have been any harder than having Dave start up front, but if there is more to it than that then again, I apologize. The big ticket stuff was already more or less grouped together up front, thus my confusion regarding the order.

I don't want to pick on Bob Dobush, I've considered him a friend for many years, and he is very valuable to Steve, the museum, and our hobby.

But we sure could use the space he uses for storage in the auction room so that there would be room for everyone to sit down and stay out of the way. We all know the room is too small, perhaps now we'll finally all realize that it's time to do something about it.

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