I can see FM going full digital. It just did in Sweden. The end results are the listening audience has dropped from 10% to 25% as receivers are expensive for both autos and homes (is digital FM subject to Doppler problems like TV?). I listen regularly to AM (talk and music) especially at night by skip. I'll throw one hell of a fit should the "clowns" in DC take AM digital. AM is the "last resort" should all other broadcast communication fail. There are hundreds of millions of operable receivers. Change that and I'll pull the plug on all domestic broadcast wireless listening.

Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet? I would think all that would be needed with these boxes would be for the software to be upgraded for the new standard; they upgrade themselves daily anyway (with a provision to manually upgrade if desired), so any new software will be in place as soon as it is needed.

I hardly think Roku will go out of business in five years (or whatever) just because some new TV standard has been enacted; as I said, when ATSC 3.0 is the new standard for TV broadcasting, taking over completely from ATSC 1.0, Roku's players will keep up with the technology, with little or no interaction required from viewers. Roku cannot afford to let itself become obsolete, as there are probably millions of these players in use worldwide.

Where this idea that "watching TV will be over" eventually, if Hollywood decides to encrypt video streams, ever got started is beyond me. Most Americans do not understand or care about the technical reasons for scrambling video streams or anything else connected with television, so if this ever happens, there will very likely be a huge backlash. Americans like their TV and do not want the government to mess with it.

I do not believe, either, that Hollywood will start encrypting video any time soon. Tell me this: If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video streams, will they be prepared for the sheer number of viewers who will complain loudly and incessantly? I realize that the change to ATSC 3.0 is nothing more than a huge cash grab, but good grief, this is too much. If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video, how on earth will they expect people to watch television, or whatever it may be called in five years, after the standards change? For that matter, will there even be an "ATSC 3.0" standard, say, ten years from now? I believe the FCC just might enact five new standards in that time, each rendering the previous one obsolete and requiring viewers to buy new TVs or converter boxes each time the standards change. People on fixed incomes won't be able to afford that, and will likely stop watching TV, which the networks, local stations, and Hollywood will not like in the least.

Good grief.

Again I dont know much about Roku but maybe there will be flash updates for them to continue working like you said. .If its streaming off the internet It has nothing to do with OTA signals.As far as I know.I do agree with you latter part of your statement.Yes its a game to keep the money ball rolling.Job security for some.Maybe I 'll get a Roku someday but I dont want to pay for any subscription packages from it.

You worry way too much over things you have no control over. Enjoy what you have now, and quit worrying over questions that have no answers.

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The ATSC 3.0 standard only changes the way TV is broadcast over the air. On-line streaming is and has always been an entirely separate technology. NO change to the OTA standard will directly affect streaming. It's entirely separate technology.

However, there are peripheral effects. ATSC 3.0 includes features for auxiliary streams, for example. This could be data to make clickable icons as part of the program, or provide multiple selectable camera angles in sports. The question then becomes if the streaming services will carry any of the ancillary data, not if they will carry the main program or not, which will still be determined by economic/profit considerations, just as today a cable system may carry only a station's main program and not its subchannels. ATSC 3.0 also has very flexible trade-offs of data rate vs. signal robustness in the broadcast signal, so a single transmitter can emit multiple programs (like ATSC 1.0 does) except that the video resolution and signal robustness may be very different for a stream intended for mobile reception vs. an ultra high definition stream intended for use only with a good antenna. Again, when stations are broadcasting multiple streams, a streaming service may carry only certain ones, and might, for example, down-res ultra HD to regular HD.

Since the interface from the streaming service to your streaming box is QAM, carrying internet protocol data, and the interface from the box to your TV is a HDMI cable, neither of these is affected at all by the signal format that is broadcast through the air.

What gets transferred from over-the-air stations to streaming services will continue to be determined by business considerations, not technical ones.

Thank you for your explanation of ATSC 3.0. I realize the standard will not take effect until at least five years from now, but I was simply concerned, much more than I should have been, that I might have to get a new TV when the standard does take over from the current one (ATSC 1.0). My present 19-inch flat screen is almost seven years old and is used daily; it has given me such excellent service (no repairs of any kind required in all that time, and it still gives me an excellent picture using my Roku player, LG DVD player and Panasonic VCR, to say nothing of standard HD TV broadcasts) that I am not even thinking of replacing it at this point in time. My flat screen TV is an Insignia, the house brand of Best Buy. These TVs are by no means top of the line in flat screens, but they are, IMO, very good sets, and I would not hesitate to buy another if I should need to replace mine or just want a larger screen down the road.

Jeffhs,

https://www.techhive.com/article/323...nix-first.html

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/00...atsc-30/282269

https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/h....0-test-market

ATSC 3.0 is in effect now, not 5 years from now. Did you read my above post? I tried to clarify for you, evidently I was not successful. (Beta testing is underway, we are applying to be a beta tester.)

No kidding. Remember AM radio dials with CONELRAD markings? Anyone who has watched Christine has seen them. I rest my case.

I grew up in the Cold War era and remember very well the Conelrad icons on AM radio dials at 640 and 1240, also the Conelrad tests on radio and TV. One of my best (!) memories of the Cold War era (I'll never forget it!) is seeing a Conelrad test on TV in 1963. I was seven years old and just about jumped out of my skin the first time I saw the Conelrad symbol on our 21" Crosley TV. I did not realize this was only a Conelrad test, not "the real deal", and I ran through the living room down the long hall between there and the back of the house, scared out of my wits that the Russians were going to drop a huge bomb on our area of northeast Ohio and blow us all to kingdom come.

BTW, yes, I have seen the movie "Christine", and the tuning scale on the car's radio did in fact have the CD symbols at 640 and 1240, as did all car and home radios made between 1953 and 1963. I have a Zenith C-845 AM-FM table radio, made in 1960, that has these symbols (actually the letters "CD", not the icons themselves) at 640 and 1240 as well. These markings were placed by law on all AM radio dials so that people would not waste valuable time looking for the local Conelrad alert station when local stations went off the air per FCC regulations in effect at the time.

Another reminder of the Cold War era was a YouTube video of a Conelrad radio test gone awry, in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The station was WOWO-1190 and the DJ had just put on a record; suddenly, the sound faded to nothing and a station announcer was heard issuing a Conelrad alert. The alert turned out to have been erroneously broadcast over stations in the Fort Wayne area due to an unfortunate mixup. Do a Google search to see the entire story of this incident, which I am sure anyone who was living in the area at the time will never forget. I live 30 miles outside Cleveland, and grew up in a suburb 15 miles east of the city; however, I don't recall ever hearing any botched Conelrad alerts on local radio stations.

However, in the '70s, someone with a warped sense of humor came up with a musical version of the Conelrad (by then EBS, for Emergency Broadcast System) test, which was later banned and in fact was declared illegal. That the test was sung instead of being read from a script by an announcer was bad enough, but the worst part of that illegal Conelrad test was how it ended: "This concludes this test-----of the Emergency Broadcast System! Did you pass?" I believe that ending, and that the test was made into a singing jingle, was what finally got the jingle banned from American radio, and I don't blame the FCC for doing that, if in fact they did; after all, this was meant to be an emergency alert, meant to be read, not sung, by an announcer. IMO, whomever came up with the idea for this should have been arrested and jailed for attempting to make a mockery of the former Emergency Broadcast System. I'm sure if anyone ever tried to do this with today's Emergency Alert System (EAS), the person would in fact be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

UntiI I read your post, I didn't know that ATSC 3.0 has already been enacted and is now in use, superseding its predecessor, ATSC 1.0. I read the articles your post links to, and that just reinforces what you said: that ATSC 3.0 is being tested in the Phoenix, Arizona market on that area's television stations. If the Phoenix tests go well, other areas' TV stations may adopt the new standard, although such will be entirely voluntary, not necessarily required by law.

Yeesh, I can certainly see why that would be your clearest Cold War era memory, that would have been like a branding iron to the brain.

For sure, I'm just saying that Christine is likely to have introduced many people to the CONELRAD symbol, those people just wouldn't have recognized it at first. The symbol made it onto some early 1964 dials as well as deactivation came too late for design changes.

No kidding, and they would have at least needed a clean pair of shorts.

I don't know if nukes were a threat up here but my 1955 Pye radio scale lacks the CONELRAD symbol. It's a British design but was made at a plant in Ontario so who knows.

I'm waiting for a day that all the DTV's and digital cable boxes become a brick when a special virus effects and corrupts the bios/flash chips in them and make them renderless and no fix available .That would put the numnuts that came up with the system on the spot. lease we have no issues if analog was still here.

The worst cold war incident was the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was about 17 at the time and was scared sh#tless. Many people say, "You don't know how close we came to all-out Nuclear war".
Now we have this goof-ball with the lousy haircut to worry about. :scratch2:

Unlikely to ever happen. Most boxes are Linux based, Linux is hard to write viruses for and the cable companies are a secretive cabal of encryption and proprietary equipment fetishists....A virus would just about have to be an inside job.

There's a B in numbnuts! :D

I'm more worried about the OTA set-top boxes and the newer sets that have ATSC capability. :scratch2:

I doubt you all need to worry much about him. I think a war between the US and North Korea would be something like this:

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...1&d=1513546909

The chances of HDTVs, set-top boxes, DTV converter boxes, etc. being irreparably damaged or even destroyed by nuclear events and so on are extremely slim. As was mentioned, most STBs, DTV converters, and even HD televisions themselves are powered by Linux, which, again as mentioned, is all but impervious to viruses. When new software is installed on a Linux-based computer, the system always asks for the user's password before initiating the software download; these systems do not allow anything to be downloaded without a password, so, again, the chances of malicious software (malware) being downloaded to a Linux-based system are slim to nonexsistent. This system was incorporated into Linux for just that reason: to prevent rogue software from being downloaded and installed. A recent episode of the NBC-TV series "Chicago Med", in which the hospital's entire computer system was shut down by a rogue virus, was probably based on just such a worst case scenario, and may well have been where VK member Centralradio got the idea for his comments.

...

Meanwhile my "valve" components continue to operate without any possibility of EMP damage. Most of my 'puters are Faraday shielded and unplugged.

Sorry.Typo.Numbnuts.Blame the eggnog.LOL..............

Thats good news they are using Linux.They be doomed if they were using Windows.

Never seen the show.Chicago Med.Not into current TV shows.Just thinking ahead what could happen with anything that is digital.It does not take too much to screw it up.Just dont trust it.

The plot of that episode was dealing with ransomware, which is very real and has created serious havoc already. Not just a TV story, this stuff is real life.

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How many years do these players usually last before the software becomes obsolete and/or the processor becomes too slow to keep up with current standards? I upgraded to Roku 2 from Roku 1 about a year or so ago. Both players are still working very well (I tried my Roku 1 with my 22-year-old Zenith Sentry 2 TV the other day, and it still works great), although my Roku 1 is very slow compared to the newer one. If push comes to shove and I must get a new Roku next year, I will (I might upgrade even sooner, as the Roku Streaming Stick is even cheaper than what I paid for my Roku 2), but it seems I will be stuck in an endless cycle of updates--in another year or two, the Roku Streaming Stick will be rendered obsolete and I'll have to buy a new one (even though the old one may still be working perfectly well, if slowly), the player will work a couple more years, and then...here we go again.

Oh well. :sigh: As I stated earlier, the Roku Streaming Stick will cost me even less than a cable subscription (I don't have cable any longer, but must at least have a cable account so the Spectrum/former Time Warner Cable TV app will receive local TV stations), and I may not have to upgrade again for at least a couple of years, or whenever Roku declares the Streaming Stick obsolete (however, they probably will have a newer version of the stick available by then, so the chances are I will probably have nothing to worry about). If I didn't have a DVD player, I'd upgrade to the Roku version that has a universal TV remote, but that remote presently won't operate auxiliary devices such as DVDs; besides, I already have an RCA universal remote that has operated my entire video system, including the Roku, flawlessly for the last couple of years, so having a universal Roku remote would be redundant, to say the least.

One nice thing about the Roku players, IMO, is the basic ones won't empty your wallet and so can be replaced with newer ones at minimal cost, although the more advanced ones go for over $100. I think a lot of Roku owners who have version 4 and up won't be too happy with having to spend another $100+ when the units eventually go out of date.

Well, that's the way it goes, I guess.

I was thinking how it's the same thing with modern computers, after about a decade using them to ride the information superhighway is like driving a car with a plugged cat. Of course the software upgrades cost more than the computers which is one reason I'd prefer to do most other things on a pre-candyland Power Mac given the choice.

...

KFPH’s UNIMAS NOW BROADCASTING ATSC 3.0 IN PHOENIX.

The first to step up to the plate, in what is known as the Phoenix Model Market, is KFPH-CD Channel 35, a local Univision-owned station, in Phoenix, now airing UniMás network programming in ATSC 3.0. Pearl TV Managing Director Anne Schelle made the announcement at the NAB show currently running in Las Vegas.

PBS kids channel 8.4 in Phoenix will be next and currently setting up. Just learned of this today. I can confirm the channel is on the air, but my HD flat panel can’t show it. My recently installed Sony 4K projector is capable of displaying OTA ATSC 3.0 to the best of my knowledge, but I have to install a splitter at the wall to send the rooftop antenna signal. The projector is currently hooked up to display DirecTV and 4K Blu Ray. Will show a screenshot after hook up.

Edit: I have two HDMI inputs on the projector. Looks like I will need a 75 Ohm to HDMI adaptor. I’ve already installed a 75 ohm coax outlet near the projector and the four TV consoles in the back of the room. I’m hoping this will work. If not, we may have to wait for a “black box” adaptor/receiver.

I'm at the NAB convention in Vegas now. 8K displays are everywhere, and are similar in fidelity to looking out an open window... ATSC 3.0 monetization schemes are rampant. Buzzwords include "one encoder per person", as in custom streams to and from everyone on demand. Stock your pantries. Hide your livestock. Bedlam is nigh. :)

I recently read online that the Roku 1 is now considered obsolete; support for it will end in a very short time. Roku's other Internet devices (Roku 2, 3, 4, et al.), however, will continue to be supported until further notice. That the HBO app no longer works on your Roku 1 bears this out, and is only the beginning. You will probably (even likely) notice that, one by one, the streaming apps will stop until nothing works. When everything stops, you will know your Roku 1 is no longer usable. I have a Roku 1 myself, but I am not in the least concerned about it becoming obsolete for at least two reasons: one, I have had a Roku 2 (which still works very well) for over a year, and two, I just purchased a 32" flat screen TV, to which my Roku 2 is connected. I mention this because I had originally planned to use the Roku 1 on one of my analog TVs if and when my 19" flat screen fails; however, since I now have the 32" Insignia FP and will keep the 19" set for a standby unit, I have no use for my Roku 1, which has composite video output. This type of video and audio output is, you guessed it, obsolete, which is why Roku's version 2, 3, 4... Internet devices only have one HDMI port for audio and video output to the television. This was done because analog TV is now obsolete, and most folks now have flat screens. There is just no use for composite audio/video output jacks on Rokus any longer.

Your DVR is likely obsolete (or close to it) as well, if most streaming services no longer work. TiVo is refusing to allow activation of any DVR as old as yours because they cannot be bothered with old technology. Time marches on, and eventually even the newest technology will become obsolete. There once was a joke in computer circles that said a computer (for example; this applies to other technology as well) will be obsolete the second you walk out of the store with it (or get it home). Today, however, that isn't a joke anymore. Technology changes so rapidly that most of it is obsolete (or, again, close to it) shortly after the devices come on the market.

Eight-K? I thought 4K was as far as the television industry was willing to go as far as video resolution was concerned. I had read rumors about 8K eventually taking center stage over 4K, but I dismissed it as just that--a rumor.

I guess, however, it isn't just a rumor after all. If the NAB convention has 8K video displays everywhere you look, the industry must be preparing for that level of video resolution to upstage 4K, eventually shoving that format straight into obsolescence--not unlike how high-definition television made analog NTSC TV obsolete.

Steve Jobs one half joking said “We redesign the iPhone every three years, so customers will have to prepare for this.”

Yup. 8 K televisions are now selling in Japan. I read that NHK plans to introduce limited 8K programming by this December and a full rollout in time for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

ATSC 3.0 4K is now broadcasting intermittently in Phoenix by Telamudo and PBS so far on a test basis. 10 broadcasters are participating.
The public can’t see it yet, just the test committee’s. I can see one ATSC 3.0 channel on one of my sets, but the screen is blank.

I haven't yet heard or read anything about ATSC 3.0 tests in Cleveland, but that could change at any time. As I write this, all seven Cleveland TV stations are still operating under the ATSC 1.0 standard; none of them have made any tests or have announced that they are going to switch to ATSC 3.0 any time soon. The Phoenix area is much larger than the Cleveland TV market, though, so it makes sense that the former would be one of the first markets to run tests of ATSC 3.0. However, I would have expected the Los Angeles market, which is much larger than Phoenix, to have been the first market to test the new standard. Why was Phoenix chosen as the first test area? As I said, it would have made more sense to test the standard in L.A. or New York City since, again, these markets are much larger than any other television market in the US.

There is an unused channel/transmitter in Cleveland that has been and will be used for technical tests.

The choice of market for an initial test of a whole-market adoption plan depends on what broadcasters are there, are eager to cooperate, and how quickly and economically their transmitters can be adapted, how many have to change frequency, whether any currently use easily adaptable broadband antennas, etc. etc. etc.

Remember, this change is accompanied by a channel repack to free up spectrum that has been auctioned to the cell phone companies. The biggest markets will have the greatest difficulty in repacking.

AFAIK no one among the general public, in large markets or otherwise, currently has a television capable of receiving the new signals. The first TV station in the US to broadcast a digital ATSC signal was WRAL in Raleigh, North Carolina in 1996. Read about it here. Not exactly a huge market, but the article even says HDTVs were not available to be purchased until 1998, so it didn't matter. I don't understand why you think it would make more sense for the testing to take place in LA or NY. Once this new standard is ready to go mainstream, I am sure the large markets won't be left behind.

Quoting from the original press release:

“There were a few reasons Phoenix, with more than 20 percent of its 1.8 million TV viewers receiving OTA television, was chosen for the model market project, she said.

“First, we are already testing together for the Verance watermark test,” said Schelle. Another factor was separate ATSC 3.0 interactivity testing Pearl TV has been involved with in the market.

Additionally, the consortium has a good relationship with cable operators in Phoenix, which makes it easier to test MVPD interoperability, she said.

Finally, only a couple of the stations participating in program will be changing channel assignments as part of the FCC TV spectrum repack and those stations are assigned to Phase 1 of the repack, she said. That made it relatively uncomplicated to get an early start in Phoenix.

Participating stations include:

· KNXV (Channel 15), E.W. Scripps Company’s ABC affiliate;

· KSAZ (Channel 10), Fox Television Station’s Fox station;

· KUTP (Channel 26), Fox Television Station’s MyTV Network;

· KPHO (Channel 17), Meredith Local Media Group’s CBS affiliate;

· KTVK (Channel 24), Meredith Local Media Group’s independent;

· KASW (Channel 49), Nexstar Media Group’s CW Network affiliate;

· KTAZ (Channel 39), Telemundo Station Group’s Telemundo station

· KPNX (Channel 12), Tegna’s NBC affiliate;

· KFPH-CD (Channel 35), Univision’s UniMas station; and

· KTVW-DT (Channel 33), Univision.

Phoenix will serve as a testbed for the business models and the consumer testing needed to prepare go-to-market strategies for next-generation television, said Schelle.”

Phoenix was a good choice because of its isolation. This provided the availability of channels for ATSC 3.O testing.

Compare to Cleveland, where Youngstown, Erie, London (ON), Columbus, Pittsburgh, Toledo and Detroit stations all make it difficult to find a channel for test stations that wouldn't case interfere with viewing in other surrounding areas.