The elusive Indextron
 

I was watching this one on that auction place. A rare version in a white cabinet. But with the usual problems. "3/4 of a picture" as described. The hammer went down at $405 and it was only 5 miles from me. Way above my checkbook. Seller found it at a yard sale. Note to self...check more yard sales and be kind to the Indextron I already have.

What is it? A portable TV?

The Indextron was a Sony name for a variant of the Philco Apple beam-index CRT color picture tube from the late 50's that Philco gave up on. Sony ended up with the patent. It was a Watchman-sized SS set at 3.5" or so.

It had no shadow mask and relied on a rear-mounted photocell to track the single-gun beam crossing the vertical phosphor stripes, switching color at each stripe. The photocell monitored the beam position and made the color change as the sweep went on.

Each stripe was separated by a black stripe to prevent cross-color contamination and allowing the clean switch during the black stripe. IE, the beam hitting the red and overlapping in to the green.

Red/black/green/black/blue/black and so on. The beam focus is the most critical to prevent overlap in to the next stripe and illuminating two stripes. Red plus green = yellow, etc.

The big problem was that 25% or so of the screen was black stripes and diminished the brightness. No shadow mask should be a bonus but the black stripe killed any gain. Aside from that problem, it does make a very sharp picture. The other big Sony problem was cheap surface caps. Mine needed around 20 or so replaced to make it operative. This one needs the full re-cap.

Sony only made it for a while in 1988. Most are dead and only a handful have shown up. This is the first white cabinet seen by me.

...

Did this design use UV phosphor stripes as the index reference?
I have never seen one in operation... how good is the contrast?... it would seem that some minimum beam current must be landing on the screen at all times in order for the photocell to detect the index reference stripes, wouldn't that wash out the back level somewhat?

just curious,
jr

IIRC, part of the "lore" of these things is that Sony soon realised they had a "turkey" or "Edsel" of biblical proportions on their hands, & recalled them, & most were destroyed...Very few survived, & even fewer work...

WHITE ONE!!!!!!??????????????? I had no idea they made that set in white... My gray Indextron just fell in lust, and needs a companion :)

Although it's bad etiquette to discuss price & value on items already sold, I have to say I'd be thrilled to get it at that price (assuming funds on hand, of course).

That white one and mine would look great, displayed on the hood of my 1982 Cadillac with the Olds 350 Diesel engine, LOL. Turkeys of the century....

Charles

Aww, shit, Charles, the 350 Weasel was a Paragon of Mechanical Virtue compared to the 262...That morphodite should have never seen the light of day past GM testing labs...

To save a lot of space here, this Wikipedia article does a good job of explaining the original Apple tube and the beam-index tube;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam-index_tube

The photo is my Indextron on the left next to my Sony KV-5000 CRT 5" set. The stripes are obvious.

More on the Apple can be found at Chuck A's website. Lots of original Philco documentation;

http://www.myvintagetv.com/philco_apple_tube.htm

And the schematic of the Indextron is attached if you want to reverse-engineer the thing . The photocell is on the "N" board. Courtesy of Jerome Halpen. There are previous VK threads on the Indextron if you search.

Thanks for all the info! The picture IMHO, shows that these sets were better than I would have expected... the black does not appear to be "washed out" by the "index beam" current... Purity at the edges might have been an issue, but the set does not appear to be a "turkey" either. Gotta find one. :yes:
jr

Hi Guys,

so who is the lucky winner of the US $405.00 Indextron, one of us ?

If he hangs out here, i can give him the full service data (schematic & tune-up), just ask for it or send a PM.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

I seem to remember Popular Science doing a thing on a single gun color tube back in the 70's......... Anyone ever seen it? After reading the Wikipedia page I think the one in PS was the Advanced Apple tube with the photomultiplier.

I think it was a "Turkey" not so much because the concept wasn't sound, but because of Sony's up-til-then uncharactaristic poor execution...Wasn't it about that time that Sony's quality started slipping badly ?

...

It would appear that the concept could have been applied to the "lollipop" tube design that was used in the small "Watchman" series... Perhaps the only way that color might be obtained in such a CRT design. What might have been! :scratch2:
jr

...

Jerome Halphen said that Sanyo made a small TV with this type of tube, and I am certain that I did see a small 3" Sanyo TV in a pink case on a pedestal for sale on eBay a few years ago. I did not know about the Beam Index technology tubes at that time, and did not pay too much attention to that set because it was a Sanyo - I have never been a fan of Sanyo products. I really hope that 1 of these sets surfaces again just to prove that Jerome and I are not crazy!

From Wikipedia:

Sanyo used the bright images to make a new style of tube they called the "lollipop".[12] It used an electron gun arranged at right angles to the display, extending down instead of to the rear. The result was a 3 inch display only 1½ inches deep, although it was several inches long. They demonstrated the system in a small television similar to the Sony Indextron.

Reference 12: David Lachenbruch, "super-TVs", Popular Science, July 1985, pg. 66 ("Apples and lollipops)

http://books.google.com/books?id=lQA...extron&f=false

I have 2 of them Sanyo sets, & as far as I know, they have conventional CRTs...One of mine is Pepto-Bismol pink, the other is ivory...IIRC, they also made 'em in silver & black. Cute l'il fellers-One of mine needs new caps/attention in the horizontal section...They DO have v. good pictures when working properly.

Sandy G - Can you please post a picture of the set. I do remember exactly what it looks like. I can't be sure it was a Beam Index - Jerome believes it is, and that the model number is 30-CTV1

Are you perhaps thinking of the Sharp?... Phil restored one here:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/Sharp3LS36.htm

I just got one in ivory.:yes:
jr

jr tech - I did see that model Sharp on eBay several times, and I do know that it is not a Beam Index - but, I also did see a similar Sanyo with a completely different pedestal.

Cool! Did you once indicate that several viewfinder CRTs were beam index? I assume that these were not lollipop designs, however.
jr

jr tech - Yes, the color CRT viewfinders on the old RCA cameras were Beam Index with a Hitachi made tube - standard CRT configuration, not lollipop design.

Also, here is a link to the Popular Science article that I referenced in an earlier post:

http://books.google.com/books?id=lQA...extron&f=false

You have to scroll up to see the TV and lollipop tube - I have NEVER seen this set.

Duh-Call me Stoopid...Mine are the SHARP 3LS36s as indicated...Nevermind...

Well, I got confused also, so don't feel bad! I got out my ivory one, turned it on and was convinced that it was a shadow mask tube, and was about to post that the Sanyo had a shadow mask, when I realized the TV might have said Sharp on the base... so I grabbed it again... yup, Sharp!:o
jr

"From Sharp minds come Sharp products..."

Hi all,

The Sanyo index tube never made it to market. Only shown as a prototype.

Jerome, Thank you very much for the Indextron Service Manuel and other items. Much appreciated!

I won the auction for the white Indextron. You can see it at my website. Just scroll down .... and you access my entire collection pages 1 to 5 on same site in drop down menu tabs. http://www.visions4.net/journal/test.../page-three-a/

etype2 - Very NICE collection!

You probably broke Jerome's heart with the news about the Sanyo Index Tube. Here is a quote that was posted in another thread by Jerome Halphin:

"Last but not least, Sanyo sold a very limited quantity of the 30-CTV1 4" Beam-Index color TV in the US, 1986. Saw one in the LA area in a pink case, had spent all my $ on a CT-101 and couldn't buy it. Gone forever!"

I know that I saw a set that fits this description on eBay a few years ago - it looked a lot like the Sharp TV referenced above, but with a completely different pedestal. It had a standard style CRT configuration, but I do not know if it was Beam Index. Do you have any knowledge of this set?

Hi Sandy G. Scue me if not up to speed with how this forum works. First off, THANK YOU! Safari: Genius. Sony KV 4000: One of my all time favorites. Panasonic CT 101: Wanted to buy in the day, couldn't afford one. It's amazing, even today. Thanks again, Sandy G.!


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etype2:
Congratulations on winning the Indextron! :banana::banana::banana:
And thanks for the link to your wonderful website...GREAT collection!!! :yes:
jr

Oh, yeah, also have the CT-101's bigger bro-a CT-3311-a 2.75" screen. Think they're supposedly even rarer than a CT-101-Who wants the SECOND smallest color set ever made, after all ?...Then there's the Toshiba CE035, a 3" color set, AM/FM, & detachable micro-cassette called a "Walky", from '83. Only seen one or 2 others like it on Da Bay...And a couple of GE 4CM3326X, a 4" color set-AM-FM-detachable microcassette stereo Box De Bume' from '82...It's amazing to me how much DEVELOPMENT time & money must have been put into these marvels of the Eighties-And I doubt their manufacturers made a dime offa 'em. Then there was the JVC CX-500US, a 4.5" color set/AM/FM/std cassette from '82...Seen it-Used examples- sold under several brand names. These puppies were all Muy Expensivo, I don't remember ever seeing ANY of 'em in a store, I special-ordered my CT-101 in '84, & got "Fish-eyes" shot my way over it. I also don't think any of 'em were on the market for any great length of time, I THINK I remember seeing the 4" GE advertised over a period of a year or 2, but that's it. These little "CRT" guys really weren't ever given a fair chance...And then unceremoniously shown the door when the color "Pocket sets" came out a few years later...

jr tech,

Thank you. Have to say, it was Jerome who alerted me to the auction. I probably would have missed it.

crtfool,

THANK YOU. "30-CTV1 4" Beam-Index color TV in the US, 1986" You got me going. If found, would be rarest of the rarest! :-)

Edit: Do you mean this one? http://www.ericwrobbel.com/books/rom0609.htm

If the Sanyo prototype made it to market, I think it would have been designed much like the Sony Watchman flat TV's of that period. The prototype shown was much like this, with the gun inline and below the screen.

Here is a photo of the Sanyo beam index tube prototype: http://books.google.com/books?id=lQA...n%20tv&f=false

etype2 - The link you gave is for the Sharp - I have seen that 1 several times. The TV that I saw a few years ago - before I knew about AK / VK, before I knew Jerome, and before I knew about Beam Index - definitely was a Sanyo, it definitely was pink, and the pedestal was like a bent boomerang with no electronics in it. I do not know the model number, or if it was even a Beam Index - according to Jerome's description, it could be the TV that he was looking for. This definitely is a mystery that needs to be solved!

crtfool,

I searched Sanyo Electric Global website- History- Time line 1980's, found no announcement of a beam index tube. Very curious, I will continue search.

When I first saw the Popular Science article about the Sanyo color lollipop prototype, I was quite skeptical, thinking that the picture showed the common Sony 04JM monochrome lollipop CRT.
Looking more closely, it appears that the gun on the Sanyo is larger, the tube is thicker and the deflection angle may be less than the Sony (picture 2). I guess that I am more or less convinced that the tube in the article was unique. :scratch2:
jr

I have no doubt that the reporter who went to that electronic show in Japan, 1985 as reported in the Popular Science article, actually saw a working prototype of the Sanyo beam index prototype. The reporter interviewed Sanyo representatives.

If it went to market as promised in 1986 or later, there should be a paper trail evidencing this.

That is why I'm intrigued by Jerome's sighting. I want it to exist.

So do I! And, If 1 ever does come up on eBay, I really hope that Jerome gets it because it is HIS Holy Grail.

Anyway, thanks for all your effort and research.

You are very welcome, crtfool.

And thank you to the members for your comments and Jerome for your help.

Time for me to bow out. :-)

Hello Gentlemen,

Interesting thread!

Here's an article from Popular Science Nov 1986 titled "Pocket TV Survey" where the Sanyo is mentioned.

It's only a TV, but chasing an elusive item is in a way more fun that actually owning it.

Story: the Popular Science article mentions the name of the Sanyo product manager at the time the TV was introduced to market (Chuck Davis). Two years ago, i managed to locate the guy in his current job, called him up & tried to learn some useful data on the product. Well, 24 years later, he didn't remember much but gave me a contact at Sanyo HQ japan of an American working as Coordinator, Global PR Relations (Aaron S. Fowles).

I made contact. Mr Fowles searched the Sanyo Museum at the Tokyo HQ and reported that there was no trace whatsoever of the 30-CTV1. End of trail (for now).

Years before (2000-2004) i queried all Sanyo US locations: Compton, Calif Main office & Sales), Forrest City, Arkansas, the former US factory and now TV spares. Results: nada. One old timer on the factory floor vaguely remembered the 30-CTV1 but it was never assembled in America.

I watch Yahoo! Japan from time to time. From our contact in Tokyo "TV Doctor" this model was never sold on the Japanese domestic market - because of high price maybe, Popular Science quotes the TV as having a US $500.00 recommended retail price, quite a sum in 1986.

Other micro-TV related items:
- the pretty incredible A04-JGM09X 1.5" color CRT used in the CT-101
- 2 x screen closeups of the CT-101

Although not a micro-TV, i acquired recently a Sony XEL-1 OLED screen, will soon post pictures on PhotoBucket.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France