Admiral record changer help
 

Please excuse me for being a noob when it comes to phono's, but my 1963 Admiral record changer needs a new needle. I looked on the V-M Audio Enthusiasts page, and I saw a bunch of needles and cartridges. They all looked the same. I intend to play new records on this thing, and I want it to sound good, and not destroy my records.

You need to find the make and model of the cart to find the styli. 70's and later carts almost always are labeled, but earlier ones can be spotty.

I got the Admiral record changer cleaned up tonight, and I finally figured out how to use it. The problem is that it sounds horrible. Almost no high end and there is almost no left channel. I got a better picture of the underside of the tone arm, so hopefully somebody can help me find the right cartridge and needle.

Here is the clean record changer.

Do you know the model of the Hi-Fi / Stereo ? It looks to be a fairly common ceramic cartridge and needle for back then. I could look up the Sam's on it, if you have some numbers.
Ed

Here ya go. Good news y'all! I've been listening to some records to see if the changer would work without assistance, and it did! It changed from ELO to Loggins and Messina with no problem.

From what I found your changer is a RC7 series. It's listed in sam's folder 529-3. There are over ten different cartridges used in that series. If you can find the cartridge number, we could find the correct neddle. :yes:

Well my record finished playing, and when I went to put it back in the sleeve, I noticed a mysterious sticker behind the tonearm.

Also, I got a better picture of the needle and cartridge.

I couldn't find any Admiral numbers that match your cartridge. Your cartridge number matches closer to the Astatic numbering code, N41 SD and the matches your picture.

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to get a NOS Astatic N41SD, but I still don't know what cartridge to get. I assume I'll need both to make it sound really good?

If you get another Astatic, the cartridge number is 17d. It's a ceramic 3 gram, 350 millivovlt type. The needle is N41-sd. the sd denotes diamond and saphire. The frequency response is 20 - 20kHz.

http://www.canadianastatic.com/uploa..._reference.pdf

I used a old Zenith phono cross ref to find the Astatic number then googled Astatic.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know. I looked on the VM audio site, and the closest I could find was an Astatic 17, not, 17D. Do you think it will fit? Like I said, I'm very new to phonographs, and I don't really know much. But I'm always learning.

If you found an Astatic 17, that's great. It'll work fine.

My 1964 Admiral console has the same record changer. The cart was a bit different than TUD's, a Sonotone 9t and its a great match to the preamp circuit which uses a 6AY11. Unfortunately the goofy stylus pops off the cart sometimes. My tire is a bit worn and it won't change records.

One of my Motorola consoles has the Astatic 17, a fine choice.

The record changer in mine works, but it definitely struggles sometimes during the changing process. When I took the platter off to clean it, I noticed a rubber tire. Does that play the same roll as the idler tire in a VCR? Is that responsible for making it slow to change?

The rubber idler wheels dry out and slip, and the problem gets compounded by dried out old grease everywhere in mechanism which more or less turns to glue. It looks brown or yellow and gets sticky. Idler wheels can sometimes be revived with rubber renew, or else needs to be replaced (voice of music website is a good source for new ones) and old grease has to be removed and replaced. I use isopropyl alcohol as a solvent to remove old grease, and a thin layer of automotive bearing grease to replace.

If you try and stop the turntable with your finger it should fight back a bit, if it stops too easy the idler is bad. If the idler is good and mech is slow then you need new lubrication. In a typical old changer usually both things are wrong.

I cleaned the idler wheel and the underside of the platter with alcohol, and now the turntable spins absolutely way too slow. I put on my favorite record while waiting for my show to come on, and the speakers vomited out very flat and very slow music. Any ideas??? The record changing process is much more quick, but actually playing records is a joke at this point.

Might try cleaning the idler with Goof Off. I've had luck dissoling thin layers of slippery petrified rubber off with it.

A friend of mine swears by automotive belt dressing spray, and I've seen the improvements he has achieved.

The idler tire is actually still rubbery and pliable to an extent, and the platter does not easily stall when I put my finger on it. Like I said, I cleaned the tire and platter thoroughly with alcohol, and a whole bunch of that old black rubber came off.

Update - I cleaned the idler and platter with alcohol a second time, and added a minute amount of 3-N-1 oil to the platter bearing, and it is playing better now. I synced up the song that was playing with the same song on Youtube for a quick test, and it is still lagging behind, but it is not as noticable now. Mind you, I play the saxophone, and I have to be able to listen and determine whether a note is sharp or flat, so I'm pretty good at hearing if something is wrong.

The best way to find out if it is on speed is to google phono stroboscope disc, and print an image of one. If you have a 60Hz light source like non-electronic ballast fluorescent lighting or LEDs use it to watch the spinning disc. At exactly the right speed the lines on the disc will appear to stand still while the thing is spinning.

usually if plays too slow, but speed is steady (idler not slipping) then its usually the motor bearings, the lubricants get gummy. have to take the motor off, take it apart, and soak the old oil out of the porous bearings with a good solvent. it can take several tries to get it all out. then relubricate sparingly. If the motor bearings are gummy, good change most of the lubricants in the other mechanisms need cleaning out as well. Just normal maintenance after 50 years.

I'm rapidly losing patience with this record player. It's completely useless as a changer because it changes two or three records at a time. I tried switching the order of the records, and it did nothing. Is it possible that the little piece inside the spindle is moving too slow? I just wanted to have a nice relaxing evening with Loggins and Messina, (in the correct order) but instead I just got pissed off. This thing is red-lining my patience-ometer.

most record changers that old need a teardown to get all the old gummy lubricants out of the mechanisms. just normal maintenence after 50+ years. Often the rubber motor mounts are bad, sounds like your idler is still good enough though.

+1 to what everyone has been saying reguarding a good teardown and relube of the record player.
I have worked on at least 10 record players like this with the changers on them and every single one I worked on I had to completely tear down the record player and then clean off the old grease and then put on new grease and then put the unit back together again and usually the record changer works fine again after that.
I'm probably only a few years older than you (I'm 28 years old) and even I understand after working on these old record changers for 15+ years that they will almost always need the same teardown and relube after 50+ years.
Its kind of like a car, you wouldn't expect a 50+ year old car to run properly with its original motor oil and transmission fluid in the car would ya?
NO you wouldn't you would first change the oil and the transmission fluid and any other lubricants on that 50+ year old car before you drive it or else the car will not run right or even perhaps blow your car up.

Perhaps if you don't have enough patience to overhaul and restore a vintage record player then perhaps records aren't your cup of tea, either that or just buy one of those newfangled Crosleys then you wouldn't have to worry about a sticky changer mechanism or idler tires to go bad.

Just a thought... :scratch2:

I picked up one of those high-class Crosleys. Looks like new and even had the stylus guard on it. Paid a buck or two for it, just for S&G's. It seems like the wrong AC adaptor was included. Very low volume, even with the proper adaptor.

Well that's to be expected with any of these reproduction record players these days, POC Chinese made record players aren't worth the wood and plastic they're made out of, in fact if Mr. Crosley were to see his name being used on those crappy cheap record players I think he'd roll over in his grave, considering Crosley was originally a very good and respectable company that made very decent radios and record players back in the day and even the "cheaper" AA5 designed Crosley radios were still considered a cut above the rest back then because of their cabinet designs and what not. :yes:

Also, your Admiral changer was called the Ensign. Admiral made their own record changers for some years until the early 1970's, when they switched to BSR models.

I've done several RCA 45 changers and a number of full-sized models since this post and a problem I've encountered and dealt with that hampers speed despite a good idler is bad lubrication in the motor bearings. Sometimes you get lucky and just adding lube will fix it, but other times it is more work....When the old lube is turned to glue sometimes you have to mark the motor parts (so it goes back together exactly as was with no reversals), take the motor apart, soak the bearings in lighter fluid for a day to dissolve the old gunk then add a few drops of 3-in-1 and reassemble. One of the youtube videos on the RCA RP-168 or RP-190 explains the process well.

Do not use ANY 3 in 1 oil except for the blue can motor oil. Bad to gum up easily otherwise (which is what you do not want). Zoom Spout turbine oil is also a good oil for turntable motors. I use the latter.

I agree that Zoom-spout is necessary in every record player toolkit. 3 in 1 type and sewing machine seems like appropriate vintage stuff to use BUT it is generally sloppy and attracts dirt.

I used to HATE doing record changers :sigh: during the 80s. I was a lot happier working on the carry-in 9" to 20" TVs. The road tech pulled the changers from consoles and brought back to the shop for the bench toads. as you can guess, peak season was October-December

:boring:It was like taking out the trash and our service manager had a no-fail 8-step method we used on BSR, Magnavox and RCA units pulled from consoles and brought back to the shop by the road tech. "Just do it" I was often told when I verified it was operating correctly, already looking for a new stylus (often in vain) in the dusty parts drawers.

Lubriplate or white lithium grease ( aka GC's Phono lube) is mandatory for all sliding parts. Go in ONCE with your best stuff and you'll own the repair. Just do it all, forgetting anything will make you repeat those annoying processes.

Isopropyl alcohol and alternately, lacquer thinner, Q-tips and shop towels are all that is needed to clean off dirt-encrusted grease. it also does a great job on motor capstan "stepped shafts" plus the inside of the platter along idler track

Rubber-Renu is highly reactive oil of wintergreen and seems to work on most but NOT ALL idler pulleys to remove glaze. Only slightly more effective than IPA. If the pulley has deep fissures in the rubber, it probably overheated when the player motor was left on when it stalled, basically finishing off any chances for a lasting revival.


Bottoms-up work first

1- Mandatory motor maintenance per Olorino in post #22 - mark positions of every nut, 6-32 screw, washer, spacer and bearing bracket before you take ANYTHING apart.

2- Clean the changing mechanism with IPA and shop towels, and yes, you must take cycle gear-wheels off shafts or sliders out completely. Sliders on V-M players are tricky but you will not be successful without a thorough disassembly - cleaning and lube. trip levers that slide must be cleaned and having another player along side to compare whats out of place or bent cannot be understated.

Topside last

1- Pull off the platter. Most are easy but on BSR's - spindle grease turns into JB weld, and must be soaked with lacquer thinner or worse to get it loose, spin-able and removable. I have yet to try "weasel piss" (WD40 or PB blaster) as it is hard to pinpoint.

2- Take idler pulley off and give it the business with IPA and oil the shaft/spring washers. Check alignment with the motor shaft thru all speed settings. If it does not land in the middle of a step, motor mount grommets are flat/gone OR if solid, it may be improper idle shaft washer placement.

3- Move center pin in/out, up and down while dousing with IPA to get ALL the crud out that causes it to drop two records. The tiniest bit of oil is all this part needs.

4- Platter spindle bearing cage and washers need a thorough soaking and de-gumming, here we had success with lacquer thinner also. Pay attention to sandwiching the bearing cage between TWO thin washers. They like to stick and drop off during disassembly. To keep from hunting parts like those washers and spindle balls that bounce off the bench, do your disassembling in a dishwashing tub or big cafeteria tray to catch anything that cuts loose.

5- The grand finale included checking speed with strobe disc under the super-helpful 8-foot fluorescent lamps operating on uber-flicker magnetic ballasts. You also had to try all record sizes and verify it worked on the shop 45 adapters, run through all cycles and at 78 (or 45) rpm to distribute all the oil and exercise every operation.

It always worked, no call backs, all the more reason to love Magnavox and RCA changers in particular. I had to re-learn the whole process for Voice-of-Music changers, like what almost all my Motorola and Zenith tube models use.

I've tried to post this somewhere accessible and have received no response...

http://videokarma.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=18

It is all scanned and ready. And big.

I'd like to read that.

And I'd like to post it. It's too big without special dispensation.
Also tried at the digital document section of AK, and got no response.
I can send a link, but I'd prefer it not be 'in the wild'.