1961 hand held color tv?
 

Here is a photo on Ebay supposedly of a hand held battery operated color set from 1961? I knew they were working on such a unit in the mid to late sixties but I don't know about anything that early. Can anyone verify this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Press-P...item35bb2a4c78

Non-working mockup? Can't read all of the text on the back, but it tells people not to rush to their RCA dealers, since this is an "advanced idea, possibly for the decade of the 1970s."

Phil Nelson

Love how its in B/W...

That is likely one of several mock-ups of an idea (among others) being worked on by RCA engineers at the time and made to be presented by David Sarnoff to the stock holders at the annual shindig. There is mention of this practice in the Sarnoff biography (if I recall correctly; haven't read that book in over 20 years).

Too bad RCA DIDN'T follow thru on this & bring out a hand-held color TV C. 1966...Take THAT, Sony, Panasonic, et al...

I think I can read the following:

Just another transistor radio? Please! This is a COLOR
television [?], [personalized?] and battery operated, which
[can?] also [offer?] [stereo?] radio programming for [outdoor?] use.
But don't rush to your favorite RCA dealer for [one?]. It's [an?]
"advanced idea" possibly for the decade of the 1970s, to
be shown by RCA at the summer home furnishings market
at the Merchandise Mart next week. Admiring the set is
Chicagoan Frances [?]

Made the cover of May, 1963 Mechanic Illustrated.

See photo: http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...dpress-525.jpg

I have a bridge for sale...:D
Phil

Look closely at the AM radio dial. "XM" AM radio? I didn't know XM radio technology was that old.

Just another transistor radio? Please! This is a COLOR television receiver, pocket sized and battery operated, which will also offer stereo radio programming for outdoor use. But don't rush to your favorite RCA dealer for one. It's an "advanced idea" possibly for the decade of the 1970's....

I believe RCA had a marketing campaign during this time featuring several items the public could expect for sale in the next decade. I recall a portable color set was included in the list of items under development, but can't remember if it was like the one in the ebay ad or not.

LOL! :music:

Say what you will about Sarnoff, he did pour millions into R&D at RCA. I agree that he probably needed things to "dazzle" the stockholders at the meetings, and this little TV was as good a prop as any, I guess. :scratch2:

Yep, NO CEO could have gotten away w/such a trick today as Sarnoff did w/color TV back in the Fifties...He woulda been PROMPTLY been handed his walkin' papers...Nowadays they want their money back ASAP, & color TV took til what, 1970 or so B4 it really became profitable...15 years...NO board would stand for that today...

here is advertisement I remember back in the day: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...?click=main_sr

No doubt a prop as if this was a working unit, RCA would have marketed it if it looked that good as seen in the picture. As stated earlier, I'm sure it was some form of propaganda for the stock holders. "Look what we're doing now!!!" If that was a "REAL" working unit which I doubt and no one else knows about either, we would have already known about it through RCA's history of color television.

Wait a moment here--how did they get all of those tubes in that unit??

Julian KJ4NCW

...

Remember that in 1961 they were still into 21" round tubes with no rectangulars in sight. I doubt seriously their technology at that time could have produced the tube that ETF has at that time. It looks like something from the later '70's to me if that early. Remember SONY had that flat CRT in their "Watchmans" only in B&W in the '80's some 25 years later. COLOR flat tubes in 1961?? I don't think so as they were not that advanced. B&W I may hardly believe that, but not color. There was too much geometry in that tube to understand in 1961.

I would like to know what they were doing then if I am wrong here. There were no IC's back then and only IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!! Perhaps there was a huge backpack to go along with it! Even so, CRT design was not that advanced for color back then. OK guys, prove me wrong here!!

BTW, just where would the shadow mask have been???

Julian KJ4NCW

...

I agree, The "TV set" shown in 1961 was likely pretty much an empty box mock-up to demonstrate a concept. The lollipop CRT at ETF looks like a later (late 70s I think is a good guess) engineering special that likely could produce an image. Careful examination of the CRT at ETF should reveal if it was Monochrome or color. I would guess monochrome.

Agree... If the ETF prototype CRT was color (doubtful IMHO), It would have taken a ton of electronics to produce proper geometry and convergence, but for engineering work, a rack full of special driver circuits could have been used.

Good question... and how would convergence of the three beams been obtained?... an almost impossible task, IMHO. Beam index technology would seem to be more practical.
By the mid 80s, A lollipop style color CRT using beam index design may perhaps have made into an actual product... some discussion of the Sanyo Prototype/Product about halfway through this thread:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=248210

jr

I have a 1966 Motorola annual report. Motorola developed a flat screen CRT for hospital use in 1966. Interestingly, some 16 years before the famous Sony FD 210 Watchman flat CRT.

See photo and text from report: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...creen-tv-1966/

All I can say is we didn't know about the SR71 blackbird for a long time and companies back then tended to keep new stuff on the back burner and release it slowly. Maybe someone who worked at Rca during that time would be able to shed some light on this.

I don't think ANYBODY ever developed a flat COLOR CRT.Time ran out on 'em. And I doubt now one will ever be developed. I REALLY do wish those dreadful flat-screen thingies had NEVER been developed...CRTs 4Evah...(grin)

Very interesting... Did Motorola actually claim to have developed a flat CRT for the unit? Do you have any details?

A few things come to mind:
!. Since the unit is on a long cable, the complex driving circuitry could have been located apart from the display, making for a compact unit, even in the era before complicated ICs, so perhaps it would have been possible. :scratch2:

2. Perhaps the body of the unit could have contained a small monochrome CRT and a mirror/lens system similar to the Philco Safari. Again could have been possible with remote electronics.

3. The caption says "talk to a nurse and operate a combination radio-television set"...Which may be an indication that this was just a "nurse call button" combined with a fancy radio/tv remote control... but it sure looks like a display screen.

Scratching my head over this one, thanks for posting it!
jr

Yes, it's interesting to compare a Sony 8-301W, a B/W transistor TV that actually shipped in 1961. I suppose it's about as small as you could make a practical TV from available components at the time -- quite a bit bigger and heavier than the "palm sized" mockup in the RCA photo!

http://antiqueradio.org/art/Sony8-30...dsArranged.jpg

http://antiqueradio.org/art/Sony8-30...sInstalled.jpg

http://antiqueradio.org/art/Sony8-301WFront.jpg

Philco's Safari had a different form factor and used a much smaller CRT, but it was a real brick, as well.

Phil Nelson

The FIRST really, REALLY small color set was the Sony KV-4000/4001 from 1980....And then the 1.5 Panasonic CT-101, from '84. Now, Panasonic DID have the Mica 1 in 1969, that l'il 1.5" set...But that was a LONG way from '61...They could have benefitted from the space race & all the miniaturisation of components by then.

Alright guys, hold it a moment here, you have been fooled or didn't look at the picture well enough for that 1966 Motorola hospital flat screen. Also the title may be bogus as well. Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!! Look at the unit behind the bed which shows that. Flat screen TV?? Where?? It isn't shown funny thing so the title could have been typed by anyone unknowingly. Looks like a plain ordinary article touting the hand held nurse call with TV controls in it that have been used for decades and is still in use today.

Assuming it "was" a TV in itself, it would not be appropriate for many hospital patients and would have been cost prohibitive.

That's what I thought as well, just a control unit, but that sure looks like a display screen about 3.5 inches. In 1966 the Intertel Corporation in Los Angles demonstrated a working two sided flat 6 inch color TV. You could actually view it on both sides. So the advanced circuitry was available in 1966 to create the prototype flat color CRT. This makes me believe the hospital TV is real.

See photo of working 6 inch flat color CRT. http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

The key words in the Motorola description: "all in one unit" and "patients ... can operate a combination radio-TV ... "

One more photo of the working 6 inch two sided flat color CRT prototype in 1966: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

That's what I thought at first, but I remember seeing formed metal speaker grills (with very tiny punched holes) on vintage Motorola 2-way radios that had a similar appearance. Notice the odd contour and shape of the "screen"... I now think I am seeing a speaker/microphone, not a CRT face.

jr

I had not looked at the Motorola link until I saw your comments. Indeed, why did anyone think that was a TV screen on the device in the picture? It is an all-in-one "control plus nurse-call device", exactly as hospitals have since used for decades, if I remember from the last time I was in a hospital room (visiting or staying, quite a while ago in either case). Such a device (without a TV screen) was newsworthy in 1966 in any case; the first time I stayed in a hospital after birth was for pneumonia in 1968. My mother rented a TV for me from the in-house company, that was wheeled into the room.

Point well taken. Probably not a TV. That pointed screen threw me also. Why have that shape if a viewing screen.

My explaniation, I'm 66, been lucky only in a hospital once and that was in 1957. I remember a control unit to call nurses with a built in radio in that hospital. When I saw this photo and description, for 1966, what's so special unless it had a TV. That would make it news worthy.

In 1966 Motorola was trying to develop a rectangular screen which they did--a 23EGP22 by the National Video Corporation which we all know what it turned out to be. Their resources were focused there and certainly not on a flat screen. The guy I worked with was a Motorola field rep then and flat panels/screens were never discussed or even heard of except as a small blurb in Popular Electronics but only as an artists' concept.

My mistake here, Motorola began the rectangular tube movement in around 1963-4 through the National Video Corporation who was about bankrupt and took on the task of developing a rectangular CRT. They were plagued with cheap labor and some labor issues and their cleanliness was below par and their best 23EGP22 was "soft" and not very crisp. A "flat" panel was not even in their picture in this time frame nor did their finances allow engineering such an item for what their goal was.

Weren't rectangular sets with 23E[ww]GP22s being sold by Motorola in 1964? The only rectangular color innovation (if you can call it that) of 1966 that I can think of is the Portacolor.

The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.

I wrote the comment for my website. The photo and text were copied as found from Motorola's 1966 annual report. The top portion very much looks like a display screen in that photo. When JR Tech mentioned it was probably a perforated speaker grille, the light bulb went off and I agree, it probably is not a TV because of the pointed shape of that grille. If you re-read the text, it says "all in one unit" and "patients can operate a combination radio-TV". Since a nurse call device with radio have been around for decades, even back to 1957 when I was last in a hospital, I thought Motorola had come up with a new innovation. Also, Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

All the sets that Sandy references are color, so what is the Mica 1? Is it a color set - I never heard of it - or is he referring to the TR-001 B&W set?

FWIW, my take on these demonstrations...

1. I believe the 1966 Motorola prototype existed...a talented Engineer with the skill of a watchmaker could have built something like that. About the same time frame, an engineer that I knew built a tiny battery powered oscilloscope that worked, using a 3/4 inch diameter electrostatic CRT.

2. I believe the 1966 Sinclair demo, again a conventional electrostatic deflection monochrome crt and fairly conventional circuitry. A real product followed shortly.

3. Of course the 1970 monochrome Panasonic was a real product and even contained an IC to reduce the amount of discrete circuitry, as well as a conventional design magnetic deflection CRT.

4. At that time, all of the above would have been fairly simple exercises compared to making a flat CRT for a tiny TV set, and color would add extreme complexity to the design. I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

5. Perhaps in the mid 80s, Sanyo came close to introducing a beam index "lollipop" CRT color set, but I think by that time sets with color LCDs close to becoming a reality...it was simply too little / too late for that product.

Just my 2 cents,
jr

RCA had what it referred to as "TruFlat" color TVs in the late 1980s or early nineties. The screens of these sets may have been flat, but the sets were still NTSC analog. I wonder whether these TruFlat sets had special or custom-made CRTs (which I seriously doubt), or if the flat screen was part of a projection system in which the image from a small color tube was projected onto the screen to create the illusion of a flat picture.