CRT TV vs. flat screen image quality
 

I will likely be using my 20-year-old Zenith 19" CRT TV to replace my Insignia flat screen when the latter eventually quits. Will I still get the same great picture on the older TV as I am now getting on my flat screen? I ask this because I read somewhere (don't remember where :no:) that CRT televisions will produce better pictures with DTV signals than flat screens, the reason being that CRTs use scan lines, rather than pixels, to create the images.

Thanks.

I believe that. At the end of December, I bought a brand new KCPI converter box and hooked it up to my 1989 Zenith for my dad to use instead of the Insignia phlat pannel. That Zenith has a razor sharp crystal clear picture, and the phlat pannel always had all that garbled digital stuff.

CRT's are a hell of a lot more gentle with scaling than flat panel sets do. Most panels have AWFUL digital scalers which leave lots of weird artifacts and noise when upconverting lower resolution or interlaced video. Now mind you back in the CRT days the same would apply with video comb filters and dot crawl.

At any rate, you won't see me with a phlat pannel set. I detest them.

As much as spell-check? :)

Chip

Its all in what you like. I have crt set in the house and one Visio flat screen, but I get 1080i over the air with a digital converter box. I will keep the crt sets and if the vision goes out. I will replace it or use a back up. I think its just hard for people to let the past go. I guess for me to live in the world is to have one foot in the past and one in the future and then i can make it the present.
that's just my thinking on it.

Was the KCPI converter box, current production or new old stock?
I have one somewhere, that I picked up at a thrift. It seems to work OK. Not as good as a Zenith/Insignia or a Digital Stream.

I've never seen a CRT with a picture anywhere near as good as my Panasonic plasma in 1080p. NTSC was nicknamed Never The Same Color for a reason, and CRT geometry is especially bad compared to any flat panel. I like old TVs as much as anyone here but I can't support any argument that says a good CRT has a better picture than a good flat panel. Only possible exception being last gasp 16x9 HDTV crt's, but those are rare and really heavy!

Dieseljeep, I'm pretty sure it was is current production as they had dozens of them sealed in the box.

As far as phlat skreen sets are concerned, I'm so used to watching a real TV, that watching a phlat skreen looks very distorted and foreign (literally) to me. My hatred for phlat skreen sets cannot be described using real words.

Dave, I am almost 60 years old and was watching CRT TVs long before there were any such things as flat screens. When I got my Insignia flat screen almost five years ago, I had no trouble whatsoever adjusting to its picture quality compared to the RCA CRT TV it replaced.

One of the only reasons I am going to replace my FP with my old Zenith Sentry 2 table model when the FP quits is simply because CRT TVs are admittedly and in fact much more reliable than flat screens ever were. No one ever had to be concerned with having to replace a CRT set every couple of years (unless they wanted a new one or were replacing a worn-out 20+-year old set), unlike flat screens which seem to have a much shorter life span.

There are CRT TVs in use today that are 20 and more years old, and are still going strong. My Zenith Sentry 2, which was a birthday present to me when I turned forty years old in 1996, and an RCA CTC185 I bought when I moved here 16 years ago are two examples. Neither TV had ever had any service work done on it, except for a problem with a loose antenna connector on the RCA set which was repaired under warranty. The Zenith has never had to have any service work on it whatsoever in all its 20 years, and it still makes an excellent picture on its original CRT (even though the set's tube was made during the era of "bad" Zenith picture tubes in the late 1990s; I swear I must have gotten one of the good ones, simply by the luck of the draw), which is one reason I will use it again when the flat screen quits. The other is I have liked Zenith TVs (and radios) for decades.

I don't know why you hate flat screens so much (aside from their very short lives as compared to CRT TVs), but you had better get used to them since they are all anyone can get these days--unless you want to get a used color or B&W television with a CRT, like your RCA CTC25 or your latest acquisition, your Zenith 23" delta-gun color console. (I had relatives, now deceased, who owned just such a Zenith in the late 1960s and liked it; they used it for years before buying a new 25" Zenith console in the mid-1970s.)

Finally, why do you call CRT TVs "real" televisions? Flat screens are just as much televisions as the older CRT sets are, since they receive and reproduce signals broadcast from television stations using an antenna, cable or satellite, although I will admit that FPs do bear more of a resemblance to computer screens than to traditional TVs and are not much to look at when they are turned off, unless they are installed on or in an entertainment center cabinet or stand.

Flat screens and digital TV are all the current generation of young TV viewers know. Mention to these kids, many of whom are too young to remember CRT TVs or the NTSC television era, that there were such things as televisions with something called "picture tubes" that received pictures over the air with an antenna, years and decades before flat screens, cable or satellite TV, and they might not believe you; in fact, some of the younger ones might laugh full in your face and say you were making all of this up.

Too bad Philco is out of business. They would've called their sets"Philco Phlats". :boring:
Regarding the HD converter, does yours have the built in power supply or the wall-wart AC adaptor. Mine has the standard AC cord and the built in power supply.

All of my TV's here are CRT except the computer monitors here which one is on this computer that I'm sending this post.I notice I get alot of artifacts on my CRT sets from the cable TV box and it looks like a internet stream or downloaded MPEG1 file at times.Very blotchy pixelize scene movements .The Dell 22 inch here on my Dell is crisp and clear with the videos and graphics.It must be the cheap cable boxes of they compressing the channels to the max to get more channels.The analog signal cable looked 100 percent better then the digital cable signal.Again the public got screwed.

BUT....with all of the negative baggage that comes with DTV....there is ONE advantage...a WHOLE lot more channels !! I have a LOT of vintage tv channels in this area...Me tv, COZI, THIS, Movies channel, Decades, Grit, Get-tv Comet , Buzzr,and Bounce. Not ONE was available on Analog tv. I watch these channels MORE than ANY others..PERIOD !! Yes--DTV is finicky, troublesome and not great picture detail...BUT it is the ONLY way--to get this many OTA channels...which I have LONG gotten used to.

It depends on what you're feeding it - SD or analog signals the CRT is going to do better. If it's HD programming, the LCD will blow it away.

The only way I can explain it would be this. Suppose your entire life, you have driven body-on-frame American cars such as a Ford Crown Victoria. Now, Ford Crown Victorias are no longer made, but you still cling to them. Now suppose everybody is driving Honda Lunchboxes and Smarts, and the entire population of the planet is pressuring you into getting one. I CANNOT handle change in this way.

What I Like...
 

is flat screen CRTs. Not many people like them because they're deep being around a 70 degree deflection tube (much like the very first CRTs).

...

Two CRT sets I bought new (79 GE, 90 XBR) needed repairs within a couple years, neither of my Panasonic Plasmas (2008, 2014) has had an issue. Neither did the 2005 Sony LCD Rear Projector. (replaced by the Plasma)

I have a 2007 Samsung LCD that I got with a bad PS cap and repaired, it's been running fine since 2011.

My two HP LCD Monitors from 2007 have never had a problem and they probably get more use than the TV's, the one I'm using now has 13,000 hours on the back light, the monitor itself is always on.

Older CRT sets were probably more easily repaired and parts more available, but that has more to do with the manufacturing process than anything else.

One problem flat-screen TVs with LED backlights cannot have is inverter failure, as LED backlights do not need an inverter as do FPs with CCFLs in that position. That's one less thing to worry about going bad.

VK member andy makes a very good point regarding the reliability of flat screen TVs. I agree with him that the reliabilty issue has been overblown. As I have mentioned before in previous posts, my Insignia 19" LCD flat screen is five years old now (it was manufactured in May 2011) and is still working every bit as well as it did the day I bought it. I am expecting it to last a few more years, but if it doesn't, I have my 20-year-old Zenith Sentry 2 ready to replace it.

I think flat screens, which have been with us now for some time and have all but completely replaced CRT sets in American and Canadian homes, have come a very long way from the very first ones, which often did fail within two years or less (!) of initial purchase. Today's FPs, except the very cheap no-name ones (Polaroid, Element, Craig, et al.) found at CVS, Rite Aid or bargain-basement discount stores, are much more reliable, with most issues stemming from design flaws and/or from the use of very cheap (read $.05 or even less) capacitors and other parts. These are much more likely to be damaged beyond repair by lightning strikes and other electrical hazards, although any TV (FP or CRT), even the expensive large-screen ones, or other electronic device can be damaged by a close strike and certainly by a direct hit on the AC line from which the set is powered, or a strike on a cable line, although of course the cable box (if used) will likely be damaged first if lightning hits the cable.

Yeah, I agree that is one positive thing with DTV. I live in Tiltonsville, OH, moved here to be closer to my gradeschool buddy after I lost my mother in 2013. I live in the Ohio River Valley and I only get two TV station over the air, but at least both have 1 main channel and 2 subchannels. WTRF in Wheeling on 7 carries CBS as their main channel and they have ABC on a subchannel and another channel as well. ABC does not come into the valley too well since the closest affiliate is in Pittsburgh and WTAE, channel 4, does go far very well. The other station is WTOV, channel 9, in Steubenville, I get NBC, Fox and MeTV on there. MeTV is what I watch 90% of the time.

You can still get all three major networks since channel 7 carries CBS, channel 9 is NBC, and channel 7 has a subchannel that carries ABC, so you don't have to worry about whether or not the ABC affiliate in Pittsburgh reaches your house. I don't know whether you can get PBS where you are (I think the closest PBS affiliate to you might be WQED in Pittsburgh), but since PBS affiliates are usually much weaker than commercial TV stations, the Pittsburgh affiliate may not reach you unless you have a powerful antenna.

BTW, I was glad to see your post, as I often wonder how you are since your mother died and you moved to southeastern Ohio three years ago.

Also, I hope your cats are OK. My own cat, Kiki, is going to be ten years old very soon (I've never been sure exactly when she was born, only that it was some time in 2006; I got her from an animal shelter near here when she was just three), and is doing quite well; affectionate, likes to stay close to me every chance she gets, and so on. I couldn't ask for a nicer cat.

I was thinking about you the other evening when I was watching my 20-year-old Zenith 19" CRT TV (I wanted to see if it still works, as I don't use it much anymore since getting my flat screen set in 2011).

Do you still have your Zenith console you had when you were at the other house, and if so, how is it working now? Those older Zeniths were built like tanks. My CRT set is living proof of that. I've had it 20 years, and it still works every bit as well as when it was new in 1995. Even has its original CRT, which still makes an excellent picture. I mention the tube because my set was made during the era when Zenith televisions had "bad" CRTs that would short after about two years, taking the video output and at least one other circuit at roughly the same time.

I've been seeing a lot of cheap LCD sets with bad LED backlights, so I've got my doubts that they'll last longer than CCFL backlights. These have all been under 3 years old (some only just outside of warranty). In these sets the backlight is one string of LEDs in series, so when one fails open the whole panel goes dark. I've yet to attempt to repair the backlight itself. I get enough of these sets with cracked LCDs that I just swap the entire backlight.

I've got quite a few 10+ year old panels with CCFL backlights that are still going strong (though I do have a stash of replacement inverter transformers for a couple that I'm particularly fond of).

LED failures aren't restricted to TV backlights. I was in a building recently full of those 3 LED downlights and every room had at least one out.

CRT TV vs. flat screen image quality
 

But, but, but... LEDs are supposed to last forever, aren't they? They told us we will never have to replace them. They told us they are the wonderful, magic, perfect, green solution that will save the planet and cure all the ills of the world.

Seriously, though, I have observed the exact same thing. I've also noticed their brightness fade over time.

In my house, I joke that we have a reverse incandescent light bulb ban -- anything that ISN'T incandescent is forbidden.

LED lighting is awesome, but like any commercially made product there's variations in qa/qc which can affect your experience. I personally wouldn't specify anything else for new construction in most instances.

I hoarded incandescent bulbs when they announced the ban, not because they're superior but because I didn't agree with the government telling people what they can't and can't buy.

Those 3 LED halogen replacement bulbs may well be a particularly cheap/poor quality type - likely supplied to the building for free under some government energy saving initiative. At least they're easy enough to replace.

I don't like the ones that are sealed and the whole fixture has to be replaced when it fails (and by a licensed electrician, at least officially).

I've actually repaired a couple that were flickering by resoldering dry joints on the driver board, but to get at the board I had to drill out all the rivets.

Good for you........ I get dizzy looking @ most of them.... THEY ARE AWEFUL!!

Has anyone seen the new OLED displays from LG? Astounding. Best picture I've ever seen.

Agreed! still a bit concerned about the life of the blue emitters, but the prices are comming down... likely my next tv will be OLED.

jr

...

Me to a T. in 2004 I wanted a new car. I was all GM & one Studebaker.
6 years before GM killed the B body ( Roadmaster, Caprice, Vista
Cruiser etc.). So I had to go to Ford & Merc. Now you cant get them
either NOT due to Ford but guess who ? There are lots of them
& B bodies around but nobody will sell them. You gotta wait for
someone to die then compete with the kids wanting a 15 second car
out of the box that weighs over 2 tons.:smoke:

73 Zeno

We are 95% incandescent, just got in some 75's & 150's.
Only others are 2 spotlights & a few pigtails in closets. Its to us
an expression of freedom & protest. Just like guns & big cars.
Even if not forced I would have them anyways.

73 Zeno:smoke:

So what is the projected life of the LG white OLED material... anybody here seen any data?

jr

...

The lifespan of rgb OLED material has currently been extended to 45K hours to half life. That translates to a lifetime of over 10 years if a television were viewed 12 hours a day. Prototype green OLED has been extended to 198K hours to half life and blue 68K hours to half life.

As previously mentioned, LG uses white OLED with rgb filters. That should eliminate the low efficiency of others OLED colors, which is now almost a moot point. I have not found specific data on the life of LG's white OLED material.

The main problem now being worked on is how to improve the brightness of OLED to allow OLED to display HDR (high dynamic range) for the new 4K spec. Currently LCD still excels in brightness because it is non-emissive and the LED backlighting can be driven to higher levels. OLED is emissive and creates its own light without the need for backlighting. An individual OLED pixel can be turned on and off 100% allowing "infinite" contrast.

andy, etype2...
Thanks for the good info, can't wait, prices are dropping and I still think that I would enjoy a curved screen, if availabe when I decide to buy. (Advent nostalga).

jr

Just saw this this morning from FLATPANELHD blog. The Vice President of LG citation.


"Ever since OLED was a research project, the lifespan of the organic material has been debated. There is no reason to worry, says LG. The latest generation of OLED TVs now has a lifespan of 100,000 hours, according to a report by Korea Times.

OLED lifespan has tripled
Ever since Kodak started working on OLED in the 70’s, longevity has been a topic. The organic material inside the pixels that helps create light and colors decays over time.

LG is the only manufacturer capable of mass-producing OLED TVs and since the company launched the first OLED TVs it has used a special type of white OLED sub-pixels that passes light through filters. The company has repeatedly said that this method can lower production costs and increase longevity. We now have some numbers.

- "When we first started manufacturing OLED TVs in 2013, their lifespan was some 36,000 hours," said Lee Byung-chul, Vice president for LG Electronics to Korea Times and continued; "technological development has extended it to 100,000 hours now. This is equal to 30 years, if a user watches our OLED TV for 10 hours a day."

A lifespan of 100,000 hours, if correct, appears to refute the rumors that especially LG’s local neighbor likes to spread. Samsung has reportedly given up on mass-producing OLED TVs and has cited longevity as one of the reasons. Samsung will instead focus on so-called QLED TVs.

For comparison the half-life for the backlight in LCD TVs is typically rated at around 60-70,000 hours. However, most often components fail before the backlight dies out."
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.

...

Wondering if LG has some patented processes or materials that give them an advantage in OLED production.

NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color

What I'd really like to know is people's opinions on OLED TV's vs. CRT TV's. I'm really amazed by the picture quality of OLED display technology.