Wacky old antennas
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I have had aluminum feever for over 35 years, compulsively looking for classic antennas every time I'm on the road.
Stacked Conical X2 appears to have been used to get Philadelphia VHF channels in Harrisburg, about 85 miles.Attachment 175261 Stacked single channel and yagi (redundant) for a local VHF channelAttachment 175263 Stacked VHF hi/lo aimed for Philadelphia VHF channels in Reading, 45 miles away. Attachment 175262 The Finco "bedspring" is another good one, but I have no picture...yet. Often I wonder if some are in use, even just for some FM reception.:scratch2: |
Great photos! Those antennas may not be up much longer, judging from condition. :(
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Finco "Bedspring"
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Was always fascinated by the Finco 400 series antennas. My mother took my brother and I to see them demonstate the antennas with a truck setup that hooked me on DXing for life. That was a LONG time ago. I found the Finco patents and used them to make a 400. It easily outperforms my Wade VIP-307 and nearly equals my CM4251 Parascope. Here is a picture of a 400 in Colorado (I think). My Finco reproduction is used in Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi. It is also an incredible FM antenna but it takes a tuner that is hard to overload to use. (SAE MKVI)
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26KC20- Thanks for the photo. I will post a picture of the Finco antenna truck, I have an old advert from 1963. Maybe we need to go into business since everybody forgot how to make a truly good VHF antenna. I was really bummed when CM discontinued crossfires! |
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Making a Finco 400 was not difficult but it is BIG! From what I have learned, there was a smaller version, the 200. It was half the antenna. It seems the 400 is a stacked set of 200's. It is very directional. What is good about it is although big(!) it does not present a large wind load. My VU-937 SR Wade was a major "dancer" on the roof during storms. It was not a real performer. A CM3671 outperforms it. The VIP-307 is great for VHF. It's the one under the CM4251. This photo was taken after a tree came down on the house.
Patent #s 2566287 2630531 2655599 |
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jr Add: One of my favorite UHF only antennas for suburban use is the "bow-tie" style corner reflector, which was used in the earliest days of UHF and still useful on my roof for the local DTV channels. Note: Western Scrub Jay for scale. (about 11" tall, including tail) |
Since the advent of cable tv, the abudance of antenna's "ain't what it used to be". I always enjoyed road trips as a kid and seeing what was used in other areas. I remember what the Detroit area was like before subscribed service came along and DX'ing. Installed lots of antennas too, mostly Winegards. I had a small Zenith(Jerrold?) antenna on a rotor that would really outperform for it's size with it's staggerd elements.
I glad I'm not the only one....I guess it's not a sickness after all! |
I saved the antenna off of my great grandparents house, a JFD as I recall. It looks like a smaller version of that conical? Really rough shape, though, with most of its elements missing or beyond repair. I'm guessing it isn't really worth saving, but I'll have to post some photos before tossing it. There is a similiar looking array that I pass all the time. I need to stop and take a photo.
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I have to admit, these worked good as a fringe antenna on VHF, even giving clear reception of Lancaster channel 8 off the backside:thmbsp:. Also were damn cheap too, so the rooftops were full of them in the primarily VHF areas N+W of Philadelphia. And speaking of Philly, here is a good plug for GC colormagic antennas. Attachment 175318 One might ask why Philco did not endorse their good neighbor, Jerrold antennas. Someone may know, but I put up a few "Zenith" antennas in the late 70s that were made by Jerrold. They performed better than Channel Master and built as good as Winegard. I have my eye on one, so I am going to ask ASAP. |
This is a great topic. The antennas in the pictures Dave first posted need to be saved if possible; we collectors have hundreds of TV sets and lots of rabbit ears but how many early outdoor antennas have been preserved?
I remember when I first moved away from home into an apartment, one of the first things I did was to install a roof TV antenna for real reception (as well as a roof CB antenna). It was a huge used Jerrold that I also brought to my second apartment and kept until high winds knocked the whole assembly down. After that, I moved to California and wanted to watch MTV, so I subscribed to (puke!) cable TV for several years. |
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Another "oldie but goody", but for FM this time. Pictured is a Radio Shack 10 element Yagi for FM only made in the early 70s. It is about 10 feet long. Later in the 70s, RS changed the 10 element to a version that was a hybrid log-periodic/Yagi design, eliminating the folded dipoles. the 10 element design was discontinued in the mid 80s (I believe). RS also sold a 6 element hybrid log-Yagi until fairly recently. The Antennacraft FM-6 is still being sold at other outlets, and is a fine performer for the money.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...enna-%28FM6%29 This antenna is in use on my roof, pointed at a classical station about 110 miles distant. Tuner is a Yamaha 950 (with narrow IF filters installed)...Reception is fine! Not affiliated, jr |
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I STILL want a nice 30-40' tower, a rotatorator, mount my Winegard on top.. This area has spme UNREAL DXing opportunities...
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Many times, you'll find old antennas, in like new condition, in attics of older homes. It was better than using set-top antennas, in poorer reception areas.
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The nearest I have got is, one time several years ago when NTSC stations were still on the air, I pointed my 3-element 14/21/28 MHz Yagi antenna (on a 55-foot tower) toward Sacramento and hooked it up to a TV to see what I would get. It pulled in their Channel 3 TV station with only a small amount of snow. I should hook it up again and see if I can get any out-of-area digital stations. Eventually I want to put up one of my bigger all-band TV antennas on that tower with a nice Channel Master 7777 preamp. |
RCA antennas
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A friend just sent me this photo of a 1950 RCA service truck with what looks to be a stacked conical on roof. Attachment 175484
Some more of the RCA antennas, a corner reflector from 1967 that performs very well. This design was carried over for years afterward and is being sold by Digitenna. Attachment 175485Attachment 175486 This is the last of the real RCA-branded antennas, assumed to be made by Gavin in NJ. Some retain the signature green anodizing even after 35+ years! I would hate to see the haz-mat report on the site where these were made.:nono: They sure do last as I still see many around.:scratch2: The main issue with these was the poor UHF response due to the " very notchy" trap that attempted to trap the out-of-phase UHF received by the VHF section behind it. :thumbsdn:Attachment 175487 Many a job re-used these as a VHF antenna and adding a separate corner reflector with amp on the mast. Recently, I just had to experiment on digital using these designs and removed two of them from houses bought by Amish folks who were overjoyed that somebody wanted to remove this worldly symbol from thier chimney. This mid-size model performed only after isolating the UHF from the VHF and feeding them to an amp with separate U-V inputs (winegard AP2870) The curlicue-loaded VHF elements also set these apart. Attachment 175488 |
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That looks like a Finco. The UHF trap looks like it had some engineering behind its design. Small but I bet it works real well in Chicagoland!
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Buffalo-Toronto Antenna Special
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One area of which I am slightly intrigued is western NY. With access to Canadian stations (we only get AM DX from Canada this far south).
Check out this advertisement for a antenna retailer, selling "kits" direct to consumers. I estimate this is from the early 1960's. The only UHF mentioned is channel 17, a PBS channel. Notice that Hamilton is incorrectly shown west of Toronto. Attachment 175653 I also have one from Reading, PA for a Finco "area special" had a 3-6-10 broadband for Philly with an "8-bar" little Yagi antenna so you did not need a rotor just to get the one other VHF channel 8 clear, from the other direction. This was a rather pedestrian setup getting just the three networks (two are NBC), lacking equipment to get the elusive three Philly UHFs that went on the air in 1965. For that, Barbey Electronics sold the Finco 4-bay bowtie or JFD 4-bay bowtie (stacked co-linear arrays & vertically-oriented screens). You could always tell the JFD because it had the bowtie halves closed, not cut and heart-shaped. The corner reflectors seemed more suited to open areas with fewer tree obstacles, providing less wavefront capture, but slightly higher gain. |
I cleaned out a TV shop in Delaware and he had a pair of NOS antennas in the attic, I think Channel Master, that were made just for just low-band VHF as I recall. He said the state prison had ordered them for some reason but never had them installed. I went as far as emailing a small local cable company to see if they would take them but, hearing nothing, they were still in the attic when the place was razed. I did find a good home for a NOS CM UHF, one of those huge ones, probably irritated the UPS guy having to deal with that box.
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Channel master made the best UHF antenna, the Parascope model 4251, discontinued for the reason you state, a royal pain to handle. ( Finco also had one) If there's any signal, these will grab it. Here is a link of a dedicated fan - no affiliation of course.
http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm I spotted one on the rear roof of a local high-end audio-video dealer near work a few years ago. I kept bugging the guy to sell it to me since he quit using it for his showroom. One day, I noticed the place closed and for sale, lots of red ink so I was told. Kept my eye on it and when a local Sign company bought the building, I made my move. The guy was thrilled to get it off his roof! I showed up alone with ladder and truck and removed everything including a CM 0068 amp and rotator, patching holes of course.. Now its on my shop garage, just above the roof. It probably takes an olympian feat to put one on a tower. |
Thank you for those notes and the link, Dave. I used to think those were the coolest antennas to see when I was a kid. My brothers and I thought they were for some sort of "secret", closed-circuit or other special TV signals. In recent years, I have picked up a couple of parabolic grill-type antennas used for MDS or MMDS TV signals, the ones near 2400 MHz. They are smaller though, 3 or 4 feet diameter.
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The Baltimore & DC markets had what they called "Super TV" with movies starting every night at 8pm. I would tune in to the scrambled signal (on WNUV-54) quite often as a novelty. Sometimes you could almost sorta see something! My father had a hunting buddy that subscribed. One night we all went over there for a party, to see some mob movie. I don't know what it was but there were so many "F-bombs" that my sisters and I had to stay in the back of the house. It didn't matter much because the reception was so poor that they never did make it through the whole thing. I wish I had the TV they owned, a very late Philco-Ford console.
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There was a subscription-TV station in Cleveland in the '80s, WCLQ-TV channel 61 (now WQHS Univision 61) that carried standard programming during the day, until about eight p.m., and subscription TV at night, all night. For the subscription service, the station had connections with a company that made decoders for the station's STV signal which it leased to interested subscribers for a monthly fee, and even special antennas cut specifically for the channel 61 frequency range. I saw at least one of those in my old neighborhood at least into the 1990s, long after STV folded in the Cleveland area. The subscription TV service went off the air some time in the late '80s, and the local affiliate in Cleveland became WQHS-TV, an affiliate of the Home Shopping Network. This lasted a few years (I don't remember exactly how long), then HSN (now QVC) went to cable and WQHS became (and is to this day) a Spanish-language Univision affiliate. Digital channel 61.1 nowadays, of course. I believe Detroit's WXON-TV channel 20 also had a subscription-TV service called "ON" TV, which may have lasted as long as the Cleveland affiliate did. I'm not sure what happened to channel 20 after that, although I think it became a MyTV affiliate and changed its callsign to WMYD (My [TV] Detroit). During its WXON-TV days, and before I got cable, I used to be able to get the station in suburban Cleveland in the summers, along with most other Detroit stations -- including WGPR-TV 62 (now CBS affiliate WWJ-TV). I still get Detroit stations on an indoor DTV antenna, but since I now live (and have lived since 1999) within a mile of the south shore of Lake Erie I'm not surprised. |
Jeff, Bryan mentioned that he was at a house where they were subscribing to the service; that is how/why they could hear the audio.
Apparently many cities had similar services around the same time period (roughly 1979 to 1985). In Chicago, it was on channel 44 and called OnTV (plus their later partner Sportsvision on channel 60). A competitor, Spectravision, was on channel 66 with a different scrambling scheme. In that time period, I, umm, did some "bad behavior". In fact, for a while I had the circuit to decode the OnTV audio (swear words and all!) memorized down to every component. It used an LM565 PLL chip, a transistor, and a few other capacitors and resistors to decode the audio from a 31 kHz or 60 kHz subcarrier. You had to tap the TV's audio detector before any de-emphasis components eliminated the subcarrier from the baseband audio. A cheap-and-dirty but useable way of decoding the video was to put a J.W. Miller 6333 coil in series with the video detector and tune it to eliminate the 15.75 kHz sine wave that scrambled the video. A DPDT switch completed the modification to the TV (to select normal or scrambled). |
Jerrold - Zenith of antennas
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With my tower installed over a month ago, I have been testing different UHF antennas to see what I should ultimately install for long-term use.
I stick with one target channel, DT31 which is my location's weakest signal from Philadelphia. The recent muggy unsettled weather makes for great worst-case OR d-x scenarios that seem to vary daily.:sigh: I started with a Digitenna D-UV as a base. This is a decent product made in Wisconsin, but pricey. The design uses RCAs bow-tie design mentioned in a previous post to good advantage in a relatively small package. I next used the classic S+A UPW (relatively flat response) from the late 60s. It was nearly the same as the D-UV, a real testament to an old classic. Attachment 176079 After a week or so, I ventured into my garage attic and found this, a Jerrold variant of the corner reflector with a very interesting design. This was mainly seen on commercial-level MATV installations and looks like something Blonder-Tongue would make today and sell for big bucks. It has a 4 foot high semi-parabolic (in vertical plane only) reflector, a design currently being sold as an attic antenna under the GE name at Mal-wart. The real key to its effectiveness, or efficiency if you will, is the driven element design, not found in the GE-marketed version. The simple bowtie has top and bottom horizontal "tails" and is "grounded" in the center of each half by stand-offs of critical length. Attachment 176080 It is no wonder Jerrold was chosen as OEM for Zenith's line of antennas in the 70s! Also small wonder Jerrold's PIX series VHF design lives on in the VIP line by WADE antennas of Canada. After installing this Jerrold and seeing excellent results, the subsequent three "fringe" UHF antennas I have left to try may well be out-shined. This ad from 1969 shows a cross-section Jerrold's line Attachment 176346 A reality check here; Nothing has been known to beat a full Parabolic, but being currently UN-available and a freaking beast to ship/install, its mentioned only as a point of reference as we seek the "second best" and practical solution. Regarding mast-mount pre-amps, I prefer to use something new. The older ones seem prone to PS transformer failure AND of course "overload or poor image signal rejection" from strong FM stations. I tried the Winegard AP-2870 (separate U and V antenna inputs) and then tried the Channel Master 7777, with similar features but more expensive rugged construction. Both performed in a similar manner, but when I did the same comparison on my CM 4251 Parabolic (installed in a secure but low elevation), the CM7777 produced a stronger (probably cleaner- per the CM-7000 DTV box) signal* *I should have a Sencore or B&K ($1000 at least )spectrum analyzer to do this properly. DTV boxes do not report signal level but rather bit-error rates, which are affected more by multipath than strength. |
If you go to the irvington flea market in indianapolis indiana booth 79 has 1950s rabbit ears 10-15 dollars each!:banana:
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I seem to have given all mine away when I sold TVs to the less fortunate. :sigh: |
This thread encouraged me to finally get off my duff and set up my outdoor antenna. I had been making due with an "oven rack" UHF hanging in the attic. I had everything I needed: a pretty high-end, fairly late model Winegard that I had picked up a few years back at the local freight salvage store (installed on the back of my shed, hardly off the ground and with mast supports so badly twisted by a windstorm that it was almost vertical), a NOS Channel Master chimney mount kit, bought new by somebody in the early 60s at Atom Electronics of Lancaster, PA (how ya like that, Dave?), a used 70s vintage Alliance rotor, and plenty of coax. I got it mounted last week and have been slowly getting things set up. Issue #1 right now is that the bedroom TV is seeing too much line-loss due to the goofy way I rigged things up. For some dopey reason, when we added on I ran the coax from the bedroom through to my TV room, not up through the attic or down through the crawlspace, but through the studs where I can't access it. At least, I think that is how I did it. The coax has to run down into the TV room, through an outlet, then another short piece of coax connecting to another outlet that runs to the bedroom. Oh, I do have one of those 20db amplifiers in the mix back there. With that setup, and the antenna aimed towards Baltimore, I can't really pick up anything. But the living room set, seeing almost a straight run, gets pretty much every channel from the city. (but with help from another 20db amp right before the TV, and yet another one up in the attic!) So, got some cleaning up to do. What do you guys think about an antenna mounted amp? Any reccomendations as to make/model? I played with one a long, long time ago, from Radio Schlock, but it didn't last long.
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Every time you amplify a TV signal, you will add more noise. However, I'm surprised you need two amplifiers ahead of your large outdoor UHF antenna just to get Baltimore stations from where you are (TV Guide's website shows Baltimore-Washington area stations as being the default stations for your area). Also, I am wondering why you don't get anything on one TV (yet the living room one gets all the Baltimore stations) if you are using the same amplified antenna system for both TVs in your house. If it works well for the living room set it should work equally well for the other in the bedroom, or wherever your second TV is in the house.
BTW, I wonder if the Baltimore TV stations are all on UHF DTV allocations, or if some few are still on VHF channels. I ask because, here in northeastern Ohio where I live, two stations -- Fox channel 8 and CBS channel 19 -- are on VHF DTV channels, while every one of the others (3, 5, 25, 43, 61) are on UHF allocations. This means I can get the UHF ones but not the two on VHF channels (I was using a small UHF only DTV antenna at the time, about a year or so ago). If the two VHF DTV stations were independents or were affiliated with networks I don't watch, I wouldn't mind that I don't get their digital channels, but these two stations also carry my two favorite retro-TV networks (MeTV and Antenna TV) on subchannels 19.2 and 8.2, respectively. |
Been on the lookout for old TVantennas in the neighborhood. Not much left anymore, but I do notice quite a few of the remaining Log Periodic and Yagi antennas pointing exactly 180° backwards, with the big end toward the stations. Oops.
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BTW, I know what you mean about old rooftop TV antennas disappearing. I live in a very small town (population appoximately 3250) in which most of the homes and apartment buildings (including the apartment building in which I live) have done away with antennas, and are now either wired for cable or satellite TV. (My building has cable.) There are very few outdoor television antennas to be found in this town, and those that are still standing are falling apart. There is one house down the street from me that has an all-channel TV antenna which is falling apart by degrees. It has already lost the first two elements, and the ones behind it are so loose that one of them flaps in the wind. I expect that element to blow off entirely in the first big wind or snow storm this winter (I live near Lake Erie, so we get very fierce winds right off the lake every year; that antenna likely will blow apart very soon, the way it's going now). |
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http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master...ter+tv+booster At least one reviewer complained that he ordered from Amazon and got "old stock"... I would pay extra for the older version! :yes: Not affiliated with Amazon or Channel Master, jr |
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JFD - Frankenstein of Antennas part 1 of 2
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Last week, I climbed up into the darkness of the garage attic and pulled out a rather interesting UHF helical I snagged off a 3-story roof several years ago. Attachment 176343I had attempted to get one of these several times only to be turned away by the queasy, litigation-shy and just plain ignorant to the $20 spot I offered. Breaking out WD40 for frozen wingnuts and emery cloth shined up harness connections for maximum conduction. I then climbed the tower and hoisted my Zig-a-log (LPV-ZU20) into place, connecting through the CM7777 mast amp, expecting some record-breaking performance. I was not disappointed. It was a tad less effective than the Jerrold, but had a significantly narrower beam. Again, nothing beats a parabolic CM4251 for UHF.
Update 10/1/12: During changeable rainy weather yesterday, the ZigaLog seemed to perform better on the "difficult channel WPPX" as the weather worsened. All the while the parabolic, located 40 feet away and at a lower elevation was having trouble holding the channel as is the norm during such weather. Few antenna manufacturers of the glory days made their products as easy to identify as JFD. Originally JFD of Brooklyn NY seemed to make only signal splitters, couplers and other TV accessories. I have a few examples of those items and the boxes they came in. I have a few catalogs (out on loan) that covered much of JFD's late 1950s product line. Here is an example of JFD's top-value UHF antennas that most manufacturers made, the 4-bay bow tie and corner reflector plus a mid-60s advertisement for JFD expressing frustration over a 1965 government mandate for all-channel TV stopping short of addressing antennas. Sound familiar? Attachment 176345 This ad proclaims a breakthrough VHF design noting 6 patents which would be a formidable competitor for the next 15 years! Many of these are still visible on rooftops due to rugged construction.Attachment 176418 This ad includes the "trapezoid" or helical design UHF antenna in a set-top version. My next post will feature a home-made replica of this little UHF wonder based on a 1970 JFD antenna I am still using.:D as a VHF performer. Hopefully, you can read the paragraphs supporting the "fight" against CATV coming to your area Attachment 176419 J F D Antennas were usually so well-constructed, many can still be seen today. The tell-tale mid-element capacitors optimized high-band performance. They also had the most bizarre look:alien:with Channel Master coming in a distant second in that category. The antenna pictured Attachment 176344is one of the last LPV models JFD made before becoming history. A search of JFD turns up little more than a patent infringement suit with Channel Master and a superfund site in NC. |
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