Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums

Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums (http://www.videokarma.org/index.php)
-   Things with Motors (http://www.videokarma.org/forumdisplay.php?f=186)
-   -   2003 Grand Marquis problems (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=269912)

Adam 12-24-2017 07:51 PM

2003 Grand Marquis problems
 
So about 4 months ago I decided to floor it, and the engine hesitated and then took off but started missing badly. I had no time to work on it, so it sat for about a month.

Then I figured I'd just try changing the plugs and see what happens. Only two plugs were at all dirty enough that I thought they might cause any problems, but after I put in the new plugs and started it up it ran fine.

Now it would still miss occasionally when idling, not regularly, about once a minute increasing in regularity the longer I sat idling, and in drive with the brakes on only, it wouldn't do it if I shifted into neutral. It would also sometimes give me trouble when going uphill, but would start running fine if I accelerated while going up the hill.

Then after about 3 weeks of running more or less ok, I was stuck in traffic for a long time, and it started running crappy again. I pulled out the plugs, and they weren't dirty at all. Now, I haven't driven it much since, but what I have found out is that if I let it sit for a few days, it runs fine afterwards, until I let it idle in drive for about a minute, then it starts running crappy again. If I let it sit again it runs fine, and the cycle repeats itself.

Now I don't really know where to start, other than it's not the spark plugs (and probably not the ignition coils either). Vacuum leak? fuel pump? clogged tailpipe:D Any ideas?

I miss having older cars that I understand better. If anyone wants to swap me for or is looking to sell (in the 2-3K range or less) an older American car in drivable (or nearly drivable) condition with a carburetor, distributor, and no stinkin' computers, with an 8 (or at least a 6) let me know.

And it's freezing in my garage. I've left one of those electric radiators on in there for about 24 hours now, cause I wanted to go out there and work on that remote RCA b/w in the metal cabinet I got at the fall etf, and it's barely made any difference in the temperature, if at all.

Eric H 12-24-2017 09:28 PM

It's probably a bad coil. I work on these every day (In Crown Vic trim) and a misfire is almost always a coil, or Coolant from a leaky intake down a plug hole, but you would have noticed that.

You can test them easily enough by holding the end close to a ground while running, a good one will arc out the end of the boot and then some with a healthy snap, a weak one often won't have enough kick to make it to the end of the boot.

Just do one at a time until you find the weak one, you'll probably set some codes doing this but that's easily fixed.

zeno 12-24-2017 09:50 PM

Never had misses on my former 2003 Grand Marque ( 240,000 mi) or
my 2004 Crown Vic Sport ( 150,000 mi). I wouldnt bail out of that
car, they are as good as anything ever made. In fact you can not find used
ones in my area cause a few taxi companies buy every one they can
find under 200 K mi. I gave up & got my squaw a new Caravan. I
wish it were a clean CV , Marque or better yet a B body Roadmaster LT-1
Surprised with all that missing it hasnt set a code.........

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Adam 12-24-2017 10:13 PM

If I can stand to get out in the cold tomorrow, I'll try that with the coils. I had assumed because when I pulled the plugs for the 2nd time, I didn't see any dirty ones the coils were ok.

Everyone says these cars last forever, but this is giving me all this trouble at only 73K miles. In comparison, my 72 Impala with the 400 had 115K on it when I sold it in 2006, still had the original 2 barrel carburetor on it. It ran great, it was just leaking loads of trans fluid, I think out of the front seal.

old_tv_nut 12-24-2017 11:11 PM

I had a 2003 Marauder for 10 years/100,000 miles when I traded it in just because. Second the hunt for a bad coil. If that doesn't do it, I'd think about sensors (I forget what there is - oxygen? air flow?).

Boobtubeman 12-24-2017 11:42 PM

Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR

MadMan 12-25-2017 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 3193889)
I miss having older cars that I understand better.

You hit the nail on the head. You don't understand it, that's all. The crown vics are actually about the most-traditional modern computerized cars. They have their issues like any car, but there's a good reason why they were favored by police and livery for decades, and actually forced Ford to continue making them for 10 or so years past when Ford intended to discontinue them.

Get yourself a cheesy obdII scanner from ebay or amazon for ~$20. Even the cheapest one that won't describe what a code means is fine - just google the code number it gives you. Chances are good that if you have a misfire, which you do, you'll have a code (check engine light is on). The code will either indicate a particular cylinder (then you can focus your efforts on that one only [don't forget that fords are numbered 1234 on one side and 5678 on the other]) -OR- it'll say random/multiple misfire, then it'll be less likely to be one cylinder problem, and more likely a vacuum leak or something like that.

Like Eric said, these coils go bad all the time. And even if you pull a coil out and put a plug in the end of it, hold the plug to ground, and watch it spark while the engine runs, isn't necessarily a good indicator, as coils can stop intermittently, especially once they get hot. Also like he said, oil and antifreeze leaking into the spark plug wells is very common, and typically once the rubber boot is soaked in either, it won't insulate the spark very well, and will cause a misfire. So if you were ignoring that one coil boot that was wet with antifreeze, that's the culprit. If you get a code that indicates a single cylinder misfire, you can switch that coil with another, clear the codes, and try again. When the code comes back, if it's for a different cylinder, the coil is at fault.

Beyond that, vacuum leaks are fairly common. Ford liked to make some of the vacuum hoses out of thin rubber that expires easily and collapses, or thin plastic tubes that crumble or crack. Check all vacuum connections to the intake, especially in the back where it's less obvious, and just look at the integrity of the hoses and tubes. Most commonly, it's the rubber hose that goes to the evap purge valve, it collapses and the vacuum sucks a hole open in it. Though less common, the big rubber intake hose coming from the air filter can also crack, and create a small leak that will be worse under varying conditions. Remove it completely and take a good close look.

Another common issue is that the electrical connectors for the coils AND the injectors have a tendency to have their clasps break, making them able to come loose under the vibration of the engine. Ensure they're all tight. A loose one with a broken clasp can be easily remedied with a pencil-eraser size dab of silicone right into the space where the clasp of the plug broke off. Plug it back in, and when it dries, it will stay in place, but still be easy enough to pull back off for service.

Another thing to note - although it won't cause a misfire - is that this type of air flow meter tends to get dirty and needs to be cleaned once in a while to maintain performance. A can of air flow meter cleaner will help you with that.

Happy hunting!

old_tv_nut 12-25-2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobtubeman (Post 3193898)
Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR

Re-reading the symptoms: if it's bouts of multiple misses coming and going, it sounds more like a sensor than a single plug or coil.

Adam 12-25-2017 01:20 PM

It's only 9 degrees outside, and while the Mercury will fit in the garage, it's not deep enough to really work on it with the door shut. And even with that electric heater going for 2 days, it's only any warmer within a 2 foot radius of where I left the heater.

I've found it has to be at least over 20 to work on anything outside. I can wear lots of coats, but I've found that under 20 degrees I either have to choose between wearing thick gloves or having my fingers go numb, neither of which lets me do much of anything.

But you guys have given me some good stuff to think about, as soon as it warms up a little I'll check those coils. The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?

I think I'm just going to stop trying to ineffectively heat the garage with that electric radiator, and bring whatever electronic stuff I want to work on inside. I can use my desk in the basement, or even the kitchen table - I'm here by myself for the next 2 weeks.

Electronic M 12-25-2017 01:35 PM

I'm cheap as hell...If it will still move reliably enough under its own power to get me to an auto parts store and back I go to a store that will read the codes for free (Autozone, Oriley, etc.) and have them do a read.

I know what you mean about working on cars in the winter and radiators being ineffective...My garage is not insulated on three sides & roof, there is no ceiling and the roof is ~2 stories at peak....All the heat goes up well above my head and stays there/leaks out. If my family and I continue to live here for more winters I'm thinking about buying 8'x4'x2" sheets of styrofoam to insulate the walls and make a crude false ceiling to trap the heat....

If yours is a 2 car or 1.5 car garage parking at an angle so you can walk past the front may be a good option.

dieseljeep 12-25-2017 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 3193909)
It's only 9 degrees outside, and while the Mercury will fit in the garage, it's not deep enough to really work on it with the door shut. And even with that electric heater going for 2 days, it's only any warmer within a 2 foot radius of where I left the heater.

I've found it has to be at least over 20 to work on anything outside. I can wear lots of coats, but I've found that under 20 degrees I either have to choose between wearing thick gloves or having my fingers go numb, neither of which lets me do much of anything.

But you guys have given me some good stuff to think about, as soon as it warms up a little I'll check those coils. The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?

I think I'm just going to stop trying to ineffectively heat the garage with that electric radiator, and bring whatever electronic stuff I want to work on inside. I can use my desk in the basement, or even the kitchen table - I'm here by myself for the next 2 weeks.

Those electric radiators are only good for a tightly closed area. In a drafty place like a garage, you need something like a propane forced air heater. Some refer to them as a Torpedo heater. Mine is adjustable to 80K BTU. I used this thing before I insulated and installed a natural gas unit heater.
In this kind of weather, you might have bite the bullet and see your friendly Ford dealer. When I was younger, I used to work on my own cars as much as possible, but not in this kind of weather. I'm about 90 miles north east of Madison and it's damn cold here. :thumbsdn:

MadMan 12-25-2017 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 3193909)
but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars

The little ones have been getting steadily cheaper. If you want a real scanner that can do everything, $2k minimum.

Here's a cheapie basic one
This one is still decently priced, but will also let you look at live sensor data. I have a slightly-higher model one of these (model 6001) that I use daily at my shop for quick checks.

I would definitely recommend getting one with data stream capability. Not all cars have it in the data, I don't think yours does, but some have a misfire counter for each cylinder in the data. Still, when other problems arise, data is very helpful. Without codes and data, it's kind of like working with your eyes closed. And I don't know if you have emissions tests up there, but any of these little scanners will tell you if it's passing (I/M readiness). Also, it's always good to have one of these around to check on family's and friends' cars.

They have some other ones that are just a nub you plug into the car, and download an app on your phone to read it. Haven't yet tried any of those. Also I was just at Harbor Freight the other day and I peeked at the scanners there, I think there was a half-ass decent one for $45 or so.

Eric H 12-25-2017 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 3193909)
The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?

If you have codes stored that will be a big help. Some Parts Stores will even read the codes for free (with the hope of selling you something).

If you needs coils you can get an entire set from Amazon for $30 & up.

The codes for specific cylinder misfire are P030* with the last digit being the cylinder number. P0303 for example would be cylinder 3 misfire, (remember on a Ford #3 is the third cylinder back on the passenger side).

If you can narrow it down to a specific cylinder or cylinders it will save a bunch of time.

Electronic M 12-25-2017 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan (Post 3193913)
The little ones have been getting steadily cheaper. If you want a real scanner that can do everything, $2k minimum.

Here's a cheapie basic one
This one is still decently priced, but will also let you look at live sensor data. I have a slightly-higher model one of these (model 6001) that I use daily at my shop for quick checks. But I would definitely recommend getting one with data stream capability. Not all cars have it in the data, I don't think yours does, but some have a misfire counter for each cylinder in the data. Still, when other problems arise, data is very helpful. Without codes and data, it's kind of like working with your eyes closed. And I don't know if you have emissions tests up there, but any of these little scanners will tell you if it's passing (I/M readiness).

They have some other ones that are just a nub you plug into the car, and download an app on your phone to read it. Haven't yet tried any of those. Also I was just at Harbor Freight the other day and I peeked at the scanners there, I think there was a half-ass decent one for $45 or so.

Only emissions testing required in Wisconsin is in Milwaukee and Waukesha (where I am) counties, and it is just a computer plugin at some local shops that signed on to do it.IIRC there is a cutoff for cars older than ~1996 where you don't need emissions tests for those.

Jon A. 12-25-2017 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobtubeman (Post 3193898)
Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR

I've seen a bad distributor pickup coil cause that. Often times it was a bear to get the thing re-cranked, not to mention pulling over without the power assist which is probably harder than actual manual steering.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.