A Little Flat Tube Fun
 

Since the demise of most over-the-air analog TV broadcasting, little pocket TVs have been hitting the thrift stores, eBay and CL in droves. Now, I don't have much interest in LC sets, but the little CRT monochrome sets have some appeal to me, in particular, the Sony "watchman" series, with the "flat" CRT.

These little Sony Watchman TVs used what was likely the only design of a "flat" conventional Cathode Ray Tube that met with any commercial success. The design of the tube is really quite interesting. As early as the 50s a couple of designs for "flat" CRTs were promoted...The Akin tube and the Gabor tube promised a "hang on your wall" TV, but, as far as I know no commercial sets were produced. Sinclair poked at a design in the late 70s, but Sony Beat them to the punch by introducing a flat tube set in 1982. These sets worked well and sold well! I think that at 10 bucks or so they are quite collectible.:yes:

Picture #1 is one of my recent finds, an FD-20A. Out of the box these usually work just fine!

Peering *into* a window to view an image is somewhat reminiscent of the viewing experience of the Philco "Safari" ... Picture #2.

I know of two different designs (and several sizes) of the Sony "flat" CRT. On the left is the most common which uses a curved screen and a magnetic deflection (8-735-950-). The CRT on the right (an earlier design) uses a flat screen and a mix of magnetic and electrostatic deflection (8-733-651-23)... Picture #3.

As might be expected, by projecting the electron beam onto the phosphor surface at odd angles, the geometry of the display is somewhat compromised... Picture #4.

I have an FD-40A (4 " curved phosphor screen) on it's way from an eBay seller, will post pictures if it works.

jr

I have an FD-210; the first one with the 1.5" tube... Nice little set. I bought one new in '81, and lost it in a burglary in the late 80s. I got lucky on eBay a year or so ago, and got this one as-new in the box. The other one I'd like to have, is the Watchcam. It was a really nice kit, which came in a hard case, and had the 4" curved screen monitor (no tuner), and a tiny B&W tube camera. That was about 1985, and I've only ever seen one. I don't think they sold many of them. It was a really primitive "video baby monitor" or spy cam.

Charles

kx250rider... Did the FD210 use the flat or the curved screen version of the tube?

I have posted a few more pictures of the tubes, perhaps showing the screen and construction differences more clearly.... Picture #1 and #2.

Also a comparison to the Telefunken D5-100V, used in a Sinclair portable. The D5 is an all electrostatic deflection CRT (honey, I shrunk the 7JP4!). Pictures #3 and #4.

Also, I apologize... I should have posted this thread on the "Rectangular Tube and Solid State" Forum... I thought it was color only.

jr

I'd wondered what those tubes looked like! Well worth that price, I'd say.

I have a service manual for the Zenith version of one of these, don't know the model without looking. If anyone wants it let me know.

We used to use 9 track tape drives to store data from our experiments. There were a few occasions where the software said the data was being written to tape when in fact the drives were doing nothing. There's is a limited amount of beam time given to each experiment so this was serious.

Their solution was to put a TV camera on each tape drive and they used a Sony flat tube walkman type monitor to watch the drive.

John

Sounds like an unusual application that Sony probably never thought of.... MIBL? NSCL? :scratch2:

jr

Magnavox had one, and I think I've seen a J.C. Penney housebrand one too.

I think this one is flat. It's also the smallest one I know of, at slightly under 2" diagonal. (I said 1.5" earlier; mistook it for the Panasonic pocket sets with the 1.5" standard tube)

Charles

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...ypoptubeTV.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...10sideview.jpg

kx250rider...Cool, that is indeed a flat phosphor screen! I must watch for a 210, since it appears to be the first, it would seem to be the most collectible. There is one on eBay right now, but it has a missing (or broken) volume control knob. Wiki says 1982 for this model... did you perhaps buy your first one in Japan earlier?

Even with the Zenith and Magnavox models added in, I suspect that a collection of ALL the the models of Flat CRT TVs could fit into a shoe box :yes:

Some of the "monitor" versions have appeared on eBay*, but the BIN price is above the 10 bucks (or so) that I like to pay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-WatchCam-Ey...item1c0d11d344

* not affiliated, etc.

jr

I have a mint FD-40A that uses the flat tube. It works great but the screen geometry is not perfect as is to be expected on these tubes. It is still a remarkable achievement considering it was the 1980s. When LCD became practical and in color, there was no real market for black and white sets with these tubes.

NSCL. I had to look up Michigan Ion Beam Laboratory. I thought you were making a joke like "Men In Black Laboratory." Wish there was one, I'd apply. :D

John

Indeed, that sounds like it would be a cool place to work!:thmbsp:

jr

I got it at Christmas of '81, so it probably was a 1982 model year. The one I have now was made in Feb '82. The owners manual is copyright '80, so likely as you point out, it was available in other countries prior to here.

Charles

Yes, It appears that it was a pretty short run... This website states that the last tube Sony Watchman was the FD-280 in 1990. I suspect that perhaps the "monitors" were sold for a bit longer, but don't really know.

http://www.taschenfernseher.de/e-history.htm

Picture 1 is the odd shaped FD-280 from that link.

jr

Nice pictures of the CRTs jr tech - I did not know that the FD-210 CRT was electrostatic deflection - very ingenious how they can get a picture on a flat screen like that. I never liked the models with the curved screen - the distortion bothered my eyes. I picked up an FD-210 in excellent condition on eBay for $37 2 years ago.

Got a FD-20A NIB a few weeks ago. Gee, I forgot that analog went away but it still picks up cable leakage around the house. Geometry is about as good as my geometry grades in school.

At least it has a 1/8" video input. The 4" Zenith set is in residence also.

What a very short lived piece of history.

It may be that I had never seen one of these flat-tube sets in person. And then: a week ago I got a visit from a friend who volunteers with her husband at a thrift store. Periodically they will stop by with a box of stuff that came in the donation box but was not considered saleable. The most recent box included a Kmart table radio, an 80s Ford car radio, an old United electric clock...and guess what? An FD-10A. The batteries were pretty old and leaky-after a cleaning and new cells it worked great!

Now, today there were a lot of yard sales and at one (fundraiser at a fire company) a vendor had an FD-40A. He was trying to clear his inventory so it cost me $1. Not as nice a shape as the free one, but decent enough and it also works! The tuning string slips so I couldn't quite bring in a picture.

I was hoping these portables would start showing up cheap...I wonder what kinda color sets my start showing up? Should be an Indextron out there...

eBay is flooded with lollypop tube B&W sets, even new in the box. Right now, there is at least one each of the Magnavox and Zenith versions of the FD Watchman, as well as a plethora of Sonys including a few new-in-box.

As for the color sets, suddenly I stopped seeing the 5" early Trinitrons. It seems like the bulk of those went on eBay a few months before the switchover. I am seeing more 8" & 9" Trinitrons from the 90s, and a bunch of later model cheap LCD color pocket sets. I have picked up three of the Sony FDL-310 color LCD Watchman sets; the first Sony flat LCD color set. Amazingly, those are sleepers! I paid below $40 for a new-in-box one, and $.99 for a working but scratched up one. I probably will try to get the rest of the color Sony Watchman series. I do have the FDT-5BX5, which is a Sony rebadged cheapie 5" CRT color set, which for some sad reason, is underservingly named Watchman. It's not even a Trinitron tube copy. Just a cheap Chinese tube.

Charles

I have a few Zeniths that were built as monitors that were used in police cars for the dash cameras. No tuners, just an RCA plug for composite video.

I have found a few more of these TVs recently... I think that I have a sample of all of the CRTs used in these sets.

04JM... nearly 4" diag. curved phosphor screen.
03JM... slightly over 2.5" diag. curved phosphor screen.
02JM... nearly 2" diag. curved phosphor screen.
ED15... nearly 2" diag. flat phosphor screen.

Pictures attached. Anybody know of other screen sizes/designs?

jr

Back around 1980, RCA was kicking around the idea of building color CRTs shaped like these, http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...4&d=1256351976 but about 20 inch diagonal screen size. Saw a demo prototype mock-up of such a tube in a TV cabinet, but never saw one working. Advantage would be a shallow cabinet. It never saw production. Convergence would be fun...

I picked up a nice Sony FD-10A a couple of years ago at a garage sale for $3. It has the curved tube and works perfectly.

What might be interesting is to build a TV around the CRT's used in camcorders. They were smaller screens (some less than 1") and could probably be used for oscilloscopes as well. It should have all the HV and deflection circuitry, so most of the job is done.

Maybe we should have a contest: the best TV or oscilloscope or panadaptor or any other design of a useful product using these small tubes.

RCA ran a great ad in the "trades" back around 1970 or so. It was for their components business and had a tagline of something like "if you can dream it up, we can sell you the parts to build it". It shows a mock-up of a CTC-53 style set, but flat. Gotta dig that out and scan it someday.

Most camcorder EVFs are completely self contained video monitors - all you have to do is feed them either 5vdc or 12vdc and a composite video signal and you are all set. I built several of these, and have a lot more in my collection to complete someday. I used to buy junked video cameras and camcorders from local electronics junk stores, but now those stores are all gone, so I get my EVF modules from eBay. My favorite EVF comes off old Magnavox VR8276BK01 Color Newvicon Video Cameras because they are completely self contained and detachable with a built-in factory cable and connector. The only thing that they do not have is audio capability.

crtfool...I have to ask... what is the little tube on your avatar? 2" color Panasonic ??

jr

It is a 1/2 inch B&W EVF CRT Assy - a very popular camcorder tube.

As far as I know, the smallest standard color CRT is the 1.5" tube that Panasonic made and used in the CT-101. I have not yet found a video camera with a standard color CRT EVF. RCA made an EVF with a 1.5" color BEAM INDEX CRT, I have several of these units.

Nice!:thmbsp: I guess that I will have to look for one of those.

As far as the "contest" goes I think that Panasonic is the leader right now with this 1982 1" set (shown next to a D 5-100 W tube from a Sinclair portable). I once saw one of these installed in a dollhouse... The tube face was inside one of those "TV" salt & pepper shakers, with the end passing through a hole in the wall to an adjacent room where the circuit board was placed...very cute!

Pardon the condition of the Panasonic... it was my "rooftop" set for many years, and it once took a slide down a tile roof to land on a concrete sidewalk about 10 feet below...ouch!

jr

Your TV is a TR-1010p - I have all of the Panasonic mini CRT sets except the TR-001 - I have the TR-1000p, TR-1010p, TR-1020P, TR-1030p, TR-1031p and the CT-101 color unit.

I collect all kinds of mini TV sets - CRT and LCD, and I am fascinated by the micro camcorder CRTs. I would love to get 1 of those Sinclair CRTs - I never bought 1 of those TVs, but I used to look at them in the store windows years ago - I preferred the Panasonic models over the Sinclair, they looked modern compared to Sinclair's old style design.

I think that amptramp wants to actually build a TV set out of these micro EVF CRT units.

I remember seeing a much larger display mounted in Los Angeles police cars in the 1980s. I don't know if it was a lollipop tube, or if it was a reflective system like a Philco Safari. They were used as "MDT" units; the first onboard communications computers for the LAPD. They might have been 8 or 10 inch viewable screens. Definitely not a standard CRT, and not any type of LED or LCD.

Any police officers on AK who might know, or who might remember more details about those 1980s MDTs?

Charles

An early entry into the field of flat displays for medical and government applications (read expensive) was a 1980s Tektronix spin-off called Planar. These displays were based on EL technology and IIRC, produced a yellowish monochrome display.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_Systems

jr

Interesting... However, I remember gawking at one of those MDTs and thinking it was a CRT. I remember it having a bluish tint as a B&W tube. Also, if the Planar displays were expensive, that might answer it right there.... The Los Angeles Police Dept. has been broke for decades, and they usually hold off any spending. They were still using 1973 Plymouths into the 1990s, and today still are driving some Chevy Caprice and Ford LTD cars that are over 20 years old. :thumbsdn: . But hats off to them... They're doing a great job with what little they can scrounge up.

Charles

BUMP!

Sorry for the bump, but I would like to ask if anyone has an EXTRA CRT from a Sinclair TV lying around - I would love to add 1 of them to my collection. Thanks.

I spotted a NON-Working Sinclair TV on eBay several days ago that I thought might be a good tube donor... but the darn thing is over 100 bucks now, with more than 3 days left on the auction...Yikes!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinclair-Microvi...item4a9d268a6e

jr

Yeah - I have been watching auctions on eBay for a while, but they get too expensive for a unit just to pull a tube out of. I really do not want a complete set anyway. I thought that if someone has an extra 1 lying around, we could work something out.

The first time I actually saw what the tube looks like was when you posted a picture earlier in this thread - very interesting and even cool looking design compared to most CRTs that I have seen - I do not know if this is so different because it was designed in another country, or if it has any technical benefits.

I suspect that the small magnetic deflected tubes actually offer better performance. But the "fat neck" to provide room for the deflection plates and the curved screen, which likely reduces deflection defocus make this tube very unique. Do you have a 913? I see them once in a while on eBay.

http://uv201.com/Tube_Pages/rca_913_crt.htm

jr

I have never seen 1 of these tubes - I am going to add it to my wish list!

I found this on the same site under CRTs and Camera tubes. (Don't know how to link to the exact page, but here's the picture)

http://uv201.com/Tube_Pages/Tube_Images/CRT/crt_1.jpg

1964!

Cool find! This is a refinement of the Aken tube from the 50s... I believe that work continued through the mid 60s and even a color versions were attempted using various approaches.

jr

For some reason I can't see the picture. But I can if I go directly to the link.

John

They were used on the RCA Type 151 oscilloscope. A picture of it, both outside and inside, is here:

http://www.myvintagetv.com/vintage_test_equipment.htm

along with the ad for it:

http://www.myvintagetv.com/oscillosc...ca_151_adv.jpg

I have two of these scopes.

It disappeared from my browser too. I think some people get "funny" about having pictures on message boards etc. That's fine, but then at least design our site so it can be directly linked!