Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums

Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums (http://www.videokarma.org/index.php)
-   Recorded Video (http://www.videokarma.org/forumdisplay.php?f=173)
-   -   So what is the "Panasonic power supply issue"? (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=274700)

starbond 02-06-2022 01:13 PM

So what is the "Panasonic power supply issue"?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Eveywhere I look I see either people saying that VCRs suffer from it or people saying I have a VCR that suffers from it, but what IS the problem? Is it the capacitors? Diodes? bad mains?
I bit the bullet and got the same unit as the one that my father had in '84 to hopefully read better all the tapes that have been saved in collection.
Fuses blow right away, but before I start desoldering the metal protection cage, I want to know if there's any hope
Attachment 203918
Attachment 203919

Ed in Tx 02-06-2022 08:52 PM

Q4 is probably shorted, and maybe the driver for Q4, also check any Zener diodes tied to a voltage output check all capacitors with an ESR meter and replace as indicated. Then plug in to AC with a 40 Watt light bulb (incandescent) in series to keep from damaging any more parts. If it lights up full bright you still have a short. If it lights up a little and immediately fades out then it's probably fixed. That's how I recall fixing many of those back in the day but it's been almost 20 years.

starbond 02-07-2022 10:03 AM

Thanks Ed. Looking at Q4 its a 2SC3170. Doesnt seem to be made anymore but there are a few old ones up on ebay. do you know if there's an equivalent?
Great idea on the bulb tester, made one of those many many years ago i'll have to look for it or just make a new one.
Are diodes identifiable without a schematic? SAMS has one for $22 but id rather not add any extra expense to this project that may end up as a dud anyways.

Ed in Tx 02-07-2022 10:12 AM

Is Q4 shorted?

You should be able to tell if there is a shorted Zener by checking the outputs of the power supply for a short to ground. Without a schematic might take some guess work. They typically put a Zener slightly higher rated than the normal voltage on one of he outputs to act as a clamp in case of excess voltage to intentionally blow the fuse and protect the electronics from damage. Was the original fuse blackened? Might have been hit with a power surge.

starbond 02-07-2022 10:23 AM

I havent checked any components yet, just getting ready to. I dont have and ESR handy so going to borrow one from a friend. Still need to desolder the entire metal shield off the bottom, not a fun task.
The original fuse was black as night, looked like it exploded inside the glass. When I replaced with my own fuse, it blew normally. Sounds like a power surge initially put this thing out of commission.

Otherwise the unit seems to be intact, except it sounds like theres a a shred of tape thats stuck inside the tape head cylinder (inside that little 1/32" gap between the top and bottom of the head. when i spin the head i can feel resistance and a crinkling sound that sounds like tape.
Tried to unscrew the two screws on the head to remove it but no luck, Im guess its soldered in somewhere. Visual inspection of the heads look intact, im just hoping the thin copper wire inside didnt break. otherwise this unit is permanently dead.

Ed in Tx 02-07-2022 10:31 AM

If it doesn't have visible wires from the upper cylinder like many older VCRs had, then it has pins that come up from the rotary transformer through the bottom of the upper cylinder and are soldered to the board on top. You would have to desolder those pins to remove the upper cylinder and check for something inside.

starbond 02-07-2022 11:28 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Thats exactly it, assuming I just desolder all 16 points?
Attachment 203921
Attachment 203920

Ed in Tx 02-07-2022 11:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)
No not all 16 just the 8 that go to the rotary transformer. The other ones go to the heads. Don't mess with those. Easier to show you see picture.

I would also inspect the heads very closely for any damage. I used a 10X loupe for that.

starbond 02-08-2022 10:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Ed. Started doing it but was having some soldering braid trouble (will get back to it)
I was able to get the metal shield removed off the power circuit, removed Q4 and Im getting a voltage when testing E to B (which should be an OL reading) so i'm guessing its no good. (NPN with order B-C-E)
Q1 and Q2 checked out okay

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...1&d=1644381164

vortalexfan 02-09-2022 02:09 AM

I actually have a GE Badged Panasonic 4-Head Linear Stereo VCR from 1987 that came from my great-grandfather's house when they were cleaning it out to get ready to sell it and it also randomly developed a power supply issue one day (and it had been working perfectly up until the middle of last year and I got it around October of 2020 and then suddenly one day the VCR just died, (no front panel display or anything.)

When I opened it up, the fuse was blown and it was blown the same way as the OP's VCR's fuse was blown, which was pitch black glass like it had blown really hard from some sort of hard surge of some sort.

I had attempted to check capacitors and transistors on the power supply board and I only saw one capacitor that looked bulged and I replaced it and the VCR didn't come back to life, it still was blowing fuses. :sigh:

starbond 02-09-2022 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3239380)
I actually have a GE Badged Panasonic 4-Head Linear Stereo VCR from 1987 that came from my great-grandfather's house when they were cleaning it out to get ready to sell it and it also randomly developed a power supply issue one day (and it had been working perfectly up until the middle of last year and I got it around October of 2020 and then suddenly one day the VCR just died, (no front panel display or anything.)

When I opened it up, the fuse was blown and it was blown the same way as the OP's VCR's fuse was blown, which was pitch black glass like it had blown really hard from some sort of hard surge of some sort.

I had attempted to check capacitors and transistors on the power supply board and I only saw one capacitor that looked bulged and I replaced it and the VCR didn't come back to life, it still was blowing fuses. :sigh:

You can follow along with me as I attempt to repair mine, we might solve it together :D So far, I can say Q4 is definitely one of the issues. Still need to check diodes and capacitors

I pulled C5 which is a 120uf 200V cap, and tested with my DMM.. in capacitance mode it read 125uf which is fine, in resistance mode I got 18MOhms, when hooked up to 9v battery and measured I was getting 9V so i think this one is okay.
None of the caps looked bulged so I can either test 1 by 1 or replace them all as a precaution

djski 02-09-2022 10:11 AM

Your vintage did not have the "under spec'd" capacitors which plagued the industry years later.. If one failed, it's because it's nearly 40 years old, dried out and opened. That will not cause fuses to blow.You are looking in the correct area which would be with the circuitry on the primary side of the transformer for shorted components, Q4 and the associated diodes.
In the 30 years servicing consumer, industrial and broadcast VTR's, I have never seen a piece of recording tape find its way between the upper and lower drum. Most likely, the bearings are shot in the head motor. That being the case, the VTR is junk. That is the most expensive part in the unit and is long discontinued anyway.. If you attempt to remove the upper drum, make very sure you have the leads totally desoldered or you will break a pin and the head motor is ruined. The upper drum(heads) is pressed onto the lower unit, so it may take some patience wiggling it off. They can be difficult sometimes removing it.
I don't mean to be pessimistic but I can see this restoration being a money pit and you end up being very disapointed. I have bought working units from the Goodwill for $5-10 each. I have six spare decks from the Goodwill to ensure I have something to play the tapes in my very large library. I have seen it many times and for what you will invest in your 1984 vintage can amount to a lot.

starbond 02-11-2022 05:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by djski (Post 3239385)
Your vintage did not have the "under spec'd" capacitors which plagued the industry years later.. If one failed, it's because it's nearly 40 years old, dried out and opened. That will not cause fuses to blow.You are looking in the correct area which would be with the circuitry on the primary side of the transformer for shorted components, Q4 and the associated diodes.
In the 30 years servicing consumer, industrial and broadcast VTR's, I have never seen a piece of recording tape find its way between the upper and lower drum. Most likely, the bearings are shot in the head motor. That being the case, the VTR is junk. That is the most expensive part in the unit and is long discontinued anyway.. If you attempt to remove the upper drum, make very sure you have the leads totally desoldered or you will break a pin and the head motor is ruined. The upper drum(heads) is pressed onto the lower unit, so it may take some patience wiggling it off. They can be difficult sometimes removing it.
I don't mean to be pessimistic but I can see this restoration being a money pit and you end up being very disapointed. I have bought working units from the Goodwill for $5-10 each. I have six spare decks from the Goodwill to ensure I have something to play the tapes in my very large library. I have seen it many times and for what you will invest in your 1984 vintage can amount to a lot.

The only reason I say may is because i found about a dozen pf these tiny strands of tape inside the transport area, its slightly possible one shredded into the gap on the video head while spinning, I really hope
its not a blown head. But i have only put $10 into this unit at this point so if it turns out the head it dead then at least it was a learning experience how to troubleshoot a power supply
Attachment 203934

dishdude 02-11-2022 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starbond (Post 3239427)
The only reason I say may is because i found about a dozen pf these tiny strands of tape inside the transport area, its slightly possible one shredded into the gap on the video head while spinning, I really hope
its not a blown head. But i have only put $10 into this unit at this point so if it turns out the head it dead then at least it was a learning experience how to troubleshoot a power supply
Attachment 203934

It looks like something is misaligned in the tape path and shaving the tape off!

starbond 02-14-2022 05:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dishdude (Post 3239439)
It looks like something is misaligned in the tape path and shaving the tape off!

Its possible, but hopefully not.

Q4 arrived today, put it in the circuit and it STILL blows. :saywhat:
I tested diodes 1-5 on the circuit as well as Q1 and q2 which appeared to be still in spec
D1 is a bridge rectifier so its probably fine
D2 reads .5V forwards and OL reverse
D3 reads .6V forwards and 2V reverse
D4 reads .6V forwards and 2V reverse
D5 reads .6V forwards and 1.8V reverse
these were tested in circuit as the leads are so short, if i removed them i dont think id be able to get it back in.
http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...1&d=1644882466


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.