Our new 4K system and calibration

[etype2]

Originally Posted by dtvmcdonald

Again I ask ... what about the TEST done on the way an actual show will
be seen on cable TV ... NOT BLU-RAY, NOT in a movie theater, BUT,
I insist on a real signal, that is verified to have a bitrate **no higher than** 5megabits/sec, the way broadcasters and cable companies will send it.

I don't care with it looks like with adequate bitrate. Except in a movie
theater I'll never see that.

I answered your question. Did you look at the test results on my Calman ISF charts? I provided a link to see them. A smaller high light output panel will produce better results for HDR them my projector.

5mbps won’t cut it. I think what you are talking about is the bit rate of an average HD program. Netflix is streaming about 10 mbps. It varies during the program. It go’s up to 12 mbps. Direct TV is 30 mbps on 4K. These are the only two I’m familiar with. I’ll check on Apple TV. If your going to invest in 4K you want to make sure the chipset in the TV is capable of at least 13 mbps, 18 is better. You need an internet speed of at least 25 mbps. If your going to invest in 4K, why wouldn’t you want the best quality of 4K Blu-Ray? Some televisions display the metadata of the program watched. My Sony has this feature. Having said that, your eyes are the final test.


Update. I looked at the variable bit rates of Spider-Man Homecoming on both 4K Blu-Ray and Apple TV 4K. The Apple TV averages 13 mbps maxing out to 25 mbps and the 4K disc averaged 70 mbps maxing out at 100 mbps.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by etype2

I answered your question. Did you look at the test results on my Calman ISF charts? I provided a link to see them. A smaller high light output panel will produce better results for HDR them my projector.

5mbps won’t cut it. I think what you are talking about is the bit rate of an average HD program. Netflix is streaming about 10 mbps. It varies during the program. It go’s up to 12 mbps. Direct TV is 30 mbps on 4K. These are the only two I’m familiar with. I’ll check on Apple TV. If your going to invest in 4K you want to make sure the chipset in the TV is capable of at least 13 mbps, 18 is better. You need an internet speed of at least 25 mbps. If your going to invest in 4K, why wouldn’t you want the best quality of 4K Blu-Ray? Some televisions display the metadata of the program watched. My Sony has this feature. Having said that, your eyes are the final test.


Update. I looked at the variable bit rates of Spider-Man Homecoming on both 4K Blu-Ray and Apple TV 4K. The Apple TV averages 13 mbps maxing out to 25 mbps and the 4K disc averaged 70 mbps maxing out at 100 mbps.

I work customer service for a communications company (OK, Frontier) and the rule of thumb I was taught that for 1080 resolution, the bitrate needs to be 19 Mbps, it might be doable with 17 Mbps but 19 is the rule. I only get 12 down on internet so when I watch anime, I select standard def usually. 4K, I'm not sure, I would venture to say at least double that if not more.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by NowhereMan 1966

I work customer service for a communications company (OK, Frontier) and the rule of thumb I was taught that for 1080 resolution, the bitrate needs to be 19 Mbps, it might be doable with 17 Mbps but 19 is the rule. I only get 12 down on internet so when I watch anime, I select standard def usually. 4K, I'm not sure, I would venture to say at least double that if not more.

On Netflix 4K, the streaming averages 12 mbps. On Direct TV, 4K satilite transmission is about 30 mbps, looks very good. Not sure about YouTube. I can say some excellent 4K content on You Tube but never checked the streaming quality. As mentioned before, UHD 4K Blu-Ray is the best.

Not sure where the other guy is coming from with 5mbps. It simply won’t cut it for 4K. He seems to suggest after spending all the money to create the formats including ATSC 3.0, all the providers will cut the service. You don’t have 4K video quality with 5 mbps.

A side note. NHK of Japan is about to roll out 8K and 8K sets are going on sale in Japan.

[dtvmcdonald]

Where am I "coming from"?

I'm from Champaign IL in Concast land, at $200 per month ... but not for much longer.

I'm simply reporting the horrendous quality of our service. There are NO
channels I subscribe to ("140 channels") that are acceptable
quality. None at any resolution. Every channel except the lowest res
ones has pixelization on fast action. The so-called HD ones
appear to have maybe 1200 pixels resolution on sharp edges. On flat areas
like faces its much lower ... say 200 across the screen at 5, not 8 bits.
This is called "pasty faces". One can see MPEG wiggles around every
sharp line. On some talking head shows I see not 60 or 30 Hz refresh but rather 4 Hz for the background. You can see the horrendous low-bit
MPEG background squares change at that rate and no faster!

Our local over the air stations all have one so-called HD channel
and three SD ones. The HD shows all the same problems as Comcast,
just not as bad.

Edit: I just rechecked. Out local PBS station, WILL, is currently refreshing the middle background
MPEG squares (at most 4 colors per square, vertical or horizontal gradient only) at 1Hz.
They are constant for a whole second.

[Jeffhs]

[QUOTE=dtvmcdonald;3197145]Where am I "coming from"?

I'm from Champaign IL in Concast land, at $200 per month ... but not for much longer./QUOTE]

Just out of curiosity, where will you get your TV service if you drop Comcast? Are you in a part of Champaign, Illinois that gets half-decent or better reception of the area's local channels? If so, your decision to drop cable and become a "cord cutter" is a good idea, but if one or more local stations are "iffy" or just plain do not reach you with an antenna, then I would stay with Comcast. I would check to see if they have a lower-priced package than what you presently subscribe to; most cable operators do offer several different tiers of service, the lowest-priced of which will deliver local channels only. Another alternative would be YouTube TV, if such is available in your area; I think it is available in the Chicago area, but I'm not sure about central or southern Illinois. I live in northeastern Ohio and have Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable) streaming TV service, which delivers local channels plus up to ten additional ones (I have seven such channels to date on my service). I don't know if Spectrum is available in your area, but I'd look into it. If it is available in Chicago and environs it is probably also available elsewhere in your state.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by dtvmcdonald

Where am I "coming from"?

I'm from Champaign IL in Concast land, at $200 per month ... but not for much longer.

I'm simply reporting the horrendous quality of our service. There are NO
channels I subscribe to ("140 channels") that are acceptable
quality. None at any resolution. Every channel except the lowest res
ones has pixelization on fast action. The so-called HD ones
appear to have maybe 1200 pixels resolution on sharp edges. On flat areas
like faces its much lower ... say 200 across the screen at 5, not 8 bits.
This is called "pasty faces". One can see MPEG wiggles around every
sharp line. On some talking head shows I see not 60 or 30 Hz refresh but rather 4 Hz for the background. You can see the horrendous low-bit
MPEG background squares change at that rate and no faster!

Our local over the air stations all have one so-called HD channel
and three SD ones. The HD shows all the same problems as Comcast,
just not as bad.

Edit: I just rechecked. Out local PBS station, WILL, is currently refreshing the middle background
MPEG squares (at most 4 colors per square, vertical or horizontal gradient only) at 1Hz.
They are constant for a whole second.

I’m originally from Milwaukee, then Lake Geneva about 200 miles North of you. As a television enthusiast, I remember cable and the inferior quality you are talking about. When it rained the video quality degraded with cable. This was in the 70’s and 80’s. The only choices were OTA, cable and later the 12 foot diameter satellite dishes. No HD, no 4K.

Then DirectTV came along in 1992. I quickly switched to DirectTV. Been with them for 25 years. My DirectTV bill went up to $179 a month. Just recently, I ordered their new 4K server with 4 clients. They dropped my bill by $92 for a year! That is why I’ve stayed with them all these years, they always worked with me. Over the 25 years, Direct TV technology evolved. I saw some of the artifacts you describe and now and again some channels had problems but they always seemed to get resolved, so again stuck with them.

We have Comcast in our area and I won’t touch it. I gather you are are talking about Comcast cable service or both including some streaming services?

I mentioned this before, it you want acceptable 4K service, you need at least 25 mbps Internet speed for streaming. If you are streaming, what is your internet speed?

This thread is about 4K UHD. No, I don’t think the providers will cut 4K service to 5mbps. Adoption of 4K for your home is not for casual viewing. If all you care about is a nice acceptable image, HD is fine. For 4K you need a large screen to appreciate the higher resolution. Your not going to see an improvement on a 55 inch panel. You need to think about lighting, invest in high speed internet and currently the best quality is UHD 4K Blu-Ray disks, so you will need a Blu-Ray player. Many folks want the best sound with their 4K video, so they invest in high quality multi channel sound systems. Some folks don’t like physical media. I come from an era when I adopted Betamax, VHS, CD, Laser Disk, and DVD. Physical media doesn’t bother me. In fact, being from the old school I looked down on streaming, now I embrace it.

I appreciate where your coming from with your cable service. 4K is a whole new ball game and if I live long enough I’m sure I will embrace 8K.

[Penthode]

SI Police Alert!

mb/s = millibits per second

Mb/s = megabits per second

[Jeffhs]

I have a 720p Insignia 19" flat screen TV, with Spectrum Choice TV streaming service. What, if anything, would I see on this TV when watching 4K video? If the answer is "nothing", what will I need to do to see anything on a TV like mine (install a cable box, adapter, etc.)? I don't want to use a cable box if I can avoid it (do not want the extra charge on my cable bill, and I do not want another box as I already have a Roku 2 Internet device with the Roku Spectrum TV app).

BTW, I think the cable companies are really trying their darndest to get as much money from subscribers as they can, through cable box rental fees. I wish I could drop cable, but my TV reception is not the best (I do not receive two network affiliates, CBS and FOX, with an antenna, although I get every other Cleveland local TV station just fine).

Sheeeeesh......... This is making me wonder if it is even worth it to have cable. I have YouTube TV, which delivers all my local stations except PBS and local Fox news, so if I dropped cable I would officially be a cord cutter. YT TV is actually a great service except for the lack of PBS, especially with its cloud DVR service; however, I do wonder why it does not carry PBS, which is a non-commercial network. Because it is a non-commercial network, cable companies would not (at least should not, IMHO) be charged exorbitant carriage fees as there are for any streaming or cable service which carries the major broadcast networks. I can get PBS by using a separate app, but it would be so much better if the network were included on Youtube TV. Does anyone here know if this is just an oversight on the part of YT TV, or is the service arbitrarily and deliberately omitting PBS goodness only knows why--or for no reason whatsoever?