UHF TV in England...

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Wow, you are lucky, the VHF channels seem to be more difficult to receive in many areas. What is your general area?

jr

My residence is 41 miles north of Milwaukee, WI. My workshop is 26 miles north, both a short distance from Lake Michigan.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

My residence is 41 miles north of Milwaukee, WI. My workshop is 26 miles north, both a short distance from Lake Michigan.

WIWN (68 virtual) is transmitted on ch5, and WMVS (10 virtial) is transmitted on ch8...are these out of range for you?

jr

[TV-collector]

Originally Posted by AlanInSitges

We had UHF-equipped sets in Spain in 1963 (I'm looking at one right now) though according to the official history of TVE, they didn't start broadcasting on the UHF band until 1966 with the introduction of TVE2. I cannot believe they were building and selling UHF-equipped sets with nothing to receive for three years before the TVE2 launch, so maybe there is some discrepancy in the history.

I have a beautiful collection of vintage spanish TV sets. I don`t know
a pre-1966 TV with a factory build-in UHF tuner.
I have closeby all schematics of spanish TV sets and collected spanish
TV guides.
When you look at the history of Spain you have to realize that Spain was
a poor country.
To sell TVs in higher numbers many of these sets had small 47 cm tubes,
a good way to sell for low budget.
I have a 1963 spanish made Telefunken TV set, looks like the german
original, but is shrinked to a 47cm diameter CRT and without UHF!
I am not sure about Philips, have to check that at schematics.
But spanish TV sets had no UHF before the official start in 1966.
One of my 1959 sets has an after market UHF tuner.

Regards,
TV-collector

[Colly0410]

In the early 1970's my parents bought a Sony KV1800: It only had a UHF rotary tuner (which were very unusual on English sets) but there was a square blanking plate just below where I presume a VHF tuner would have gone if it went anywhere else in the world but England. Most English made single standard 625 kines sets back then had push button UHF only tuners with 4 buttons that could tune to any UHF broadcast channel, they were marked from top to bottom: BBC1, BBC2, ITV & the fourth button would on some sets say ITV2, (there never was an ITV2 back then, there is now though) & some with just a * on it. People living in ITV overlap areas could receive an alternative ITV station & this was tuned in on button 4. When channel 4 (channel 4 was the station name not the broadcast channel, it was broadcast from hundreds of transmitters on nearly all UHF channels) fired up in 1982 that was then tuned to button 4, people who had previously tuned it to another ITV TX were then chockered. Later sets had 6 or 8 buttons on their tuners, then came remote controls...

[DavGoodlin]

Is the UHF in Great Britain grouped into "bands", band 1 being the channels 14-30, band 2 is chs. 31-40, etc?

It seems that a broadband UHF antenna like a simple bow-tie, so common in North America since the UHF band brought TV reception to smaller cities in 1952, is not the go-to UHF in the UK.

There seemed to be more Yagis, selected bands instead of the entire former spectrum.

I have tested over a dozen UHF-only antennas of several types, many vintage and some new ones. Often wondered if "tuning" them to the present spectrum of 470-614 Mhz would make them even better.

Looking at 50+ year old antennas still on houses, gives some clue to what works in that location. Many of those cute little imported antennas with built in rotators would do nothing in some of the locations I see upstate in wooded mountain areas, but the simple 4-bay was a miracle to many trying to pull in UHF and a Parabolic to those most desperate for reception.

Example: 4 and 8-bay bowtie arrays work better in scattered signal locations such as behind evergreen trees BUT a Yagi or corner reflector bowtie will still have the edge on a weak signal with no close-by obstructions.

[ppppenguin]

UHF in the UK is Band IV for channels 21 -37, Band V for channels 38-68. Antennae are grouped according to which set of channels your local transmitter uses. Wideband antennas are common but give less gain. Most antennas are some variant of a multi-element yagi. Log periodic antennas seem to be getting more popular. They give a flatter response and cleaner polar diagram than a yagi.

[pgnl]

For those that are interested in UK/European UHF Antennas/Aerials.

I just had my UHF TV aerial changed, there was water in the cable. it was one like the one below. It was wideband channels 21-68. The new one is a log periodic UHF 21-60 like the one below. I live about 25 miles from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter. Each multiplex is output at 200kw, both new and old require a mast top amplifier and power supply in the house.

Interestingly, modern aerials use F-Connectors (like satellite TV) and not traditional aerial plugs or hard wired.

The old one was on a 10ft pole - the new one a less rattly 6ft...

Needless to say i get all eight Freeview Multiplex’s perfectly, almost £200 down... oh well.

Patrick
North Worcestershire, UK

[ppppenguin]

Hi Patrick. That's a nice looking log periodic.

Since this is mainly a left-pondian forum the subject of aerial connectors may need a bit of explaining. Most of the world including the USA has used F connectors for aerials for many years. It's really only the UK that has kept the traditional Belling-Lee co-ax connector. To a lesser extent it's used in the rest of Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

The F connector is a much better connector. Better screening, better return loss. Easier to wire too. Though you do need the correct size conenctor for the cable and the simple versions only work with solid core co-ax.

[pgnl]

The UK traditional aerial plug and socket is actually used in the vast majority of countries around the world on TV sets - its often called a PAL connector, but was also used in SECAM countries. The main exceptions to this rule is ex NTSC and North/South American countries where they use the F-Connector.

France actually had a similar slightly smaller plug on their early TVs but changed to the Bulgin Lee type, I suspect in the seventies. The Germans had a special two pin plug. Some Japanese portable sets, had either screw connectors or 3.5mm pin socket similar to a headphone socket today.

Over the years I have looked on the net at the aerial connectors on TVs all over the place, most countries in the fifties, sixties and early seventies used 300ohm flat cables with screw connectors, then converted. We had a 1955 Philips 405 line TV which had a UK Coaxial standard aerial socket, so I think the British may have been forerunners in using coaxial aerial cables on TV sets. Coaxial Cable of course helps prevent break in interference.

As you say, the F-Connector is more secure and better suited for satellite and aerial cables with a copper core and copper braid/sheath along its length. My first device with an F-connector, here in the UK was a Sony ST-3950 Stereo Tuner, I bought it in 1979, a beautiful device. It was supplied with a plug that required a crimp tool to fit. F-Connectors were of course used from the late eighties in Europe on Satellite TV, so F-Connectors are everywhere now, but TV sets outside ex-NTSC countries still use the UK type plug.

[DavGoodlin]

Originally Posted by pgnl

For those that are interested in UK/European UHF Antennas/Aerials.

I just had my UHF TV aerial changed, there was water in the cable. it was one like the one below. It was wideband channels 21-68. The new one is a log periodic UHF 21-60 like the one below. I live about 25 miles from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter. Each multiplex is output at 200kw, both new and old require a mast top amplifier and power supply in the house.

Interestingly, modern aerials use F-Connectors (like satellite TV) and not traditional aerial plugs or hard wired.

The old one was on a 10ft pole - the new one a less rattly 6ft...

Needless to say i get all eight Freeview Multiplex’s perfectly, almost £200 down... oh well.

Patrick
North Worcestershire, UK

The antenna on the left looks like a shorter version of the Antennas Direct XG-91. I own one and it is not a rugged unit at all, having a mixture of aluminum and ferrous components plus snap-in plastic stuff but it works about as good as my other Yagi UHF antennas on band IV.

The antenna on the right looks exactly like a Blonder Tongue design, which is an expensive one in the US due it's commercial-duty market. I have yet to find or try one of them. Since the US has retained all the previous VHF and only the UHF channels 14-36, former UHF designs (ch. 14-69) could all use some tweaks now.

The US has many areas that are extremely difficult to cover with UHF, VHF was retained because it is less affected by trees, hills, etc.

[pgnl]

The one on the left, lasted me about 25 years (mine didn't have much plastic) but was attached to a high chimney and used to rattle. If it hadn’t been for the cable I think it would probably still work now. The aerial fitter disuaded me from having one of the fan type (like below) UHF arrays for the reason you mention, they tend to fall apart.

I will never understand why the UK didnt re-use VHF for TV after 405 line was switched off in 1985. I think we must have been the only country in the world to have TVs with UHF only tuners. Simple for tuning of course, but it meant portable TVs rarely worked properly without a rooftop aerial. Kinda missing the point, even so Casio sold loads of portable handhelds in the UK, just look on the ‘bay.

Of course we now have DVB-T and T2 digital TV which means most folk can receive 70 odd channels, not the previous 5. Plus free to air satellite with even more and we have the internet for portable devices..

[Colly0410]

The vast majority of TV's sold in Britain after 1970 were only fitted with a UHF tuner, I'm presuming that we were the only country in the world that did this. You'd see the odd one with a VHF tuner, I'm presuming that this was so they could be sold in Ireland or other system I countries that used VHF...

[Telecolor 3007]

In Spain they where also U.H.F. only.

[Colly0410]

When UHF became de facto normal here in UK there were lots of areas that had poor reception compared to VHF, so they built many relay stations: These would usually be on a hill or high ground & receive a signal from a main station & re-transmit it on another channel, usually with vertical polarisation to reduce co-channel interference. In some mountainous areas they'd have relay stations relaying another relay station. There were a few places where they'd have a daisy chain of relay stations relaying one after another, what/where the longest daisy chain was I don't know...

[kf4rca]

Circular polarization is supposed to overcome those obstacles. CP came out in the 80's here. Many stations adopted it. It required the addition of a second transmitter. So those stations had double ERP.
https://www.tvtechnology.com/opinion...r-polarization