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Old 10-31-2015, 02:15 AM
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Tubejunke Tubejunke is offline
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"ATOMIC" G-E 408 Ebay Morphed into Zenith!!

Some Ebay vintage electronics listings can be SO ridiculous and often very deceptive. Somebody has what I consider to be a fairly run of the mill G-E model 408 title listed as a "VINTAGE SYMPHONY HALL HALF MOON WORKING ATOMIC AM-FM TUBE RADIO, WORKS" Then down in his written descriptive that will and perhaps has generated the bids he goes into a big to do about how the radio is nearly in mint condition; almost perfect. Finally he throws out something to the effect of: Don't let this once in a lifetime ZENITH pass you by!!!

Now the scary part is that it sits at $92.00 with 20 bids and 10hrs left to go until the high speed Internet last second triggers get pulled by what I believe to be "collectors" of sorts with perhaps more money than knowledge about real world value and other aspects of radio collecting and/or restoration.

I don't want this to turn into a rant. Really, I get a chuckle out of a lot of what I see. With this character I sent a message telling him that I owned the country's largest electronic communications museum and that we were prepared to throw out 4 digit figures if he could verify that it really was an "atomic" radio perhaps the product of special collaboration in nuclear physics in radio and television by G-E and Zenith during and after WW2!!!

I also told him that I had contacted the F.C.C. as well as the A.T.F. in regards to the safe and legal sale and shipment of plutonium based products to protect us from government red tape!! Finally I asked if he thought that it was safe.... Sorry, I know this was a bit over the top, but so was the advertisement, and I seem to see more and more FALSE upward price trends based on one charlatan getting lucky and then every "estate auction" attendee on the face of the planet is digging up the same stuff and the prices rise quickly.

What are some opinions here on the G-E 408 if anyone is even familiar with them. Early 50s I think, AA5, Bakelite case. I say its a $50 radio varying up or down on condition. There are a couple of simple Philco Transitone models that are on this weird swing. I have them pictured in a classified post here as I have both with cracked cases and seek replacements. One is the Philco 51-532 I think. I have seen it called the "robot head." The other is a late 40s model that people call the "Hippo." Again, plain AA5, Bakelite sets.

Now any Philco to me is a good Philco; or can be. From the 30s through the 50s they made some GREAT performing yet simple, easily repaired (often) radios and TVs (save the Predicta).

I know often words aren't much without pictures and my pictures are posted already in the classifieds. VK won't let you duplicate shots. I may snag some from the Web soon and post for those who aren't familiar with these models. You can look up the ATOMIC GE ZENITH on Praybay!
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:16 AM
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Ebay update: Seller responded in a message that I don't have a clue. The "atomic" adjective he used was based on the very small symbol of an atom that these (and others) radios have on the tuning knob. He/she instructed me not to bid on the radio.

I chose to leave the joke as it stands; a joke of a sales pitch or dare I say tactic. My message probably really freaked the guy out if he thought that there was a bit of truth to it, or even if he didn't he could see that me winning the radio would result in a big mess as I could easily claim that I didn't get an "atomic "General Electric "Zenith."

Maybe I should message him that I will sell him the one I have for $25. Plus $30 shipping. That would work for me!
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:35 AM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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I'm surprised Eric Fogel answered you.

This radio is one of several GE radios nicknamed "atomic" by collectors for the symbol on it, just as he told you. An even more popular GE "atomic" model is the model 861/862 series (as seen on "Leave it to Beaver").

He's been known to describe his radios using keywords that will bring out buyers, and has done very well doing so. The Zenith reference was just a remnant of the template he used to update an old listing to this new one so he doesn't have to keep typing a lot of the same text for each listing. He's been selling radios on eBay (for often fantastic sums) for years, and has a very loyal group of deep-pocketed buyers.

To view some of his past sale successes, check out his feedback page.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller

.
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:12 AM
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I wondered after I posted last night if in this small world he would be known, or even be a member here. I imagine I would have to have the post deleted if a war got started as I did sort of jerk his chain.

I stand firm though on a dislike of trickery to make a buck, but unfortunately that's the world I live in and I guess if the guy found an angle based on other peoples ignorance then it's not his fault. P.T. Barnum was right in saying that there is a sucker born every day! LOL! I hope he doesn't do Best Offer deals now that I have found him. I love sending low ball offers on overpriced items also.

Just so everyone doesn't think that I am just some nasty person with nothing better to do I want to say that in all my years of collecting and sometimes selling vintage electronic equipment, I have always done it for the love of it and the preservation of the technology and knowledge of what makes it tick. It's never been about money although we all have to skim off some dead weight now and again. Sometimes I may need to make at least some of an investment back if possible. I try to be very fair in anything I price as if I were the buyer. This mindset is why I love this Website as I believe it to be populated by a lot of like minded folks. There are good folks who share the ideals I mentioned here.

I have had things given to me here and I have given some just to know something found a home and not a garbage dump, Some people here will mail you a tube or maybe even a whole radio for no reason other than they have it and you need it. That's my kind of people and thinking. To Hades with guys like this Ebay seller(s)!!!
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Old 11-01-2015, 08:00 AM
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init4fun init4fun is offline
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Hi Tubejunke ,

The person you are discussing is "Radios 10467" on Ebay . My earlier post didn't look good in print so I decided to edit it to say , just go to ARF (Antique Radio Forums) and type that name into the search bar . There , you will learn all you need to know about him ......

Last edited by init4fun; 11-01-2015 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:33 AM
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Tubejunke Tubejunke is offline
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Hey Init4fun! Thanks for the good words. I got to read what you first posted as VKs email alert for replies captures the next post (I thought only part of it) to any thread you participate in so you can check it out without necessarily logging in.

What you said brought all of what I have been seeing as a pretty new buyer on Ebay into complete perspective. Out of respect for you I will not elaborate on specifically what you said, but I will tell you that I have seen and/or suspected what you mentioned time and again. I am really ignorant to all of the tricks of the trade of auctions short of stories I have heard about local automobile auctions.

Ebay by nature of the business model offers virtually unlimited angles for scammers. I'm afraid that it isn't just the general public that is victimized. I think USPS shipping insurance may be getting hit hard.

Tell me how else I get a wooden radio in an undamaged, un-crushed container that has it's whole face pushed in as if it took a good blow from a sledge. Then I get a total refund without question or complaint, or even the pictures I offered. I'm not complaining as I didn't get hurt. I got a good, working, shortwave 1930s chassis for free. I don't understand that at all. It would seem that USPS would require some sort of evidence. Anyone can drum up photos these days. Heck $20 bills for that matter! LOL!

OK folks, do YOU have any odd stories to tell about online auctions, purchases, sales trickery such as shill bidding ect.? I think this may be better off done as a totally new thread so I believe I will just start that in the next few days. Hold that thought.......
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:36 AM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
The "gent" you are discussing is "Radios 10467" on Ebay . He has been proven time and again to use shill bidders , and for proof all one needs to do is to go to the "Antique Radio Forums" site and type radios 10467 into the search bar there . Course , you should do this when you've got an hour or few to kill , in order to have time to read all the negative threads that come up on that scammer ! Any guy whose got 16 negative ratings out of less than 1500 completed transactions on Ebay for the past year is someone to steer clear of no matter what he is selling . Guys like him do great harm to the hobby with his sky high prices and phony bidders . I can recall at least 5 different desirable radios he "sold" for crazy high prices , only to turn around in a month or few and list the exact same radio for sale again ! Now if it WAS a "completed sale' , and not a shill bidder , just how could he offer and sell the same radio twice ? Like you , I am and have always been into the collecting hobby for the preservation of electronic technology from the early years , rather than to turn a quick buck from the unsuspecting public who thinks it'd be cool to have an old radio on the mantle , but have no education on fair prices for the average old set .
Yes, a lot has been written about Eric over there, and a lot of it is true, but also a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon accusing him of using shills in auctions where the evidence just doesn't support those claims. I myself have seen and accused him of reselling the same radio repeatedly, and I am convinced he uses (or used) shills at times. But most of his auctions seem to have legitimate deep-pocketed buyers that also spend a lot of money on other people's auctions, so those accounts do not support all the shill accusations.

His tactics and ethics are often questionable with some legitimacy, but it really does appear that most of his auctions are "real".

As far as having about 1% of his auctions getting bad feedback, that is not that unusual when the seller is offering high-dollar items and over-inflating their descriptions. People are a lot less likely to complain when buying $25 items than they will when they spend 10 to 20 times that amount. Obviously a lot of the radios are not going to be as good as they look in the pictures and not bring the joy to the buyer as promised in the descriptions. A lot of buyers will have "buyers remorse" after they get the radio in their hands and see it is not 100% as described. Eric likes to hype all the good things about his stuff, while avoiding mentioning (or showing in the pictures) their faults. In such cases, it is not unusual for a sale to not go through, or the item gets returned and thus gets relisted and sold again. His methods are no different than the salesmanship tactics used car dealers have employed for generations.

.
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Old 11-03-2015, 03:28 PM
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Electronic M Electronic M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubejunke View Post
Tell me how else I get a wooden radio in an undamaged, un-crushed container that has it's whole face pushed in as if it took a good blow from a sledge. Then I get a total refund without question or complaint, or even the pictures I offered. I'm not complaining as I didn't get hurt. I got a good, working, shortwave 1930s chassis for free. I don't understand that at all. It would seem that USPS would require some sort of evidence. Anyone can drum up photos these days. Heck $20 bills for that matter! LOL!
I have relatives that used to work for UPS (a USPS contractor IIRC). They described how on truck loading and unloading they would toss packages person to person in bucket brigade like fashion, and if the package looked heavy they would simply choose not to catch it....That was 20+ years ago. Now there is much more automated package sorting machines that drop boxes 2'+ often onto their corners or smaller packages, etc.

Case in point: I bought a 1962-3 SC tin can monochrome Zenith from a guy through a classified ad on the ETF. It had been the guy's parents' set, had been lovingly cared for, and he was giving it away (for the cost of shipping since I was not local) to see it go to a good home. He packed it well 4"+ of bubble wrap and a sturdy box (he would have double boxed it but for that with just the single box it was at the USPS size limit) ,remote and knobs sent separately, etc.....The box had a tiny amount of almost un-noticable damage on the side....The set had a quarter-ish sized dent in the side of it's sturdy Steel cabinet. The box must have been dropped on something like a steel pole to do that. Given how the guy I bought it from was (I talked with him on the phone a few times) I do NOT believe that he would have damaged the set like that.....He even bothered to send me the instructions and dealer hang tag when he found them a year later.
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Old 11-04-2015, 12:53 AM
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Tubejunke Tubejunke is offline
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Yes, being a TV guy as well as radio, I have long read of shipping nightmares among that crowd of us. Because of reading the stories, I have thus far never bought a TV that had to be shipped; nor have I sold one. It can be done, but I believe it's along the lines of having it professionally packed and/or placed on a train or bus even. I know the bus sounds far fetched, but I have read of it being done somehow.

Then there are truckers who are known by certain folks that offer possibilities, but as for the standard UPS or USPS pack and pray, I'm just not risking getting or giving a box of glass that just can't be replaced. As I said earlier, to me it's not all about the money. It's mostly about the item and it's preservation.
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Old 11-04-2015, 02:16 PM
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init4fun init4fun is offline
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Thank You guys for not seeing my previous post as "dragging garbage in the room" , I myself was worried that it would look bad so I changed it . But , since we all don't mind discussing it , heck yea I think overinflated Ebay listings do a terrible disservice to the hobby since most folks never look at completed sales when deciding on the price of something . Guys like Eric have half the world thinking their common as dirt AA5 sets are their ticket to Ebay gold , and it's these entry level sets that new folks in the hobby need to practice on . Now for sure anyone who regularly checks Ebay and all the other sites knows what the average set is worth but for every one of us I'll bet there are a hundred folks who've found an old radio in their basement/attic and thanks to Eric they think it's worth a fortune . At the end of the day I guess Jim is right about "buyer beware" it's just sad to see a hobby such as ours infiltrated by as Jim so aptly described "used car salesmen" types . Oh , one other thought here , Tubejunke is spot on about dishonest sellers shipping pre damaged goods specifically to get the shipper to eat the loss ! I know of a few instances myself of damaged goods showing up in perfect boxes , pre broken ....
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Thank You guys for not seeing my previous post as "dragging garbage in the room" , I myself was worried that it would look bad so I changed it . But , since we all don't mind discussing it , heck yea I think overinflated Ebay listings do a terrible disservice to the hobby since most folks never look at completed sales when deciding on the price of something . Guys like Eric have half the world thinking their common as dirt AA5 sets are their ticket to Ebay gold , and it's these entry level sets that new folks in the hobby need to practice on . Now for sure anyone who regularly checks Ebay and all the other sites knows what the average set is worth but for every one of us I'll bet there are a hundred folks who've found an old radio in their basement/attic and thanks to Eric they think it's worth a fortune . At the end of the day I guess Jim is right about "buyer beware" it's just sad to see a hobby such as ours infiltrated by as Jim so aptly described "used car salesmen" types . Oh , one other thought here , Tubejunke is spot on about dishonest sellers shipping pre damaged goods specifically to get the shipper to eat the loss ! I know of a few instances myself of damaged goods showing up in perfect boxes , pre broken ....
Interesting that you mention that, because I once bought an old Grundig tabletop radio from someone on ebay once and when I looked at the pictures on the radio in question the radio wasn't damaged but when I got it in the mail the box wasn't damaged but yet the radio was, it had a couple of spots on it where the Bakelite (or whatever the German version of Bakelite was called) was broken in big chunks off of the sides of the rear of the cabinet, and then the fuse was missing, but of course I didn't know any better at the time so I just assumed it got damaged in the mail...
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