Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Antique Radio

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:31 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by WISCOJIM View Post
I agree Dave, that was a very dim evaluation of a high quality set that may need relatively easy work as the cabinet appears as though it may be in good condition which is often the hardest thing to fix. Done several 16's myself, with a little patience and good work habits, they are not that difficult to do. And seeing how the owner already has the set, there is no reason not to use this set with the Bakelite blocks as a great learning experience.

.
I didn't say he couldn't I was just saying if it were me (and since I don't have much experience with pre-war radios mostly post war radios) I would of passed on it because from what I saw in the picture the speaker was trashed to the point that there was nothing left of it say for 2 pieces hanging on by a thread so to speak (and repairing that speaker or sourcing a "new" one can be quite difficult especially trying to source another speaker like it had in there originally.
I know for a fact that my 1932 vintage Cathedral radio I have had a damaged speaker that thankfully was still fully intact enough for a simple unbleached coffee filter paper repair but if I wouldn't of been able to of been repaired, I looked to see if another speaker like it could of been sourced just in case, and sure enough it couldn't, because of it being a 1930s Utah speaker and those are rarer than hen's teeth.

The Grille Cloth is also missing which if you don't know what it had in there orginally then it can be hard to get the right grille cloth for the unit.

The cabinet from what I could see while no veneer is peeling off, the original finish appears to be shot which trying to refinish these old Cathedral radio cabinets can be tricky especially the fancier ones because you have to try and get the finish to go on evenly within all of those little crevices in the moulding without it dripping and even stripping those cabinets can be a pain because of those various crevices in the fancy moulding.
Anyways I was just saying that if it were me I would of passed on something that were in that kind of condition because with my expertise level (which is pretty much non-existent when it comes to working on pre-war radios) I wouldn't of bothered with it unless it was known to be an extremely easy radio to service.

That's all I was saying, I wasn't implying that it was a bad radio or that the radio wasn't a high end radio or whatever, I was just saying that in my position if I saw a radio like that that had a severely damaged speaker and no grille cloth and unknown condition guts, I wouldn't personally bother with it.

Referring back to my experience with seeing a late 1920s RCA Table Radio (Tombstone style) at an antique mall for an extremely good price but then it was because the cabinet was trashed (severe water damage and severe veneer peeling issues with the cabinet alone).

Then it looked like the guts had mice living in it several times in its life as the chassis was severely corroded by mice pee and wires were chewed clear through in critical areas including in the IF Cans, and the original cloth cord was pretty much gone and the dial string was broken and the tuning capacitor was seized up (you couldn't turn the tuning capacitor with your hands) which is why I had to pass up on the radio even though it may very well have been an extremely valuable unit once fixed up.
But to even restore that unit one would of had to sink more money into the unit than it might of been worth.

And the OP was asking for people's opinions on the unit, and so I gave my opinion on it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:10 PM
Boobtubeman's Avatar
Boobtubeman Boobtubeman is offline
<---WANTED: Motorola 17P6
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Woodland Ca.
Posts: 755
Easy guys--- eeeasy

I value ALL the input ive received so far.... The UPS and the DOWNS..

I admit feeling a bit over my head in this one and a bit apprehensive after watching the youtube videos posted, But i have to admit the end result, looked pretty cool.. Seen some things about the radio that i wasnt aware existed... The tuning eye (shadow meter) is pretty neat setup, And the 2 speed tuning is cool...

I now understand the BAKELITE CAPS that were discussed, i was expecting round paper caps with clear uf and volt values marked, this may be a challenge to me on part#s and schematic drawings, (some hard to read)..

Ive used the faucet washers to hold the tuning gang in place before

Hoping my scattered shop and tools are up to this task... Meanwhile, gonna go watch the series on youtube..

Thanks again for your inputs..

SR
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:15 PM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 8,752
IIRC Philco repair bench had a good table of block cap part numbers with an explanation of their contents (my go-to resource), but I just checked and I can't find it, along with a good portion of their site...What happened to them?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
I didn't say he couldn't I was just saying if it were me (and since I don't have much experience with pre-war radios mostly post war radios) I would of passed on it because from what I saw in the picture the speaker was trashed to the point that there was nothing left of it say for 2 pieces hanging on by a thread so to speak (and repairing that speaker or sourcing a "new" one can be quite difficult especially trying to source another speaker like it had in there originally.
There are many places that specialize in re-coning speakers. If the voice and field (if not PM type) coils have continuity, that is a good option.

If the speaker is beyond professional help there is always a way to spec a new one (of any vintage including brand new). The most important thing is geometry and diameter. If it is the same mounting size you don't have to modify the cabinet, and there are ways to make it work electrically. Getting the same voice coil impedance is important to reusing the same audio output transformer, but there are ways around that. Speaker impedance matching transformers exist, and one can spec new audio output transformers by knowing/finding the plate impedance of the original and getting one that matches that to the impedance of the new speaker. If the original had a field coil you can use a PM type speaker and substitute the field coil in the power supply circuit with a power resistor or preferably a choke of similar impedance....Sure it is part of the power supply filter circuit, but there is a lot of fudge factor in those designs, and if you've got some spare parts to play with it can be arrived at easily with experimentation. Knowing theory of operation, and associated maths helps the process greatly and helps ensure it will work best the first try.

It is good to know your skill level, but challenging yourself, learning new techniques, and approaching things by not assuming things are impossible/impractical will help you grow...Thirst for knowledge helps too.

...That said if you told me you were captinclock back under a new user name, I'd believe you...Your writing style/personality feels rather similar.
__________________
Tom C.

What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4

Reading between the scan lines since the mid 2000's.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:48 PM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
IIRC Philco repair bench had a good table of block cap part numbers with an explanation of their contents (my go-to resource), but I just checked and I can't find it, along with a good portion of their site...What happened to them?
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.walkingitaly.com/radio/cr...004/philco.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
...That said if you told me you were captinclock back under a new user name, I'd believe you...Your writing style/personality feels rather similar.
Hmmm...

.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:12 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
...That said if you told me you were captinclock back under a new user name, I'd believe you...Your writing style/personality feels rather similar.
And what if I was? Would you try to have me banned again?

CaptainClock mentioned many times that he has Autism, ADD, and ADHD, which with that said it makes it hard for people like that to communicate what they want to say without sounding a little standoffish because that's just the way they are its an issue that he was trying to work on every day and its tough to try and say something (especially on the internet) when you can't see the person's facial expressions to go with what they're saying.

So of course if someone said something about an old radio that they thought looked like it was going to be a little tricky to work on but then someone else came along and read what was being said and took that comment as being a mean nasty comment when the comment wasn't meant to be originally because the person couldn't see the facial expression of the person when the comment was initially posted, then of course there's going to be some problems.

That being said Levi (aka formerly CaptainClock on here) has had lots of trouble with cyber bullying and trolls on just about every single online forum he's ever been on.
The worst one was when he was a part of an art forum called deviantArt for a while and that website which was supposedly supposed to be a "friendly place for aspiring artists to hang out and share their artwork with others", was actually quite the opposite of what they claimed their website was, and he ended up in the end having a young woman and some of her friends on that website try and set him up to look like a pedophile (even though he isn't one) by hacking into his facebook page and computer and posting inappropriate pictures on his facebook page and what not just because he was attenpting to make friends with other fellow forum members so that he could have some people he could ask about his artwork.

Now that being said you can kind of understand why he takes offense to comments that people make that sound threatening to him.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #21  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:15 PM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
And what if I was? Would you try to have me banned again?
So, are you saying that you are not he who was once named "Captain Clock"?

.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:43 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by WISCOJIM View Post
So, are you saying that you are not he who was once named "Captain Clock"?

.
Read into it what you will, but I'm going leave it at that, and nothing else. I'll let you guys figure out who I am from my message.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-20-2017, 07:43 AM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sullivan, MO
Posts: 243
For the grille cloth I used the Whiskey Rayon pattern sold by Richmond Designs. I thought he used to sell a smaller size than 18x24 but maybe that is what I had bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182622096389
__________________
Sean - KBØOVD
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-20-2017, 10:31 AM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 8,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
And what if I was? Would you try to have me banned again?
Personal opinions aside (I was not the one who banned clock and did not mind him when he was not stirring up sh!t) it is against the forum rules to create multiple user accounts, and IIRC against the rules to return under a new user name when permanently banned...This transgression which you seem to be admitting to will likely result in you getting permanently banned again.

A certain well known/liked Michigan member was nearly banned over creating a second comedy account (sanjarali) once.

Rules are rules.

That said I'm issuing you a one day ban while I discuss whether or not to allow this return with the fellow moderators. If the others don't say "make it permanent" consider yourself lucky and be careful how you post. A certain conduct of discourse is expected here, and regardless of your circumstances if you make too much of a nuisance of yourself anywhere you will eventually get the boot...It is just how life works.

EDIT: Caribou Gone! https://youtu.be/M3-51DhOzHE?t=2m5s
__________________
Tom C.

What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4

Reading between the scan lines since the mid 2000's.

Last edited by Electronic M; 06-20-2017 at 06:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-20-2017, 08:01 PM
Tim R.'s Avatar
Tim R. Tim R. is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobtubeman View Post
Picked this up at a yard sale Saturday...And it was HEAVY...

Tubes all tested well, chassis label says 16. whats left of the tube chart says 16b...

Hoping the voice coil is okay as the cone is complete doo doo...

what are your experiences with overhauling this model??

The riders seems a bit hard to follow, is there a better schematic??

Lend me your input...

SR
Nice find! Someone else with a Philco 16B made a series of videos documenting the restoration of his set. They're on YouTube and I'd highly recommend watching all 30(!) of them.

With regards to your speaker, I just wrapped up a Philco 43B that has the same or a very similar speaker to yours. It was chewed up by rodents so after verifying the field coil was OK, I sent it off to be reconed. It only cost about $60, and I was very happy with the results.

Here's the link to part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDlI4cRlJKc&t=1s

EDIT: Just realized the link was posted earlier by Sean...should've read the thread more thoroughly!

Last edited by Tim R.; 06-20-2017 at 08:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #26  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:36 AM
Boobtubeman's Avatar
Boobtubeman Boobtubeman is offline
<---WANTED: Motorola 17P6
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Woodland Ca.
Posts: 755
Yeah ive been browsing them

Some neat features when its done. Some of it looks confusing, he jumps around a bit

SR
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:19 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
+1

Hundreds of feet of wire in a table radio?...Lol come on, seriously?

Those block caps are easy...With the right screw driver I can chip the guts out without heat in under a minute.



Most block cap era Philcos I only use the schematic to determine the pin-out of the ant and osc coils*. Just change the lytics, re-stuff the block caps using one of the internet references to determine their contents/pinout and if the ant and osc coils are good the chassis should work. Often the single layer ant and or osc coils are open (2 of 3 60 chassis I've serviced, and 2 of 2 80 chassis were open)...Often the break is near an end so deleting the corroded turn or two and reconnecting the end will fix it, but I've had some where the whole winding was full of opens....Those I just count the turns, remove the old and rewind the same number of turns with Radio Shack phono pickup wire (always works like a charm).
I talked to an old-time radio repairman, who had just finished a mid-30's Philco radio. I inquired if he replaced the bakelite block caps, He replied, that they never went bad.
I read, that they were "vacuum impregnated", so they did have a long life, but after 80+ years???
I use my $8.88 Harbor Freight heat gun and heat them a bit and the guts pop right out, with little effort.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:17 AM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 8,752
I've had a set work with it's original block caps....Albeit with terrible distortion, which changing those caps cured.

Paper caps are paper caps, even the best eventually fail. I'd bring a set with original block caps up on a variac any day, but I would not make it a regular player till those caps are re-stuffed.
__________________
Tom C.

What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4

Reading between the scan lines since the mid 2000's.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-21-2017, 01:26 PM
Tim R.'s Avatar
Tim R. Tim R. is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
I've had a set work with it's original block caps....Albeit with terrible distortion, which changing those caps cured.

Paper caps are paper caps, even the best eventually fail. I'd bring a set with original block caps up on a variac any day, but I would not make it a regular player till those caps are re-stuffed.
Amen to that. At first I took the "wait and see" approach to the chocolate blocks, but after two of them failed during bench testing, I just restuffed them all. As you and others mentioned, it was super easy to do and the end result looks factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean View Post
For the grille cloth I used the Whiskey Rayon pattern sold by Richmond Designs. I thought he used to sell a smaller size than 18x24 but maybe that is what I had bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182622096389
I used a similar, but slightly different, pattern from Richmond Designs on my restoration. I ended up with a ton of leftover grill cloth as well, but I don't see that as a problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobtubeman View Post

Ive used the faucet washers to hold the tuning gang in place before


SR
You'd be amazed by the sheer amount of repro parts out there for these radios. I was able to find repro tuner grommets for mine, as well as a new frame for the grill cloth and a knob for the tone control. I think you can even buy a whole cabinet if yours is too far gone...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-21-2017, 04:13 PM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,672
FWIW - I replaced the standard Philco chevron pattern on my 501X console, which uses the model 16 chassis. I got it from Antique Radio Supply but not sure if anyone makes that pattern yet. Radiodaze has some parts like chassis and tuning condenser grommets IIRC.

No Philco is restored until those cap blocks are done. My super-fast method: "nip" the internal cap wires from above, remove the 1/4 inch screws, spin the bottom upward without disconnecting anything if possible, heat and push with a small rod thru the middle top terminal rivet, the cap will pop right out so you can put the new one in. beware some of these cap blocks also contain resistors.

This radio is one precision unit, will sound amazing but nothing short of a full recapping is needed. I have had the 501 for almost 30 years and it worked on original caps initially. I sent my 501x's 12" speaker to Sound Remedy for a quality re-cone job.
__________________
Dave G
WTB: 15DP4
Cabinet for 1936 RCA 4T6, 5T6 or 5T8
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.