More early colour TV show questions

[Aussie Bloke]

Hi all. I've got some more questions in regards of early colour TV shows.

Now looking at this page on Ed Reitan's site http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/rca-nbc_firsts.html "The Esther Williams Aqua Spectacle" broadcasted on 29th September 1956 was recorded to colour film using the lenticular process. I am wondering does this film still exist and has there been any way of transferring/restoring this film to digital like those 1954 colour kinescope recordings as I read somewhere on the web in the past that there hasn't been a method developed yet to transfer lenticular colour films?

Also is there any other 1950s colour kinescope films recordings of TV shows out there?

And here's a rather bizarre question. I'm aware that the Milton Berle Show was in colour in the 50s, well maybe for some specials at least. Now I've seen a couple of Elvis Presley performances on his shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOcGOPY0n3w and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saJw_7APQ8E and I have a feeling those shows were originally done in colour. Reason behind this is that I've seen B&W kinescope clips from both B&W and colour shows of the 50s and it's pretty simple to distinguish between the two as with B&W cameras there's halos galore even with not so bright objects and with colour it takes brighter light to give off a halo due to the colour filters in the camera reducing the light to the IO tubes and so the pictures look more normal with hardly any halo, and in the case of these two classic Elvis performances there was no halo in the studio clip and the outdoor clip on the ship there was some halo when the guitars reflected the sunlight. So it brings me to this question, were these performances originally in living colour?

And stemming on from the Elvis question is another question, who was the first rock'n'roll singer/band to appear live in living colour? So far the earliest confirmed colour rock'n'roll performance is the Everly Brothers performing on the Tennessee Ernie Ford Show in 1961 which I have on DVD, and the colour is nice too.

[newhallone]

I have no clue. But I suggest people take a look at the Dr. Who restoration team website. They have come up with some cool techniques. It's a fun read.

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/

[jmdocs]

Re: The Berle shows. The TV listings for New York, Washington, DC and Chicago note the show as being in color. The LA Times listings don't. What likely happened was it was colorcast live to the Eastern and Central timezones and kinescoped in black-and-white for the west coast. This happened all the time--and was the reason NBC started using the "lenticular color" kinescopes. They were used pretty frequently for a couple of years until color tape came in. (Every so often the LA Times TV critic complained about their poor quality.) I have no idea if that or any other of the lenticular kines survives. I do know that Film Technology in LA figured out how to transfer early Kodacolor lenticular film, which is basically the predecessor of these kinescopes, to video in full color. Theoretically, if anyone came across one of these lenticular kines and had the time and money, it ought to be a relatively similar process. I think.

[Joel Cairo]

There **are** lenticular prints for at least **some** of NBC's shows of that period. Jerry Lewis has some from his NBC series in his archive, and since almost all of Berle's kines were finally located by NBC, it's pretty certain there must be some there, as well. Judging from the existing kines I've seen, at least one of the Berle/Presley shows originated in color, but from the known timeline, it would appear that all of Presley's NBC appearances (on the Berle & Steve Allen programs) pre-dated the use of the lenticular color kinescope process, so that makes it more unlikely that color footage of those shows exist.

The other issue is that no one has ever transferred an entire program from lenticular film. I was told that a set of color bars from the head of a reel was done by a transfer house, just to show that it was possible; but the price given to transfer a full program using the custom hardware setup was so expensive that it was considered prohibitive.

Having said that, though, the Peacock Network did (on occasion) make standard color kinescopes of some of their programs... there are extant examples of an episode of "Coke Time with Eddie Fisher" and a clip of Sam Cooke on "The Arthur Murray Party" (10/6/58).

To answer the "1st rock & roller on color TV" question, my first guess would probably be Elvis on the "Milton Berle Show" in 1956, but it should be noted that Bill Haley & the Comets performed on "The Milton Berle's Show" in October of 1955, so if someone can check their TV Guide listings, **that** may actually be the correct answer.

-Kevin

[jmdocs]

Question, perhaps a dumb one, re: the lenticular kinescopes. Were these 16mm or 35mm? I know Kodacolor was 16mm only, being a consumer format. But in the 50s the networks generally used 35mm kinescopes as their primary source for time-shifted programming; the 16mm kines were backups.

Another NBC color kine that still exists is of a 1957 Ernie Kovacs special.

[Joel Cairo]

Originally Posted by jmdocs

Question, perhaps a dumb one, re: the lenticular kinescopes. Were these 16mm or 35mm? I know Kodacolor was 16mm only, being a consumer format. But in the 50s the networks generally used 35mm kinescopes as their primary source for time-shifted programming; the 16mm kines were backups.

Another NBC color kine that still exists is of a 1957 Ernie Kovacs special.

The ones I've heard about are all 35mm.

And you're right-- I forgot about "Eugene". Man do I want to restore that show...!!

-Kevin

[Oldstuff78]

Kinescopes were a lousy way to save programs. I have been looking at some episodes of the old 60's show "Shindig". I can tolerate the grain, but it's sad to know that good quality prints do not exist. Most of American Bandstand early shows exist in this format also.

I was reading an article a while back where people were complaining that most daytime shows like soap operas, talk and game shows were discarded over the years when someone cleaned out the storage room. I also heard that some shows like soaps taped over older shows because they thought no one would be interested and now they have lived to regret it.

I'm going off topic, but I have noticed too that when you get episodes of Ozzie & Harriet from their last season (1965-1966), they are always black and white prints, which is strange since the final season was shot in color. This show needs to be restored and put on DVD by each season. Those DVD's floating around out there have horrible quality. The Nelson family even released a DVD set last year and the prints are un-restored and are syndication edited. One episode ran less than 19 minutes They did include 2 color shows from the last season, but they are kind of washy.

I'm off my soap box now.

[Joel Cairo]

edited...

[bozey45]

here is the ad from a LOOK Magazine I believe it was from 1956 for that Esther Williams Spectacular on Sept. 29. This has been framed for years and the color has deteriorated but it's still a great old ad for RCA color TV.

[KentTeffeteller]

Gentlemen,

A little perspective here. When Quadruplex videotape was introduced, 2" videotape was $300 a reel. One of the primary things which sold videotape was the ability to erase it. Back then the TV industry wasn't preservation minded and often local TV still isn't.

[Aussie Bloke]

Originally Posted by KentTeffeteller

Gentlemen,

A little perspective here. When Quadruplex videotape was introduced, 2" videotape was $300 a reel. One of the primary things which sold videotape was the ability to erase it. Back then the TV industry wasn't preservation minded and often local TV still isn't.

Yeah that's one of those things. And the primary use of videotape back then was to time-delay broadcasts as it was more cost-effective than 16mm kinescope films and also far better quality. As most television shows were live back then, I don't think TV stations really think that much for keeping their live shows preserved, even with kinescope films, I'm guessing they were primarily used for time-delay broadcasts too moreso than archiving.

As the years rolled on, people started realising the importance of preserving television history, unfortunately a little too late as tapes were not only erased but also destroyed to make way for space. This was the case with Hullabaloo, I read that in the mid 70s most of the tapes were destroyed which is why only about 3 shows exist in colour today.

Anyhow we can thank our lucky stars that at least some B&W and colour videotapes of the late 50s and early 60s still survive today and with what exists we can still get at least a 2nd hand experience of how good early live television looked back in the golden age of television, the 50s!!!

[Aussie Bloke]

Hey I've been reading on the Wikipedia site about quad videotape and it's been noted there that in 1976 when NBC had its 50th Anniversary special, they included an excerpt from a 1957 colour special featuring Donald O'Connor, so if this information is correct, there is surviving colour videotaped footage dating back to 1957!!! I know someone on YouTube who has this NBC 50th Anniversary special recorded on beta tape when it aired in 1976 so I'm going to see if he could upload that excerpt. My guess is that the tape existed in the 70s when the excerpt was used, but whether or not it still exists in the deep depths of a TV station archive is questionable. Anyhow here's the quote from that article on quad on the Wikipedia site:

In 1976, NBC's 50th anniversary special included an excerpt from a 1957 color special starring Donald O'Connor; despite some obvious technical problems, the color tape was remarkably good.

I've GOT to somehow get my hands on this footage or find out more about it at least!!!