1961 hand held color tv?

[Phototone]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

I don't think ANYBODY ever developed a flat COLOR CRT.Time ran out on 'em. And I doubt now one will ever be developed. I REALLY do wish those dreadful flat-screen thingies had NEVER been developed...CRTs 4Evah...(grin)

Indeed there WERE flat-screen color CRT tubes, used in almost all CRT sets in the last 10 years of CRT televisions, but they were flat-face tubes that still had a neck out back. I have a 36" Sony HD Flat Screen CRT TV set, and a few Flat screen CRT computer monitors. But they still are boxy because of the need for the neck of the tube in back.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Phototone

Indeed there WERE flat-screen color CRT tubes, used in almost all CRT sets in the last 10 years of CRT televisions, but they were flat-face tubes that still had a neck out back. I have a 36" Sony HD Flat Screen CRT TV set, and a few Flat screen CRT computer monitors. But they still are boxy because of the need for the neck of the tube in back.

We are really talking about "pancake" tubes that do not have the gun in the rear, not tubes that just have a flat faceplate:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread...highlight=flat

jr

[Sandy G]

The FIRST really, REALLY small color set was the Sony KV-4000/4001 from 1980....And then the 1.5 Panasonic CT-101, from '84. Now, Panasonic DID have the Mica 1 in 1969, that l'il 1.5" set...But that was a LONG way from '61...They could have benefitted from the space race & all the miniaturisation of components by then.

[crtfool]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

The FIRST really, REALLY small color set was the Sony KV-4000/4001 from 1980....And then the 1.5 Panasonic CT-101, from '84. Now, Panasonic DID have the Mica 1 in 1969, that l'il 1.5" set...But that was a LONG way from '61...They could have benefitted from the space race & all the miniaturisation of components by then.

All the sets that Sandy references are color, so what is the Mica 1? Is it a color set - I never heard of it - or is he referring to the TR-001 B&W set?

[julianburke]

Alright guys, hold it a moment here, you have been fooled or didn't look at the picture well enough for that 1966 Motorola hospital flat screen. Also the title may be bogus as well. Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!! Look at the unit behind the bed which shows that. Flat screen TV?? Where?? It isn't shown funny thing so the title could have been typed by anyone unknowingly. Looks like a plain ordinary article touting the hand held nurse call with TV controls in it that have been used for decades and is still in use today.

Assuming it "was" a TV in itself, it would not be appropriate for many hospital patients and would have been cost prohibitive.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by julianburke

Alright guys, you have been fooled here or didn't look at the picture well enough for that 1966 Motorola hospital flat screen. Also the title may be bogus as well. Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!! Look at the unit behind the bed which shows that. Flat screen TV?? Where?? Not shown funny thing so the title could have been typed by anyone unknowingly. Looks like a plain ordinary article touting the hand held nurse call with TV controls in it.

The key words in the Motorola description: "all in one unit" and "patients ... can operate a combination radio-TV ... "

One more photo of the working 6 inch two sided flat color CRT prototype in 1966: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by julianburke

Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!!

I had not looked at the Motorola link until I saw your comments. Indeed, why did anyone think that was a TV screen on the device in the picture? It is an all-in-one "control plus nurse-call device", exactly as hospitals have since used for decades, if I remember from the last time I was in a hospital room (visiting or staying, quite a while ago in either case). Such a device (without a TV screen) was newsworthy in 1966 in any case; the first time I stayed in a hospital after birth was for pneumonia in 1968. My mother rented a TV for me from the in-house company, that was wheeled into the room.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

I had not looked at the Motorola link until I saw your comments. Indeed, why did anyone think that was a TV screen on the device in the picture? It is an all-in-one "control plus nurse-call device", exactly as hospitals have since used for decades, if I remember from the last time I was in a hospital room (visiting or staying, quite a while ago in either case). Such a device (without a TV screen) was newsworthy in 1966 in any case; the first time I stayed in a hospital after birth was for pneumonia in 1968. My mother rented a TV for me from the in-house company, that was wheeled into the room.

My explaniation, I'm 66, been lucky only in a hospital once and that was in 1957. I remember a control unit to call nurses with a built in radio in that hospital. When I saw this photo and description, for 1966, what's so special unless it had a TV. That would make it news worthy.

[julianburke]

In 1966 Motorola was trying to develop a rectangular screen which they did--a 23EGP22 by the National Video Corporation which we all know what it turned out to be. Their resources were focused there and certainly not on a flat screen. The guy I worked with was a Motorola field rep then and flat panels/screens were never discussed or even heard of except as a small blurb in Popular Electronics but only as an artists' concept.

My mistake here, Motorola began the rectangular tube movement in around 1963-4 through the National Video Corporation who was about bankrupt and took on the task of developing a rectangular CRT. They were plagued with cheap labor and some labor issues and their cleanliness was below par and their best 23EGP22 was "soft" and not very crisp. A "flat" panel was not even in their picture in this time frame nor did their finances allow engineering such an item for what their goal was.

[David Roper]

Weren't rectangular sets with 23E[ww]GP22s being sold by Motorola in 1964? The only rectangular color innovation (if you can call it that) of 1966 that I can think of is the Portacolor.

[old_tv_nut]

The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.

I wrote the comment for my website. The photo and text were copied as found from Motorola's 1966 annual report. The top portion very much looks like a display screen in that photo. When JR Tech mentioned it was probably a perforated speaker grille, the light bulb went off and I agree, it probably is not a TV because of the pointed shape of that grille. If you re-read the text, it says "all in one unit" and "patients can operate a combination radio-TV". Since a nurse call device with radio have been around for decades, even back to 1957 when I was last in a hospital, I thought Motorola had come up with a new innovation. Also, Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by etype2

Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

FWIW, my take on these demonstrations...

1. I believe the 1966 Motorola prototype existed...a talented Engineer with the skill of a watchmaker could have built something like that. About the same time frame, an engineer that I knew built a tiny battery powered oscilloscope that worked, using a 3/4 inch diameter electrostatic CRT.

2. I believe the 1966 Sinclair demo, again a conventional electrostatic deflection monochrome crt and fairly conventional circuitry. A real product followed shortly.

3. Of course the 1970 monochrome Panasonic was a real product and even contained an IC to reduce the amount of discrete circuitry, as well as a conventional design magnetic deflection CRT.

4. At that time, all of the above would have been fairly simple exercises compared to making a flat CRT for a tiny TV set, and color would add extreme complexity to the design. I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

5. Perhaps in the mid 80s, Sanyo came close to introducing a beam index "lollipop" CRT color set, but I think by that time sets with color LCDs close to becoming a reality...it was simply too little / too late for that product.

Just my 2 cents,
jr

[etype2]

[QUOTE I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

The 1966 Intertel set was indeed a working prototype. In the Feb. 1966 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there was a 5 page write up about it. The opening paragraph by the reporter: "FLAT TV PICTURE TUBES ARE REALLY HERE. There are both color and black-and-white versions. I know, I've seen them in action. I've held them in my hands."

This photo is of an actual image on the screen: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

The tube is a flat tube very similar in looks to the Sanyo "lollypop" CRT. In the article you can see design sketches and working images on the tube.

To further the information, the 1961 RCA flat screen shown in the EBAY press photo auction was shown on the cover of the May, 1963 Mechanix Illustrated magazine. Possibly RCA was still tinkering with the design behind the scenes.

To further fuel the thought, an RCA engineer, George Hilmeir and his team invented and patented the first working LCD displays. They started work in secret from 1962 and announced to the world in a press conference in 1968, the development of the first LCD panels. Unfortunately, RCA never capitalized on their LCD patents, perhaps not to compete with their successful Color CRT division. Possibly RCA could have been thinking with this 1961-1963 mock up to use the new LCD panels they invented.

Here is a Photo of George Hilmeir standing outside of the Princeton RCA laboratories displaying an LCD imaging device. This photo was taken ironically, 1966 according to the David Sarnoff library: http://www.visions4.net/journal/new/...525-wordpress/

[David Roper]

Originally Posted by etype2

This photo is of an actual image on the screen:

Huh? You can't be serious.