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  #16  
Old 01-06-2016, 01:52 PM
Outland Outland is offline
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What is the cheat?

The washout is the camera's fault, his hair is quite detailed in real life. The problem with the red does come across in the photos though. I turned down the color again so it doesn't obscure details, but now the scene looks a little dull again.

I don't understand why the factory preset is so dark.

Until a few years ago, my friend's family had a huge 1988 Mitsubishi Diamond Vision II 3503. Towards the end, it was so dark you could barely see the outline of colors on a screen that almost looked off. At one point, I looked in the settings to find that brightness was already turned all the way up.

Why does this happen? Is deterioration accelerated by certain picture settings? I've heard contrast is the biggest decider. Yet on my set, it appears picture has plenty of headroom, it's brightness that's in shortest supply.
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2016, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outland View Post

If I put color at 100% the picture becomes far too saturated and bright reds start to lose detail and bleed, probably due to the tube's age.
That's similar to turning up a radio's volume control all the way up, you get distortion.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2016, 04:35 PM
Damnation Damnation is offline
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What DVD player are you using? The player might suffer from chroma upsampling error, an MPEG decoder error that plagued many early DVD players and is still evident in cheap players. It's most evident in red, causing horizontal streaking/blur in the picture's resulting color. Some affected players really exhibit it worse than others.
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File Type: jpg dvd-benchmark-cue-ghost-world.jpg (54.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg chroma1.jpg (25.1 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Damnation; 01-06-2016 at 04:40 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2016, 07:14 PM
Outland Outland is offline
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An old Sony DVP-S7000, which appears to be exempt from the bug.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2016, 04:46 PM
Outland Outland is offline
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I got a great picture after a lot of tinkering. Here are the settings:

Color: 31/63
Tint: Center
Brightness: 51/63
Picture: 40/63
Sharpness: Center

Bright reds still smear a little, but I can't be sure that's not from the RF signal.

Factory is:

Color: 31/63
Tint: Center
Brightness: 31/63
Picture: 63/63
Sharpness: Center

Are these settings good?
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2016, 05:49 PM
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Electronic M Electronic M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outland View Post
Are these settings good?
Only if they look good to you.

TV settings can be somewhat subjective. (Some color blind and some elderly folks prefer settings that 95% of the rest of the population would consider to be crap....And some sets like tube era GE sets don't like to let you set them any better, than slightly "off")
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2016, 07:21 PM
Outland Outland is offline
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Good enough for me. Thanks for the tips all.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2016, 08:02 PM
Outland Outland is offline
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I've gotten most of the settings almost perfect for a dark room. Picture is set at 50%, which is reasonable and not excessive from what I understand.

I'm still having trouble with brightness/black level. I've run into the situation that from a true black signal (no picture content), setting brightness to produce perfect black (no light emitted) swallows dark blacks when there is picture content. Likewise, adjusting black to produce no light when there is content on the screen (such as the picture control menu box) ends up making true black (nothing on screen) a dark gray. I've settled on an in-between setting by going one tick below no light output on the picture content setting. True black is still gray, but only noticeable in a dark room and even then it's very slight.

These are very small changes, but it's definitely changing. Why is black level changing?

Also, the top right corner of the picture is slightly dimmer than the other corners. Not sure why that is.

Last edited by Outland; 06-02-2016 at 08:05 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2016, 08:26 PM
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Most average CRT sets of that era weren't capable of a perfect (or even halfway decent) picture even when new.
If you want perfect, or at least something with good black levels and accurate color reproduction, then you need to find one of the higher end sets like a Sony XBR or an RCA Dimensia, Panasonic Tau, or even an older Sony Professional Monitor, they can be had for cheap now.
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2016, 08:29 PM
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1) DC restoration may not be perfect in this chassis - if not, you just have to live with it.
2) The black setup level in the source may be slightly off - do you get the same effect for all sources?
3) Are you sure it's changing? Adjusting to make black details visible on a bright picture in a completely dark room can cause you to raise it slightly to compete with optical flare in your eyes. You should set it to be correct with average pictures and not worry about the no-content case, unless you are seeing it come up to an objectionable level when content contains a fade to black.
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  #26  
Old 06-03-2016, 07:46 AM
RCAZenith RCAZenith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
Most average CRT sets of that era weren't capable of a perfect (or even halfway decent) picture even when new.
If you want perfect, or at least something with good black levels and accurate color reproduction, then you need to find one of the higher end sets like a Sony XBR or an RCA Dimensia, Panasonic Tau, or even an older Sony Professional Monitor, they can be had for cheap now.


You know, I have heard people say the exact opposite. When properly set up and with a good CRT, the old sets can produce a picture on par with the later sets due to higher quality components. However, on a tired CRT none of that matters. A lot of it comes down to knowledge how to adjust your set. I remember black plastic crap sets never needed adjusting - save for portable B&W sets. The average person who owns a flat screen or BPC CRT set won't be able to tune the settings right on a knob tuned set (manual controls, etc).


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  #27  
Old 06-03-2016, 11:31 AM
Outland Outland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
1) DC restoration may not be perfect in this chassis - if not, you just have to live with it.
2) The black setup level in the source may be slightly off - do you get the same effect for all sources?
3) Are you sure it's changing? Adjusting to make black details visible on a bright picture in a completely dark room can cause you to raise it slightly to compete with optical flare in your eyes. You should set it to be correct with average pictures and not worry about the no-content case, unless you are seeing it come up to an objectionable level when content contains a fade to black.
1) That's ok if it is. The key is to get a good enough calibration that shows the picture as intended.
2) I have two calibrations, one for 7.5 IRE and one for 0 IRE, and the sources give solid black floors in those ranges.
3) When there's a fade to black, it is slightly gray in a dark room. If I calibrate purely by picture content (slightly brighter) then it's slightly more gray. The opposite is true if I calibrate by a completely black picture.

I suppose I should just calibrate by the picture and leave it be.

For whoever suggested getting a higher-end set, I've been on the hunt for an early '90s KV-20V50, KV-20EXR20, or KV-20V60 (20" XBRs essentially) for 4 years now. Not once has it popped up on CL, thrift, or anywhere else. Almost everything is late '90s to SPC era or bigger than 20". The only reason I have this Panasonic is that after it was replaced by an HDTV by my family, it was stored in the basement ever since and I just happened to come across it. I always liked it and couldn't go without it.

It really is a nice TV otherwise. I had a KV-20V80 from '99 and, for whatever reason, this Panasonic pulled a better and sharper picture from RF than the 20V80 did from composite of the same source. There was no dot crawl on the V80 admittedly, but the picture was awful and blurry. I attributed it to an early digital comb filter in the V80 that removed crawl way too aggressively.

Last edited by Outland; 06-03-2016 at 11:48 AM.
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2016, 12:34 PM
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Get (or torrent ) an avia guide to home theater disc. It will have two thin moving slightly darker or lighter black bars in the black bar of the gray-scale setup, and instructions that will help you adjust the level correctly.
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