Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Early B&W and Projection TV

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:33 PM
RDusel RDusel is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 121
what creates a negative voltage on a control grid?

Gentlemen,
I'm stumped. I'm restoring a 1950 Zenith Porthole tabletop and almost done.
The set has a 12lp4 that tests like new, a new NOS flyback, new caps (paper and electros are changed).
The problem I am having is that the set only plays properly for a couple of minutes then it loses horizontal drive and HV.
Deeper inspection shows the following: (circuit diagram attached)
cathode current on the 6GB6 is a little higher than it should be, ~130-150ma.
When operating the set plays fine and the HV is 10-12KV, no heating of the flyback (but it doesn't run very long).
Secondary (P8) grid should be 255, comes in at 262.
Cathode (P3) is 15v, should be 14v.
The horizontal discharge produces a steady sawtooth waveform at 68V (checked at plate).
Now here is the issue. The control grid (P5) at the 6BG6 starts at -7 volts with a normal waveform (and normal voltage). Within 2 minutes it climbs (drops?) to -17 volts at which point the 6BG6 completely cuts off, stopping sweep and HV.
All components on the 6BG6 control grid circuit are new and tested (there are not a lot of them). Voltage on the horizontal discharge side of C79 does not change.
So I am assuming that electrons impinging on the control grid drive it negative when the current in the 6BG6 flows and this negative voltage fluctuates up and down based on the waveform passing through c79 from the Horizontal discharge plate creating sweep. And R77/R78 are connected to ground to bleed off some of the negative charge so the tube does not cut off like it is doing now.
Can anyone suggest why the control grid is going too far negative? Can it be linked in any way to the excess cathode current?
Grid emission on the 6BG6 tube (I have tried a couple of them)?
On the control grid I see one side tied to +85V through a cap and the other side tied to ground via resistors. So where does the negative voltage come from?
Any help very much appreciated as I am really close to having this one done and I'l love to watch it and move on to the next set.
Thanks!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg zenith_ho.JPG (64.4 KB, 34 views)

Last edited by RDusel; 07-27-2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason: added pin numbers
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:20 PM
RDusel RDusel is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 121
In case you are curious the full schematic I am using is found at
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2...350Z_Schem.jpg
The set is a G2350Z.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:32 PM
init4fun's Avatar
init4fun init4fun is online now
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,169
Just curious , have you replaced R77 and R78 with new resistors ?

It sounds as if one of them is drifting in value as the set operates , and just because they test good at room temperature is no assurance they are not drifting with the application of power .

If you have replaced them , and recapped the rest of the circuit , hopefully one of the site's resident TV experts will step in here for ya with a suggestion or few ....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:37 PM
RDusel RDusel is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Yes, R77, R78 and C79 are all new. I've tested them a few times and they are dead on value.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-27-2018, 03:14 PM
old_tv_nut's Avatar
old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
See yourself on Color TV!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rancho Sahuarita
Posts: 7,184
Questions:
Is the screen grid voltage about the same (255-262) when working OK and when bad?
How about the components attached to the cathode? Have they been checked/replaced?
Is the change gradual over two minutes, or sudden? Could the drive control be intermittent?
__________________
www.bretl.com
Old TV literature, New York World's Fair, and other miscellany
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 07-27-2018, 04:03 PM
RDusel RDusel is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 121
The components on the cathode have been replaced.
The change is very gradual, as I watch the scope (or vom) the negative voltage slowly creeps upwards and the screen dims very gradually until the tube goes into cutoff.
Good point about the screen grid voltage, I haven't checked it as closely as the control grid voltage.
I stumbled on the control grid voltage as I was doing working vs non-working comparisons. The screen grid tap on the socket adapter is way in the back and hard to get to so I never scoped it for the whole duration.
I'll have to check that one.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.