Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Television Broadcast Theory

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:32 PM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,815
What IS after ATSC

I mean for those of us dependent on OTA, how long until I hafta scrapall my converter boxes?
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:14 PM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 9,692
What is after OTA? DOOOOOooom!

IIRC it is going to be a market driven transition, so those boxes may have use for some time yet...Once they are done just get a ATSC 3.0 box and a HDMI to composite adapter to replace them.
__________________
Tom C.

What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4

Reading between the scan lines since the mid 2000's.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-28-2017, 01:27 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 994
Cellphone TV only since they are hogging up all the TV channels..I'll stick with internet TV via Youtube and other free video sites.I could care less about the mainstream nets since they all air rubbish now.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-28-2017, 03:37 PM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,815
I'm really not trying to be pretentious, but with over 60 channels, preamps and big antennas out the wazoo, but only watching a tiny fraction of subchannels like METV, etc mostly for old movies, cartoons and sitcoms of the 1960's.

Sure, almost everything else and all commercials are rubbish to me. I mean, just listen to Frank Zappa'a "I am the slime from the video" from 1976, its been going down hill since I first picked up a HV probe.

Dependence on OTA is due to my serious aversion to paying for any content via cable, DBS or anything else.
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:06 PM
Ed in Tx's Avatar
Ed in Tx Ed in Tx is offline
Zenith Walton My 1st TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,173
You can relax.

"...every TV station that converts to ATSC 3.0 will be required to continue to provide ATSC 1.0 service."

Read the whole article HERE

Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:30 PM
Jeffhs's Avatar
Jeffhs Jeffhs is offline
<----Zenith C845
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairport Harbor, Ohio (near Lake Erie)
Posts: 3,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
You can relax.

"...every TV station that converts to ATSC 3.0 will be required to continue to provide ATSC 1.0 service."

Read the whole article HERE

That is the best news I've heard (read) all day. I don't want to have to convert my TV to yet another broadcast standard if it isn't absolutely necessary.

I am not against progress, but this business of the TV industry "reinventing the wheel" every so often (DTV, then 4K, then eventually 8K..., and now ATSC 3.0) makes me wonder. I like DTV because of its much sharper picture and more channels (by way of subchannels of existing stations), but some of these other innovations....sheeesh! Ever-larger screens, curved screens, and, again, ATSC 3.0, to name but three. At least the FCC is requiring (not simply asking or allowing) TV stations to operate using the ATSC 1.0 standard along side of the newer one; this should calm viewers' fears that their new flat-screen HDTV will be rendered obsolete when the new standard takes effect. It won't happen. That is, there will be a new broadcast standard, but the nation's TV stations and networks, which have already spent millions (!) on upgrading their transmitters, studios and antennas for DTV, will not necessarily have to switch to ATSC 3.0 unless they desire to do so. Even if and/or when they do make the switch, however, viewers need not worry about the change rendering their expensive HDTVs obsolete in the blink of an eye, as DTV itself did to NTSC CRT TVs.
__________________
Jeff, WB8NHV

Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002

Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-29-2017, 12:03 AM
old_tv_nut's Avatar
old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
See yourself on Color TV!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rancho Sahuarita
Posts: 4,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
... in the blink of an eye, as DTV itself did to NTSC CRT TVs.
Actually, there was an 8-year long transition before the analog cutoff. Eventually, there will be a similar transition to ATSC 3.0 only (except that it may be different dates for different stations), but I expect people will not pay attention until the last few months, just as they didn't pay attention to the analog shutdown date until it was almost too late. As before, this will make no practical difference for pay service subscribers.
__________________
www.bretl.com
Old TV literature, New York World's Fair, and other miscellany
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-29-2017, 06:04 AM
dr.ido's Avatar
dr.ido dr.ido is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SE Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
That is the best news I've heard (read) all day. I don't want to have to convert my TV to yet another broadcast standard if it isn't absolutely necessary.
If the transition is handled like the current transition here (Australia) from MPEG2 to H264 you will probably be forced to upgrade the converter boxes sooner rather than later. I've scrapped all of my MPEG2 only boxes as they are basically useless now.

Yes, every channel still broadcasts it's main channel in SD MPEG2 that even the oldest 1st generation converter boxes and digital TVs can still receive - however the bit rate keeps dropping and it is reaching the point that it is unwatchable. The last of the HD MPEG2 channels converted to H264 recently. I think some stations are dynamically adjusting the bitrate depending on what considered higher priority as sometimes some channels look fine, but at others they look like youtube at 360p.

I watch more youtube than I do OTA TV, so it doesn't really effect my own viewing that much. It just makes it harder to sell used TVs.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:48 PM
Jeffhs's Avatar
Jeffhs Jeffhs is offline
<----Zenith C845
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairport Harbor, Ohio (near Lake Erie)
Posts: 3,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.ido View Post
If the transition is handled like the current transition here (Australia) from MPEG2 to H264 you will probably be forced to upgrade the converter boxes sooner rather than later. I've scrapped all of my MPEG2 only boxes as they are basically useless now.

Yes, every channel still broadcasts it's main channel in SD MPEG2 that even the oldest 1st generation converter boxes and digital TVs can still receive - however the bit rate keeps dropping and it is reaching the point that it is unwatchable. The last of the HD MPEG2 channels converted to H264 recently. I think some stations are dynamically adjusting the bitrate depending on what considered higher priority as sometimes some channels look fine, but at others they look like youtube at 360p.

I watch more youtube than I do OTA TV, so it doesn't really effect my own viewing that much. It just makes it harder to sell used TVs.
I don't watch OTA TV anymore, preferring to watch the local TV stations via streaming video, with a Roku player connected to my flat screen. I don't see these players being made obsolete by new standards, ATSC 3.0 or any other, when those standards change; the players will just be upgraded to newer software. Roku players already update their firmware daily, so that won't be a problem if and/or when ATSC 3.0 replaces the current standard. Even at that, US television stations will be required to carry both formats indefinitely, so no one will be left without TV when the new standard takes effect--unlike the DTV switch, which had plenty of people all but scared to death that they would lose their TV reception on June 12, 2009.

Blame the local TV stations for this (the aggressive advertising for the DTV switch). I remember vividly (I won't forget it anytime soon) when the CBS TV affiliate in Cleveland began advertising for what it called "The Big Switch", that is, the switch from analog to digital television. "Your TV will go black on June 12 (2009) if you don't upgrade to HDTV!" the announcement all but screamed at viewers across northeastern Ohio; the announcement was repeated over and over again for weeks afterward, at every opportunity the TV station had: during commercial breaks, station breaks, name it. I never saw such an aggressive advertising campaign on TV in my life.

As for programming, I have a subscription to Netflix, so I can watch any program in its library I don't already have on DVD or VHS. My Roku player has an icon on its home screen that takes the viewer directly to Netflix (I canceled my 3-DVD delivery plan some time ago in favor of streaming directly from Netflix), so accessing the channel is no problem. I could probably, even certainly, put an icon on that screen for YouTube as well. I am sufficiently put out (to put it mildly) by the grade-ZZZ fare on network TV that I have little use for OTA television, in this age of streaming video.

My hat is off to the developers of the Roku streaming-video player, as it is an idea whose time has come; in fact, IMHO, it is long, long overdue. This little box has changed forever how I watch TV. I still have a cable connection, but only so that the Spectrum TV app on my Roku will receive local TV, which I do watch occasionally--mostly for news and for the retro subchannels of channels 8 and 19 (Antenna TV and MeTV, respectively), as well as certain programs on subchannels of the PBS affiliate in Cleveland.
__________________
Jeff, WB8NHV

Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002

Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten.

Last edited by Jeffhs; 04-30-2017 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-13-2017, 08:06 PM
Adlershof Adlershof is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.ido View Post
If the transition is handled like the current transition here (Australia) from MPEG2 to H264 you will probably be forced to upgrade the converter boxes sooner rather than later. I've scrapped all of my MPEG2 only boxes as they are basically useless now.

Yes, every channel still broadcasts it's main channel in SD MPEG2 that even the oldest 1st generation converter boxes and digital TVs can still receive
Not even this in Germany. Just one big switch per transmitter location: DVB-T with MPEG-2 off, DVB-T2 with H.265 (not 264 here) on. Existing boxes or built-in decoders get no signal anymore.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:19 PM
Sandy G's Avatar
Sandy G Sandy G is offline
Spiteful Old Cuss
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rogersville, Tennessee
Posts: 9,077
Seems to me the folks who insist that all this stuff be changed NEVER heard the old adage " If it ain't broke, DON'T go "Fixing it"...
__________________
Benevolent Despot
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-29-2017, 06:37 AM
Jon A.'s Avatar
Jon A. Jon A. is offline
Don't mess with Esther.
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy G View Post
Seems to me the folks who insist that all this stuff be changed NEVER heard the old adage " If it ain't broke, DON'T go "Fixing it"...
There's always room for improvement and plenty of profit to be had in snake oil.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:59 PM
user181 user181 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy G View Post
Seems to me the folks who insist that all this stuff be changed NEVER heard the old adage " If it ain't broke, DON'T go "Fixing it"...

I completely agree with you! Further to your point, backward compatibility was considered a high priority (or even critical) once upon a time. Now, it almost seems as though system designers avoid it like the plague. OK, I'm exaggerating, but it sure isn't held with much reverence these days, generally speaking.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:33 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,197
I've noticed the number of interesting digital sub channels increasing lately, so I don't think over the air TV is going anywhere. But what worries me is that if they change format again and we all have to get new converter boxes, what if those won't output anything useful: no composite video or ch 3/4 RF output of good old NTSC. Maybe the new boxes will output in the current version of ATSC on ch3/4 and we'll have to hook our new converter boxes to our current converter boxes Or I suppose I could just get every show I like on VHS or DVD and be done with it.
__________________
The quality goes in, before the cat goes on!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-29-2017, 10:31 PM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Plattsmouth, NE 68048
Posts: 433
Why, WHY upgrade to better pictures when the programming hasn't improved in DECADES? Broadcast TV is mediocre and cable TV is HUNDREDS of SUCKEY programs! I don't need higher definition or better sound. I'll stick with DVD, Amazon or the subchannels.
__________________
Rick (Sparks) Ethridge
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.