Bought my first car this week!

[Username1]

EM- sorry you feel that way..... It is fun being able to fix old cars yourself, That is why
we also have stuff around 1990 in our stable. Rust is the only thing that really will beat
you, as it did me for my old '72 & 3 mustangs. My roof on the '72 looked better than
yours right now, but eventually got soft, see they don't paint under vinyl, and they don't
paint where you can't see.... So Sorry for the bad news you will eventually loose.....

My '88 serves it's purpose, less than 2,000 miles/year, getting coal, trips to HD, etc.
And since I owned it '92 I think, no break-downs, still original starter too.

My break with tv repair was more or less I break from a job, actually a change in job.
From what I thought was going to be a tv repair career to landscaping which turned
my health around. At 53 I have not seen a doctors office in 20 years. But I always
liked the "tv set" and now with a house, stability, I picked up a few sets to play with.

When the frame rotted out on my Rustang I got a '89 Prelude because a friend at
college had one and it was really really fun to drive, ran great, very comfortable.
I didn't care for the Styrofoam bumpers, but cars now are all about protecting YOU
in a wreck, at 53 and seeing the decline in driving skills, it's something you may
think one day might be worth it.... When I was a kid, I got all the parts for my cars
at the junkyard, in there I always looked and studied cars that were in wrecks,
2 door cars that got t-boned for the most part had blood inside, you could see
especially in firebirds, the car squished the drivers seat as if there was no protection
at all..... It all made me think a lot.

Still good luck with whatever you do with the car, just hate to see you go through
lots of work on that car and loose out on it with rust, and time, and money....

Healthcare is not so much a let the market find a price, and screw those who can't
afford it. Eventually everyone will need it. The $10. aspirin story, is not a
pharmacudical industry price, nor patent thing, it is actually a story over 40 years
old, originally I think from 60 minutes. And it's the price people in the hospital
were charged for a single aspirin. (I would imagine today, it's closer to $70.
and hidden so 60 minutes can't do another update with the new prices.... )So with all the
layers of stuff that people pay for in a hospital stay, it drives costs to something so
outrageous that it shows up in itemized things like that little 20 cent item being
delivered to the patient at the cost of $9.80.

At your age, you should really broaden your views on the world, cable tv news has a
lot of crackpot views, and money behind all that you hear. In the USA there are groups
that go around with free medical care days in tents like they do on other third world
countries, and the lines are miles long. A few of these were on shows like Frontline,
ha, ha, not a Fox show.... This happens because there are soooo many people here
who can't afford even the simplest of medical care items, You should find this episode
and watch it. You can choose not to buy a $100,0000 tv set, you may not be able to
choose not buying a $100,000 medical procedure, it'll just happen, and you'll file
bankruptcy a few years later..... Our healthcare system is rated last among developed
countries, and I think they rate Cuba's better, or near same, and they are a communist
country.

You do understand Communism is only an economic system. In communism, the
Government owns the means of production. We have things here that are done
under that system, think roads, prisons, public safety, sky safety, I bet there are
many more. And they are done that way because it's the best way to do it. Imagine
if the company in Floridah decided they were gunna charge $1/mile for their roads
if all roads were privatized, and for profit. Others were within market, say .08/mile.
How many jobs do you think would be in Fl..., if more states adopted it how quickly
do you think trains would make a come back. Frontline, Dam them, did a few shows
on for profit prisons, you should watch that one too.... Profit driven convictions ended up
putting those who set up and run that thing in prison themselves.

Communism is hated be those who pull the strings, as you get older, and hopefully
learn more than soundbytes about how and why things are the way they are, your
views will be softer, and more enlightened. More "Commycrat" like..... When I was
in my 20's I thought more protectionism like, USA Right all the time, Business should
run it like they want, etc. In time I saw them ruin a lot, politicians all suck, the two
of them got us here today. A world where you are less likely to have a life as good as
your parents....... It started in high gear when Regan began breaking labor in mass....

Sorry for prolonging this off topic discussion.....
But then we are in the off topic lane, right.....
I guess this thread will be closed soon....

Good day.

.

[Eric H]

It'll be closed soon enough if it doesn't get back on topic and out of the Politics immediately.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by Eric H

It'll be closed soon enough if it doesn't get back on topic and out of the Politics immediately.

Actually its economics....

but anyways, if you see that much rust by the landau, trust me, having done this for decades, its far far worse underneath.

[maxhifi]

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by maxhifi

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

Thanks for the suggestion I'll look into that.
I've seen worse before shots of some very nice cars as well.
Boy did I write my last post slowly for you to post this while I was writing it.

[Username1]

Originally Posted by maxhifi

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

I may try that stuff on my pickup bed, it has a good coat of surface rust on the
flat areas where cargo goes..... Something that is "hammer" resistant and they
say will NOT rust again is worth a try, and it's a reasonable price.... Thanks
for posting this, I have not seen it before....


PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...
The part inside the car....

EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to
know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs....

.

[Electronic M]

Last night we had terrible thunder storms...After being awoken from a dead sleep at 3 AM by what sounded/felt like a small nuke. I observed the trees blowing more than I can remember in a LONG time. A few subsequent boomers that interrupted my sleep hours later revealed that a limb was in our yard from a neighbors tree. Once I awoke, and the storm was no longer making the windows difficult to see thru I found it was a bit worse than I thought it was...
More pics here:http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/El...?sort=3&page=1

The net sum of the damage to my car that I can see: a $90 weatherproof car cover, and a big scratch on the back of the trunk lid that the pictures don't fully capture...It ain't deep so I may be able to polish it out. Another 6" and that big branch would have connected with the rear end, or 25-45 degrees rotation and it would have landed on the roof. Thank god the bulk of it missed! Dads car was around 6-12' behind mine and took some damage too (that is what ya get fer parkin me in all the time), but he left for work well before I had a chance to see how bad it was hit (it don't sound too bad though).

The vinyl is definitely going bad some of the places where it has come loose from the trim it is clear that is has shrunk/gotten brittle, and there are cracks forming on top that were not there last year. I think I'm going to start researching ways to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Username1

PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...The part inside the car....

Thanks, I have not tried to price it so that helps put it in perspective. I like the look of the vinyl half roof, but a part of me worries that even if all the rust is removed and it gets painted that putting new vinyl on is just going to help the rust eventually return...Though maybe I'm just worried over nothing. When you mention rust on the inside of the roof did you get that from rust through? I'm fairly sure there are not any holes in mine, and I'm sure there ain't no leaks (save for the rear corner of the door windows which only leak when hit with high pressure nozzles).

Originally Posted by Username1

EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs....
.

Fair enough. I'm fairly sure the forum does not and legally can't tell us what we are allowed to know...What we can say here is a different matter though.
Thanks.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Username1

I may try that stuff on my pickup bed, it has a good coat of surface rust on the
flat areas where cargo goes..... Something that is "hammer" resistant and they
say will NOT rust again is worth a try, and it's a reasonable price.... Thanks
for posting this, I have not seen it before....


PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...
The part inside the car....

EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to
know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs....

.

I had my 2000 Dakota bed coated with a spray on bed liner, instead of a plastic bed liner. I also had it rust-deferred, as there's no such thing as rust proofing.
You can buy a bed liner type product at the auto supply stores. I've seen it done, but if not done properly, it doesn't look to good. That's why I had done professionally, plus it never would've got done.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by maxhifi

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems.

bwahahahaha!

Try PA rust....

[Electronic M]

The roof is all still solid. you are not telling me anything I don't know about cars with vinyl roofs. There are some leaks in the vinyl, it accumulates on the bottom passenger side and has done what is there. The under carriage is in very good shape (I've had it on a hoist, and been under it enough to know). I've been keeping it covered during most precipitation to halt the advance of the rust. Part of me has been considering deleting the vinyl, removing the rust, painting/filling pits in the bare metal and maybe putting the trim back and doing the paint on the former vinyl area in a way that gives the visual impression of vinyl. If my circumstances were better I'd probably have started on that already... I'm now starting to think about shifting my attention back to Improving it. The driver door needs the power locks revisited, and the window angle adjusted, the 8-track mech has slowed and started a periodic grinding noise, I've got the money to address the exhaust (the muffler is going and makes a moan I've joked is the ship's fog horn), and I've always been curious about body work...This could be a good excuse to learn.

I can't stand letting squirrel boy have the last public shot at political debate here and I believe his opinion and characterization of my views is thoroughly misguided, but I'm going to be the bigger man and instead of posting the paragraphs of retort I've just written to his last comment, I'll instead say publicly say that 'I respectfully disagree with you squirrel boy' and take the political debate portion of this conversation private.

Now hopefully back to pure car talk.

[Username1]

Looks like all in all you guys were lucky on that one..... Sorry anyhow....
Under the vinyl on one car was not painted at all.... Both cars seemed to have
an imperfect roof to body union. (weld) I was told before the internet, that
all imperfect cars got vinyl. On my cars, the inside of all the sheet metal had
no coating, to some type of gray crap, it all rusted. The vinyl roof, all of it got
soft, the cracks are because the rust raises areas where it starts to bubble, the
areas that have really good glue hold the vinyl down well, results it tears.
The tearing is too small to see at first, but water and salt gets in and rust
begins to really grow. The roof eventually is so soft with rust all over it, it's too
weak to be repaired with something, and needs to be replaced in some way.
Yes it's possible to repair any automotive damage, it's cost and practicality that
effect your choice as to what you are going to do with it. When I worked on my
cars, there was a thing called "rust converter" I used it, but it eventually flaked off
with new rust. It's hard to get it repaired everywhere when you still have to drive
it..... I put lots and lots of money into 2 rusty cars that eventually bent in half one
day when I put a jack under it, the other one that stabilizer, lower control arm strut
piece under the radiator broke off..... They had rebuilt engines, transmission, paint,
tons of rust preventative stuff, etc, all given to a guy that bought them for parts.
Had tons of fun with them, but just couldn't stop the end coming. Enjoy the car, but
pick yer battles, and in the end know when to say enough....
First cars are hard to make those kind of decisions on....

PS the rust you see on the outside, might be there along those bolt holes on
the inside of the rear quarters, mine were metal with some white puddy
on the underside with the little nut. Also a little rusty, along with the inside
of the rear Q. which was unpainted....

.

[Electronic M]

Thanks for the explanation. On the Mark V from what I understand the Vinyl was technically an option, but basically every Mark V had one unless a Vinyl delete was specifically customer ordered. It is a padded vinyl roof so the cracking is not because of rust...I can't imagine 1/4" of spongy padding not absorbing the expansion of rust enough to cause the cracks I see...Granted that padding could have a rust magnifying effect.

[Username1]

I am unfamiliar with what might be in the padding. But it is possible the padding can
hold moisture..... The early 70's cars, like mine, did not have padded roofs.

Vinyl was an option back in the 70's too. There were "packages" like today's DX, LX,
and EX model designation, where the vinyl top was bundled if they had a lot of cars
with bad tops. You know how it goes, cover it up, get it sold, even to give away the top.
And vinyl tops were very popular, people liked them, I really liked the black top on
my bright red car, it looked great together... Seeing so many, made the ones without
it not look as good.... My car the mustang Grand'e had A/C PB PS 351 Auto, they made
all Grand'e with vinyl tops. It was like an upgrade, they probably had the public hooked
on them....

And who would want a Lincoln without a plush vinyl top anyway....?

PS- You know, it's also possible that by the time they built your car, they decided to
deliver a better product than they did in '72, and that the roof is painted on the
outside, and that you only have rust bad along that trim strip..... It's also possible
that that fender was replaced at one time and there is a weld along that line and it
is the source of the rust. The wife's '91 accord had developed a strange rust spot
middle lower part of drivers door, and when I repainted the car, discovered bondo
in that area. Seems like the first owner drove into something, made a small dent,
had it fixed, and in the 20 years we had the car it rusted probably from poor metal-prep.
Also, that repair was done so well that I could not tell anything was done to it all this
time until I sanded it and got it ready for repainting.

.

[Username1]

I agree rust almost always comes back..... I like "rust-deferred" -Very good...
I have done a few spots - weld in new metal, metal-prep it etching primer,
then regular primer on top, then paint, and rust has not returned - yet.....

.

[AUdubon5425]

The reason the welds look ugly under vinyl tops is because there was no reason to finish them if they were going to be covered. Standard practice back then.