Still no comparison

[Kiwick]

By the way,

The shutdown last year of two out of three national AM public radio broadcasts has created a serious nationwide protest... they probably thought that no one was still listening to AM radio... they were wrong...

I can only imagine the reaction to the shutdown of analog TV broadcasts in 2012... millions of low income people and retirees which are struggling to pay the bills and make it to the next month will be forced to go out and spill 100 bucks for ABSOLUTELY no perceived benefit... or either stop watching TV...

And, by the way, our DVB-T (Digital Video Broadcasting - Terrestrial) set top boxes all have smart card slots and a couple of channels are already requiring payment, so we're probably going to lose free TV someday...

Francesco

[Chad Hauris]

Personally I do think HDTV usually looks a lot better than NTSC...however the difference does not mean enough to me to make me want to spend the dough for the new set! I do think my old sets do fine for me.
Every year though, the price of the HDTV sets goes down and there is more HDTV programming available.

I really don't see what any to-do is about this when conversion units for digital to analog will be available with US government funding for those who cannot afford them plus all new TV receiveing devices including TV sets, VCRs, digital recorders etc. must have digital capability.

Also I know several people who, even though they have cable, have hooked up their antenna again so they can get over the air digital HDTV broadcasts. I don't see how digital will decrease over the air viewing.

[rcaman]

boy i can here the hackers now having fun with those cards that some stations are going to require you to pay a fee on to watch local tv. ha, ha, ha. i hope they get just what directv got in the beginning. and i made a lot off of directv not on fixing the cards mind you just selling the cards. i made thousands and not just a few thousand. that was the good old days wish i hadnt spent it all. steve

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Kiwick

I can only imagine the reaction to the shutdown of analog TV broadcasts in 2012... millions of low income people and retirees which are struggling to pay the bills and make it to the next month will be forced to go out and spill 100 bucks for ABSOLUTELY no perceived benefit... or either stop watching TV...

We are getting a better deal here in the USA. The government will send two US$40 coupons to buy tuner boxes starting next January or so, to any household that requests them. Digital tuner boxes are already available for US$80, and will probably be about $50-60 next year. Regarding "perceived benefit", with any halfway-decent antenna, these boxes will tune in perfect, ghost-free signals, and many stations already have two or more channels in the space of one analog channel. I have the choice of two 24-hour local weather channels, a 24-hour news channel, 24-hour children's commercial-free channel, and others, all crystal-clear (but those ones are not hi-def). At worst case, some people might need to add a US$10 RF modulator to the box. With that, for $25 I can watch all those added channels as well as all of the existing ones except they are clearer, on any TV made since 1946 in the USA... Certainly, anyone in the USA who thinks this is a bad "value" simply has no idea what really deserves complaining about.

[compucat]

The only real gripes I have with digital are bad reception (worse here than analog on the same channel) and the lack of backward compatibility with existing sets. It is not so bad for the large sets using a converter since they usually have something connected to them already such as a VCR, DVD player, etc. I'm really going to miss pulling one of my portable sets off the shelf, sitting it on the kitchen counter or out on the deck, plugging it in and watching. Now all my vintage portables will have to become table models with converters and modulators. I do like the fact that DVD recorders with digital tuners are out now. For my roundie I have one box connected to it which is a VCR-DVD Recorder-ATSC Tuner combo. I use a set of amplified rabbit ears on top of that and a modulator hidden behind the combo unit. It is weird, however, to see digital artifacts and pixelation on a 1960s TV.

If free TV ever goes away, I will reluctantly get cable for the house and use my Archos 604 WiFi media player as my portable set to watch recorded programs and converted DVDs.

As someone once said: Progress was alright once but it went on too long.

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

We are getting a better deal here in the USA. The government will send two US$40 coupons to buy tuner boxes starting next January or so, to any household that requests them. Digital tuner boxes are already available for US$80, and will probably be about $50-60 next year. Regarding "perceived benefit", with any halfway-decent antenna, these boxes will tune in perfect, ghost-free signals, and many stations already have two or more channels in the space of one analog channel. I have the choice of two 24-hour local weather channels, a 24-hour news channel, 24-hour children's commercial-free channel, and others, all crystal-clear (but those ones are not hi-def). At worst case, some people might need to add a US$10 RF modulator to the box. With that, for $25 I can watch all those added channels as well as all of the existing ones except they are clearer, on any TV made since 1946 in the USA... Certainly, anyone in the USA who thinks this is a bad "value" simply has no idea what really deserves complaining about.

When analog tv goes away what is the incentive for price reductions in digital tuners. The only ones available here (they are no longer available) were $149 not $80. Even if the price drops to $50 I would have to buy 7 of them. Now the government is graciously going to give me two coupons, but what about the other $270 for my sets? I havn't seen a ten dollar rf modulator either, not here. Even at Wal-Mart they are $19.88. So lets see I am now at $409.16 plus tax that's $449.05. Thats almost four hundred and fifty dollars to watch the same sets I can watch now for free with a large antenna. Some "value".
Add to this the fact that I live between Memphis and Nashville. Here we have one ABC station, and one PBS station in Lexington. Memphis is about 80 miles away, and Nashville 130 miles away. Even the Lexington transmitter is about 30 miles away. With a large antenna I could receive the Memphis stations and the local stations, and if I turn the antenna the other way I could receive the stronger Nashville stations. Since the new digital stations will be UHF, at best I will be able to get our 1 local channel, and if there are no birds or bad weather I will get the 1 PBS station maybe, and those will eventually not be free. Some "Value".
Now if I had cable what would happen? Well if JEA of Charter follow the lead of Comcast I may have to still have a box for each set. At a cost of lets say $5.00 per box per month that would be an additional $35 per month to the cable bill, that's an additional $420 per year. Some "value".
Either way the average consumer gets screwed. I think this is something worth complaining about. The digital conversion could have been mandated to coexist or be backwards compatible with the current system. But then nobody would have any incentive to subscribe to the new digital channels other than for HDTV. Bottom line is that digital broadcasting was not consumer driven. It was purely corporate driven for profit. I am not against any company making profits, but I am against forcing it on people. Why not open UHF up to digital HDTV, and leave the rest alone? That way I have the option of buying digital with it's potential HDTV or not. The government does have the right to regulate the air waves spectrum usage, they always have. As a citizen I have the right to use them, and the forced change is going to force some people to simply not watch tv. I am not so sure that is a bad idea (not watching tv that is).
How about this a massive consumer revolt. Leave the system alone, or make it compatible, or we all stop watching broadcast television. For what it's likely to cost me I could buy the DVDs for the programs I watch most.

Just a thought.

Bill R

[compucat]

I cringe when I hear commercials advertising digital "HD" radio. They have already screwed up TV by going digital. If they mess with radio and make all my radios sets obsolete I'll really be mad. I agree with the earlier post. Make it backward compatible or limit it to a special band of frequencies and leave the current system in place. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

[Kiwick]

I have no less than 8 TV sets in use by now... including one in the barn i'm watching while i'm cleaning the horses stalls...

I'd have to get 8 boxes... that's 800 bucks... no way...

I think i'm going to buy one and feed its RF signal to all TVs in my home, and another one for the barn... as soon as they keep the current 625 line PAL system...

As i've said, i'm not going to buy a new HDTV... i'd rather quit watching TV

Francesco

[fsjonsey]

Originally Posted by compucat

I cringe when I hear commercials advertising digital "HD" radio. They have already screwed up TV by going digital. If they mess with radio and make all my radios sets obsolete I'll really be mad. I agree with the earlier post. Make it backward compatible or limit it to a special band of frequencies and leave the current system in place. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

"HD" radio is one of the biggest false advertising campaigns i've seen in a while. They market it as "High Definition", yet the HD in HD radio Means Hybrid Digital, not High definition. The quality is worse than a standard FM broadcast, and FAR below the "CD Quality" they claim. The highest bitrate HD radio can transmit is 96 kbit/s or 128 kbit/s, equivalent to a very low quality MP3 file. Is it me or is the "CD quality" misnomer slapped on every lossy compressed digital audio format?

[Chad Hauris]

Originally Posted by compucat

I cringe when I hear commercials advertising digital "HD" radio. They have already screwed up TV by going digital. If they mess with radio and make all my radios sets obsolete I'll really be mad. I agree with the earlier post. Make it backward compatible or limit it to a special band of frequencies and leave the current system in place. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

HD (digital) radio in the U.S.A. is compatible with analog, as the digital and analog are broadcast simultaneously. The digital is broadcast on a subcarrier or sideband of the signal, both on AM and FM. The only degradation of the analog signal occurs on AM, where the analog channel is restricted to 5 Khz audio and more interference can be generated to weak adjacent frequency signals from the digital signal.

I have not heard either digital AM or FM to tell how it sounds...however it does not seem to be catching on as I think few receivers are available.

It does allow for different programming on the digital channels and public stations have been using the digital multi-channels to offer such things as continuous classical music and news streams.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Bill R

the forced change is going to force some people to simply not watch tv.

I have no idea how spending $10-25 as a one-time purchase will be impossible for anyone who has a home and a TV already. You got me there...

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

I have no idea how spending $10-25 as a one-time purchase will be impossible for anyone who has a home and a TV already. You got me there...

To some people with little income even $10 is a hardship. Just because you do not know them doesn't mean they do not exist. I have been there, and it's not fun. Like I said it has been forced on the consumers, it could have been done in a way that would let me chose if I want digital tv or not.

Bill R

[fujifrontier]

hippy crap I say

[ChrisW6ATV]

US$80 ATSC tuner:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882107049

US$9 RF modulator:

http://www.beachaudio.com/Video/Acce...r-p-17759.html

US$95 complete digital TV:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5691091

If a person is lucky enough to have a home big enough to have seven or eight separate places/rooms to watch TV, then I cannot imagine how $300 is going to be a big financial problem.

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

US$80 ATSC tuner:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882107049

US$9 RF modulator:

http://www.beachaudio.com/Video/Acce...r-p-17759.html


Believe it or not some people do not buy from the internet. Neither of these stores are in my area.

US$95 complete digital TV:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5691091

Yep, a 13 inch durabrand. So I should replace my 52 inch tv with a 13 incher?

If a person is lucky enough to have a home big enough to have seven or eight separate places/rooms to watch TV, then I cannot imagine how $300 is going to be a big financial problem.

I do have a home big enough, wheither it would be a financial problem or not it is not right. By the way luck had nothing to do with my owning a home big enough. It was paid for, with a lot of hard work, and right now paying $300 to $500 would be a big financial problem.

Bill R