Philco 41-280 help

[John L]

I have just purchased an antique Philco console radio, a 41-280. It is really a very nice design, and looks like a juke-box, perhaps better than any other console radio I know of.

Here is what I have got to work with.







Surprisingly, the console is in pretty good shape, with the exception of some missing veneer within the second picture, and one little piece further down the side of the cabinet. It is the black paint that is the first stumbling block, but it is a spray can job, and is peeling in many places. I think perhaps using an air blower attached to my air compressor may get a sizable portion off the surfaces.

I have been told that the radio works, and the amplifier looks to be all there and the tubes are Philco too. It looks nice, and easy to restore.

Also, the radio's face plate needs to be replaced, along with the cracked push buttons. I have already found a place, Radio Daze where I can replace them.

But first of all, I would like to get some input from those who have already preceeded me, to offer the best way to strip the black paint and strip the old finish.

As for the old finish, is it shellac? or is it something else?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks up front.

John

[Tom Bavis]

The finish is lacquer - past the late 20's nothing else was used for radio cabinets. Production lines can't wait for shellac (let alone varnish) to dry. Lacquer thinner may remove any residual paint as well. You may find it's toned (colored) lacquer - you can buy this in spray cans too. The best place to ask questions about this is the forum at antiqueradios.com.

When you get to the electronic restoration, the Philco service bulletin is on my web site: http://www.audiophool.cjb.net/Philco.html

The plastic parts (knobs, bezel and push buttons) may be available from Larry Bordonaro - http://antiqueradioknobs.com/partlistings.html

[John L]

Originally Posted by Tom Bavis

The finish is lacquer - past the late 20's nothing else was used for radio cabinets. Production lines can't wait for shellac (let alone varnish) to dry. Lacquer thinner may remove any residual paint as well. You may find it's toned (colored) lacquer - you can buy this in spray cans too. The best place to ask questions about this is the forum at antiqueradios.com.

When you get to the electronic restoration, the Philco service bulletin is on my web site: http://www.audiophool.cjb.net/Philco.html

The plastic parts (knobs, bezel and push buttons) may be available from Larry Bordonaro - http://antiqueradioknobs.com/partlistings.html

Thanks Tom.

Now, all I need is one more 41-280, or perhaps a 40-180, or 42-380. I also think that they make one more of this style in the 1946 inventory too.

I intend to use the pair as speaker enclosures for a nice pair of infinite baffle full-range drivers, such as the Silver Iris line. That way they will be working with my tube gear. Then at a later date, I can rebuild the amps and other inside electronics.

Incidentially, are all thes old amplifiers single-ended amps?

[Tom Bavis]

The 41-280 is push-pull, with the LOUSIEST phase inverter circuit ever used (but it saved one tube...). But that's typically Philco - they always did things their own way.

[John L]

Originally Posted by Tom Bavis

The 41-280 is push-pull, with the LOUSIEST phase inverter circuit ever used (but it saved one tube...). But that's typically Philco - they always did things their own way.

Is an improvement mod possible?

[Old1625]

Originally Posted by Tom Bavis

The 41-280 is push-pull, with the LOUSIEST phase inverter circuit ever used (but it saved one tube...). But that's typically Philco - they always did things their own way.

D'ya care to elaborate? I've seen lousy phase inverter cktry from just about every maker. What makes Philco special--and worthy of such distinction....? A schematic example of what you mean would prove worthwhile--and be deeply appreciated here after my now knowing such news. I'm having nightmares during broad daylight of using signal off the OPT secondary to drive the nether output....

[Old1625]

It would appear that someone had a few tee many martoonis, and decided to paint the blistering and finish-eroded veneer on this job. Gad I hate it when people do this...

If this radio were mine it would prove tempting to say "let's not lie about this radio's own history, and simply fill in and smooth out the missing veneer and leave it black.

Such procedure--while perhaps heretic in nature in some antique radio people's philosophy--would certainly be cheaper of time and money than the stripping-down of all that junky paint, and inlaying or entirely re-veneering all that cabinetry.

Whatever you decide to do....good luck in the project, and I hope all goes well.

[John L]

Originally Posted by Old1625

It would appear that someone had a few tee many martoonis, and decided to paint the blistering and finish-eroded veneer on this job. Gad I hate it when people do this...

If this radio were mine it would prove tempting to say "let's not lie about this radio's own history, and simply fill in and smooth out the missing veneer and leave it black.

Such procedure--while perhaps heretic in nature in some antique radio people's philosophy--would certainly be cheaper of time and money than the stripping-down of all that junky paint, and inlaying or entirely re-veneering all that cabinetry.

Whatever you decide to do....good luck in the project, and I hope all goes well.

today I tried using a spray-on remover from a can. It barely worked. So I went back and picked up a gallon of Crown Paint & Varnish remover at Lowes. I started to also pick up a gallon of mineral spirits, but thought I already had some. I didn't. so I took out a 3" brush, poured out a bunch of the remover into a metal container and painted it on all the bottom half of the radio. I did this twice, and a great deal of the gunk has come off.

Actually, it looks worse that before I started, but that is normal. Tomorrow, if it doesn't rain, I will remove all the inside guts, including the speaker and baffle board. I'll also get rid of the worn old grill cloth, and then give the bottom half another good coat.

Then I will take the Scotch brite brillo and dip it in mineral spirits, and rub out any gunk left. What is probably going to give me the most work is all the trim around the bottom and front. But I will keep it up until I finish. It's really not all that bad, just time consuming.

I will also remove the bad face plate, bad buttons, and order a new set from one of several places I have on file. One of the moderators over at the Philco Phorum[/u] sent me a pdf file containing all the preset radio stations that I have already printed out, and will use to add to the console once I replace all the hardware.

I noticed that there was also a chip out of the front right round corner, halfway down, and will have to have a small piece of walnut placed in there. Matching it may be a problem, so I will take a piece from around the already bad part on the right rear, because it all comes from the same tree. Then I will take another new piece of walnut and fill in the back portion, and not worry all that much about an exact match, since it will be harder to notice.

If I can get it all stripped by this weekend, I will clean it up nicely, and fine-sand it down. Then I will seal it with Super-Blond shellac, although I haven't decided on the finish yet. But one thing is certain: it will not be with all that old fashioned coloured dark finish. It completely ruins the wood grain. I simply don't know what they were thinking about back then.

[sampson159]

i had a very similiar problem with my zenith 10s-669. cabinet was pretty bad with chipping veneer and photo finish falling off. i stripped it to the bare wood with a chemical product from lowes. the veneer was patched usung a template made from construction paper to make a pattern of the missing wood. after the veener work was done,a light hand sand with fine grit paper and i used walnut stain. the bottom area i used dark walnut and there were other areas that are darker originally. use fine steel wool to smooth out the stain. tack cloth it and i used 12 coats of tung oileasy to apply and no spraying apparatus required) light sand with the steel wool and tack cloth between coats. a final coat of paste wax and the finish looks great! philco has a nice look to it and it will turn out fine. good luck and post pics in progress.

[John L]

Very Nice! Looks like a late 40s model, judging by the radio faceplate. Could be wrong.

Also, what did you use to seal the wood?

Oh here is something that really surprised me. Somehow, I had the impression that these radios were bigger/taller than they really are. My 41-280 is only a hair over 39 inches tall. Like I said, they will make excellent open, infinite baffle speaker enclosures.

[sampson159]

sorry,i did seal the wood. guess i skipped a step in my excitement.this is a 1941 model-am,sw,pb,etc. i have a philco in the garage that will get the treatment soon. it is a small console. i will post pics during rehab.

[Reece]

When they put black paint over the original, it's a real job to get the paint out of the grain of the wood with paint remover, as it sort of melts back in. One trick is after the finish is loosened with paint remover, scrub it off using handfuls of fine wood shavings, like hamster bedding (buy at pet store.) It seems to scrape out and absorb the loosened finish well and gets it away from the cabinet surface.

Reece

[John L]

I have given it three coats of remover, and am still not getting everything off. Here are some pictures of what part of the lower half I have been working on.





I have two main concerns right now. I am afraid that all the black paint and old finish will not come off the trim work, like at the bottom and near the top. Obviously the wood there is not all the same.

My other concern is that with some of the front vertical pieces, black has been absorbed into the wood itself. If you look at the far left vertical piece here, at the bottom, that black look is not finish left on the surface of the wood. I am at a loss as to how to get this out of the wood.

[John L]

Here is the radio, turned on it's face, down in the shop.



I removed the antenna, marked the wiring, and then removed the speaker with it's baffle support. Under it was what appears to be a piece of masonite, with some real cheap grill cloth in front.



But here's the 'money' shot. If you look closely, you can see that there are small screws wedged in at the top of each wooden rod. Boy, that sure made my day, on the stripping and finishing field.



Here's a closer shot.



The screws are a modified Robertson/philips tip that will accept either one.

And here are some shots of the brain.







Lot of 'stuff' in there. :wink:

Here is the cabinet before I pulled out the rods.



And without them. As you can clearly see, getting in there will be a whole lot easier.



I also did more scraping of the front and top of the radio, without any stripper. some of the paint has come off, and I am not certain what to do with that little plate just above the grill, and below the face plate. It is clearly some nice mahogany, and also has the subdued "Philco" label. If I try sanding or paint and varnish remover, it will get removed.

Are there places where one can print or purchase "Philco" decals to reattach to the radio?

[Fisherdude]

Originally Posted by John L

...Are there places where one can print or purchase "Philco" decals to reattach to the radio?

Absolutely! Try RadioDaze.com. There's a link to decals right on the top. They have a ton of Philco decals. Gold with the black borders, etc.

Btw, it's coming along nicely! Great luck finding those screws. Otherwise you would have worked your fingers to little stumps!