78 r.p.m. records

[Telecolor 3007]

Hello people. Does some ones owns and playes 78 r.p.m. records? I wonder how they are compared - in term in durability and sound to the vinyl records? Do some of them sound decent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2zQNGUKPc

[old_tv_nut]

I no longer have any 78s. The surface noise of shellac records was always much greater than vinyl. Modern noise reduction techniques can reduce it quite a bit when transfering to digital media, usually without modulating the music unacceptably, but for direct play, high-cut is about the most you can do.

I know of one radio host that would play a blank shellac track in the background of his announcing. This would accustom your ear to the noise so that it would be less noticeable on the old records.

Now that my old ears roll off starting at 3 kHz, the noise wouldn't bother me as much, but I still listen to old records from digital transfers.

[MadMan]

I have a few 78s. I don't really listen to them, per se, I just have them to demonstrate my Victrola. I'll tell you one thing, though, I was surprised at the sound quality and volume a mechanical record player can muster. Once I had the reproducer rebuilt and adjusted properly, without any electronic amplification, I can hear the music playing in the basement from upstairs. I have some shellac records that sound good, and I have one that's really worn out. The later records that I think are not shellac, sound much better. Granted, vinyl albums are going to sound better, just on principle alone.

But yeah, I was pretty surprised.

[Electronic M]

I've been into Big Band/Swing music most of my life so I have a collection of 78s. Probably around 200-300 but I haven't catalogued them yet the way I catalogued my LP collection earlier this year.

One thing I know about most 78s is don't play them on equipment with HiFi era amplification...If the equipment doesn't roll off the high frequency enough the record noise will be too distracting.

I have a few VDiscs that appeared to never have been played on heavy tracking phonos that have very little scratch compared to most used 78s I've owned. What really chews them up is mechanical phonographs and some of the pre-War electrical pickups that tracked heavy.

[DavGoodlin]

The 78 rpm records should only be played using a 3 mil stylus, diamond or sapphire. Nearly all record players up through the mid-60s had a 78 rpm speed selection and flip-over cartridge with the right-sized stylus. Play a 78 with a .7 mil std styles for 33-45 and it sounds awful.

78 rpm records on older players with a crystal cart will sound appropriate considering the state of the art until 1950s. I have repaired post-war vintage radio-record combinations (Philco M6 player and V-M 400 player) at request of customers who know this.

Play them on a 1950s-60s equipment with a ceramic cart and they are not as pleasant but not overly scratchy.

[dtvmcdonald]

New or like new 78s played on reasonable equipment can be very listenable. Played with a modern replacement ($20 at thevoiceofmusic.com) cartridge into a modern hi-fit setup with even a "mean" shelf equalization can sound better than that.

Even 115 year old records can sound quite good IF they are "like new", which usually
means that they were very unpopular ones.

78s can survive playing even at 50 grams with a steel needle IF the needle is changed
every few records. But they will never be quite the same as new.

A tip in finding good records to use as demos: 78rpm.com auctions. You are much more likely to get excellent surfaces at reasonable prices if you pick classical records,
especially multi-record albums.

I'm listening to the Brahms 4th symphony with the Boston Symphony and Koussevitsky right now on an Admiral 1950 changer that I got at last Sunday's ETF auction for $5 .. and a nice great shape Bakelite case to boot. It cost about $7 to recap and about $20 for a thevoiceofmusic.com KCCD replacement cartridge kit.

It does however need a new idler wheel without a bump in it .. another $30 at thevoiceofmusic.com.

[Dude111]

78s are goregous sounding...... I love them!!

[mr_rye89]

I like 78s, they have a unique sound of ther own

I use a GE VRII Triple Play on a Japanese Gray 108 clone on my Rek O Kut turntable makes for good sounds. A true mono cart with a legit 3 mil stylus helps with the surface noise

[Telecolor 3007]

There where some turntables (record players) that had a rotating needle - one side for micogrooves, the other for 78 r.p.m.
I wonder if the sound from here is true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2zQNGUKPc
If I get me some records (trough all that I have nothing to play them on), I must found some in decent state.
Oh, I do have some. Soviet and Romanian. One day I tried to push one on the axle a non-working record player that some one gave it to me... it cracked pretty fast.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

There where some turntables (record players) that had a rotating needle - one side for micogrooves, the other for 78 r.p.m.
I wonder if the sound from here is true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2zQNGUKPc

That's basically the sound quality my good period equipment gives me. Some gear and records will be better, some will be worse.

I seem to recall Mercury records in the early to mid 50s being mastered with very high dynamic range and fidelity, I bet a minty fresh copy of one of their new releases on an early Hi-Fi system configured for 78s would sound pretty close to an LP.

There were companies that produced microgroove 78s for HiFi after most commercial 78 production ended. One was here in Wisconsin in the 60s.
There's a company called rivermont that's making vinyl stereo 78s currently...I've thought about buying one from them.

[Telecolor 3007]

Wait a minute, there are 78 r.p.m. microgrooves discs?
If the sound is as good on YouTube, I want to try some 78 r.p.m. Not as good as 33 or 45, but still intresting.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

Wait a minute, there are 78 r.p.m. microgrooves discs?
If the sound is as good on YouTube, I want to try some 78 r.p.m. Not as good as 33 or 45, but still intresting.

There were niche market microgroove 78s...they are rare though.

Here's a YouTube video of a capeheart turnover changer that definitely uses the actual audio from the phono.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQWZ4IwaKk

I have the pre-War revision of that capeheart mechanism (just the mechanism though) that I hope to find/make the missing pieces for and make work someday.

[Telecolor 3007]

Well, I'll be God's. Just a few moments ago I was looking for record changers and camed across wounderfull machines like that one - I even entered the video from the link. But I did'nt put the sound on. To be hones, they sound better then I imagine. I will try to find some forgein 78 r.p.m. in good shape.
The ones from the '30's probably don't sound that good, but still better then you imagine.
Oh, yes, I want me one of those machines. As cool as a line casting machine for printing industry.

[maxhifi]

78s actually are quite fun to listen to. If you play them back on good equipment, the sound quality is very enjoyable and surprisingly realistic. They're also very much the closest thing to time travel, because it's possible to hear performances from people who were in their prime 100+ years ago! You need to do some research though, and make sure that the stylus is correct, and that you aren't using RIAA eq, because that will usually make them sound quite bad. High and low pass filters are also a requirement.

[Telecolor 3007]

I know about R.I.A.A. But I wonder if '50's - early '60's turntables (record players) that had 33 and 1/3, 45 and 78 r.p.m. had necesarly R.I.A.A.?
The stylus most no be for microgrooves or what do you mean?