"Restoration" vs "Preservation" vs "?"

[cwmoser]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn

I find I don't watch my restored sets much after the fact, and so I often question why I'd continue doing more of them. It's an enjoyable pastime, so I basically write it off to good cheap entertainment. But I do fear I'll have trouble giving away most of what I've collected if I continue to restore the electronics of them all. For the most part I stopped restoring radio's years ago for the same reason.

I've got 6 electrically restored TVs and like Kevin stated, I rarely watch them.
I really don't need anymore in playing condition so this thread has made me question
if I should electrically restore that Dumont RA-113 TV I acquired. I'm now thinking
about just giving it a good cleaning inside, outside, chassis to make it look
nice, and maybe but not sure go as far as Howards on the cabinetry.

Still, it is a lot of fun bringing these old TVs back to working condition.

Carl

[cwmoser]

I also concur with DecoJoe and Marty about refinishing cabinets.
I onely have one TV with cabinet refinished - a Zenith Porthole- that
I purchased already refinished. It just does not have the character
of an original finish and patina.

[Dave S]

Wow, this thread is absolutely fascinating!

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by cwmoser

I've got 6 electrically restored TVs and like Kevin stated, I rarely watch them.
I really don't need anymore in playing condition so this thread has made me question
if I should electrically restore that Dumont RA-113 TV I acquired. I'm now thinking
about just giving it a good cleaning inside, outside, chassis to make it look
nice, and maybe but not sure go as far as Howards on the cabinetry.

Still, it is a lot of fun bringing these old TVs back to working condition.

Carl

I am exactly the opposite of both Kevin and Carl. I don't want them taking up needed space if I can't enjoy watching them. My favorite is an often mentioned 56 Philco that I bought about 30 years ago working original and it still works today the same as it did then. In 30 years it has seen a replacement for the original CRT (that was still viewable but dim) and I replaced a wax/paper capacitor that was causing loss of vertical height.

I find it to be phenomenal every time I watch it that I AM watching a set that was around over a decade before I was born! Then I have sets that I have recapped and I get that self gratification thing going when I watch them as they are along more normal lines of being acquired not working and likely dormant for decades. Either way to me it is all fascinating. As a more modern student of electronics, I find the concept of thermionic emission to be in ways more "high tech" than what we deal with (or don't) today. I believe that you have to understand electronics more to be able to understand what is going on in an older TV or radio than what is out there now. BUT we don't service what is out there now. We don't need to understand it. We just throw it away and get a new one. I guess if I were one of the high end engineers coming up with the latest stuff I would see it in a different light

But at my level of electronics repair I see P.LC.s (computers) controlling field devices more than anything, and it really just dumbs down what it takes to be a tech these days. Now none of the guys I work with would ever admit this. They know everything and many laugh at old technology, but I think that it is a mode of ego self protection. Because the truth be known, most of them wouldn't know where to begin servicing an electronic device be it tube type or solid state. They are mostly plug and play techs with their minds believing that everything revolves around 1s and 0s. Quite a shame...

[vts1134]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn

I find I don't watch my restored sets much after the fact, and so I often question why I'd continue doing more of them. It's an enjoyable pastime, so I basically write it off to good cheap entertainment. But I do fear I'll have trouble giving away most of what I've collected if I continue to restore the electronics of them all. For the most part I stopped restoring radio's years ago for the same reason.

I wonder how many of us are reading Kevin's reply and thinking the same thing. I believe the joy is in the process of restoration much more than the finished product for so many of us.

[decojoe67]

Originally Posted by vts1134

I wonder how many of us are reading Kevin's reply and thinking the same thing. I believe the joy is in the process of restoration much more than the finished product for so many of us.

I have never done elec. restorations, but can only imagine the feeling of accomplishment when you get an old dusty chassis working again. Even though I'm a collector who loves to use all his sets, I can appreciate that stance on the subject. At this point in time I have about 9 vintage TV's and I thoroughly enjoy using each one as I rotate through them. If I have a problem with one, within the week it's on my repairman's bench. Fortunately that's not too often!

[cwmoser]

Decojoe, you are living in the era of those TV's by playing them, and dealing with
getting them repaired - no tossing and going to Best Buy to purchase a new TV:-)

Carl

[Kevin Kuehn]

Originally Posted by cwmoser

I've got 6 electrically restored TVs and like Kevin stated, I rarely watch them.
I really don't need anymore in playing condition so this thread has made me question
if I should electrically restore that Dumont RA-113 TV I acquired. I'm now thinking
about just giving it a good cleaning inside, outside, chassis to make it look
nice, and maybe but not sure go as far as Howards on the cabinetry.

Still, it is a lot of fun bringing these old TVs back to working condition.

Carl

Well I hope my comments didn't come off as sounding harsh or negative towards anyone's collecting efforts. I honestly think restoring these old sets is a very wholesome and educational pastime. My personal situation here in rural WI is that our local demographics will never allow for myself or family members to swiftly disperse of whatever I do bring home, so that's something that I keep in the back of my mind when I consider bringing home another treasure. I'm not sure there's any good answer to the situation other that an ongoing attempt at moderation. That, along with occasionally testing the waters by selling or giving away an older treasure.

[ChrisW6ATV]

As I think about the "restore versus preserve" question, here is an example I came up with: What if someone found a 1920s or 1930s Duesenberg, of a model that was either unknown before or maybe only the second one known to exist, that had not been touched since 1938? Even if the paint was in very good condition, would the collector community prefer to leave its original but falling-off-rotted tires and hoses on the car, and maybe moth- or rodent-eaten upholstery visible from several feet away? What if the same car was found, but in a leaky garage or barn, so its paint was in poor shape and the body had plenty of rust? Is there a "typical" level of one-time and/or ongoing work done on any such unique or near-unique vehicles from 75 or more years ago, whether those vehicles were found in 2005 or have been cared for since, say, 1950?

My experience with museums is that things almost always look "like new", or very close to it. In the case of mechanical or electronic items in museums, I always think that they would work fine as well (either from restoration or some magical condition where they never deteriorated), even if I am wrong about that. In the bigger picture, are any one of us TV collectors intending to preserve things only for the most scholarly historians in the future, or for any average person to see them and say "Wow, black-and-white video on a big, heavy wooden box! Cool!", or for someone in between?

I am mostly in the "restore with minimal externally-visible changes" group. So, I will always re-stuff can-type electrolytic capacitors, but I will use modern parts as-is under the chassis. I have a set that will force me to make a tough decision one day, because it IS a near-one-of-a-kind item: a 1956 Muntz 721CV color TV set, the only one known with a mahogany cabinet, and also likely the only one with its original tuner. Do I restore it (including re-stuffing all wax capacitors on its visible PC boards), or leave it alone? It has a (likely RCA-built) CTC-5 Super chassis, so it would not be unique in any way as a working set.

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by vts1134

I wonder how many of us are reading Kevin's reply and thinking the same thing. I believe the joy is in the process of restoration much more than the finished product for so many of us.

Add me to that list. After completion, I'll watch the set regularly for a month or two, then just turn it on occasionally. I don't watch much TV to begin with, so I think that Kevin was spot on when he said this:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn

I for one feel that I was brought into this world maybe 50-60 years too late for my intended purpose. So in a sense I'm using the old TV's and radios as my creative medium, probably in an attempt to provide a service that has no real use in today's society. I honestly feel like I have some sort of spiritual drive that keeps compelling me to studying and fixing up the old stuff, and at the same time I'm witnessing my insanity in what often seems like a huge waste of my time.

That says it ALL right there. This is what leads many of us (me included) to have houses packed full of stuff that we see as being treasured and valuable but nobody else does. At ALL, for the most part.

We eventually end up becoming slaves to the stuff if we allow that to happen, and either way end up stacking things one atop the other in an attempt to have our own private museums or live in an era that left us long ago.

I myself have re-evaluated TV restoration and collecting as a hobby more times than I can count. Including now. This thread has made me take a serious look at myself, and what I want to do. Problem is, that it's a lot of fun and I don't wanna quit

[Bill Cahill]

Neh. Me, I enjoy the fun of bringing them back to life from the dead. And, working that's less waste, so, less stuff at the dump. I get a real thrill seeing the face of the tube light up for the first time in Lord knows how many years.

[StellarTV]

I enjoy being able to fire up a set when someone asks 'does that still work?'

Can't have a non-working set sitting around for too long.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by StellarTV

Can't have a non-working set sitting around for too long.

That hit a nail on the head sort of for me in a point that I think is worth noting here, just leave out the "non-working" part for now. In my experience a lot of what dictates whether or not a set needs restoration, to what degree, or even not is how long it has been retired from line current and for what reason(s), if any.

I always have to reference back to the two sets that I have owned the longest. My 56 Philco and a round about 1951 or 2 Sparton. I got both of them around the same time over 30 years ago in working condition. In those days they were more or less junk, but a few people still used them, usually older people who easily remembered a time when there was no television, so they were perfectly fine with a decent working black and white set of any age. TVs were never cheap and to many of these people they were an investment and back then we didn't invest, discard for better, re-invest, discard for better. We just used what we had for as long as it would last, and that was often a very long time.

Anyway, my point was that these sets had been used periodically since new, but also nobody let sets play around the clock back then either, so the hours on them wasn't that high. However, the time that they were used helped to keep them going longer than if they had sat since say 1965. Every time I have found a set that has been dormant for several decades, it's about a for sure restoration and you darned sure better not plug it into the AC line. Inversely, you can come and plug in either of the two sets I have mentioned and you will watch television. I must admit that the old Sparton is about ready for some caps, but it will still come on with one heck of a crisp picture. It just takes several minutes for the horizontal size to spread out, then the vertical size starts to shrink. So nothing really lasts forever, but after 60+ years of faithful service, I'm not going to complain.

[Tom Albrecht]

This is an excellent thread, and even though we all have slightly different tastes and motivations, for the most part we can understand where everyone is coming from.

First and foremost, I enjoy the restoration process itself, especially electronic restoration (although I do some cabinet refinishing and restoration as well). Once the sets are done, I watch them a bit from time to time. I actually watch very little TV overall, so it's possible that about 20% of my total TV watching time is watching one of the old restored sets in my office. Easily another 20% of my total TV watching time is watching a set on the bench that is currently under restoration.

As far as accumulating a lot of sets, I've really started to move away from that direction. I've seen way too many huge collections that appear to serve no purpose, and end up being a real disposal problem after the owner passes away. I have something like 15 sets now, and I don't want that number to increase any further.

In recent years, rather than accumulating more sets for myself, I've been doing more restorations for other people (lots of radios, but some TVs too). A simple listing on the CHRS club website ended up bringing me more business than I could deal with (on the order of 1-2 sets per week), so I recently pulled the listing and now I just do it for repeat customers and a few people who somehow figure out I like to do this. This has gotten it down to a few per month, which is manageable.

I've also started selling some of my TVs on Radio Attic. Shipping TVs is pretty high risk, but I think I've got a pretty good method of packing, and as far as I can tell, all customers have been happy so far.

Selling a few allows me to pick up a set here and there. If I come across something exceptional, like the CT-100 I'm restoring now, I'll keep it. Most others are now sets I pick up with an eye toward selling on Radio Attic when they're done.

For now, this seems to be a workable balance that allows me to keep enjoying the restoration process without accumulating too many sets that I don't need. And I do enjoy watching the sets that I have kept. All my sets are working, and I have basically no interest in having a set that does not work.

[Glenz75]

I pretty much concur with everyones responses and opinions and feelings. Its always interesting to read about other peoples take in this.
Me - I take the getting it going approach and generally replace all the old components etc so the set can function properly. I would probably never take on a real basket case project or the likes. I try and find sets in good original condition and luckily most of my TVs have been like that. Needless too say that I'm probably the only one in New Zealand who is actually collecting and repairing these old NZ televisions so I try and get anything that shows up. Unfortunately I am running out or space and may need too have a big reshuffle in the den and maybe rent a storage space if any more larger future sets show up. I'm sure all of you can relate to this one. We are all caretakers for these vintage TVs and Hope that future generations will appreciate them as much as us after We depart this earth.
Please excuse my poor gramar as I'm typing this on a cheap chinese made crappy andriod tablet...:-)