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  #31  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:17 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Originally Posted by KentTeffeteller View Post
And also don't expect ATSC3 to be practical either when Cable TV and Satellite can't even give us pristine 1080p without being downrezzed either.
At times watching cable TV at this point is like watching TV though a FP PXL2000 camcorder.Its horrible here at times.
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  #32  
Old 12-10-2017, 08:46 AM
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And for many who live beyond strongest signal area, that or satellite is your choice if you want much to watch that isn't discs.
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:35 PM
rose14 rose14 is offline
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I believe WRAL in North Carolina is test broadcasting the noon news in ATSC 3.0. They were the first station to do local broadcasts in HD .
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2017, 12:34 PM
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I just read two articles about the new ATSC 3.0 television standard. One of them said not to panic when the new standard is enacted, as the existing ATSC 1.0 system will be with us until at least the year 2023; however, after that, everything will change, with new TVs, converter boxes, etc. being required to receive anything at all on TV (not unlike the warning that was issued when TV went from analog to digital in 2009), even if you do not have cable and watch all your TV over the air.

My question, however, is this: Will the new ATSC 3.0 standard affect viewers who watch TV via video streaming devices such as Roku, Apple TV, Google TV, Amazon Fire TV, et al., or is the new standard poised to be just another money grab for broadcasters and TV/converter box manufacturers, as was the DTV transition itself? In other words, will the ATSC 3.0 standard force people to buy all new equipment, including new televisions? I read in the two articles I mentioned that the new standard will not be backward-compatible, whatever that means, so everyone will need to buy a new TV or use a converter box when the new standard goes into effect in 2023 or whenever.

Good grief! I think this whole thing is just going to be another cash grab. The articles I read did mention that the new standard will result in better TV pictures by way of higher image resolution, better sound and so on; however, I think ATSC 3.0, as I mentioned earlier, will be just another money grab, forcing everyone to buy new equipment. The standard's developers need to realize that many people, particularly older people on fixed incomes (such as myself; I am 61 years old and live on Social Security Disability due to a brain injury at birth), will not be able to afford new TVs, at least not until they come down in price after having been on the market awhile, as did large-screen HD and 4K TVs.

Cable operators will provide set-top boxes that will allow older sets to work with the new standard, but these are only stopgap measures until the old set quits, then the viewer will have no choice but to get a new one. The articles I read and mentioned earlier are telling readers not to panic, as the new standards will not go into effect for "at least" another five years, but I just don't know. The first DTV transition, eight years ago, was bad enough; now another one has just been approved that will put the American public through the same monkey business of having to buy new TVs, converters, etc. as we went through then. Good grief, I even read that the new ATSC 3.0 standard will permit broadcasters to air more commercials, only now these annoying things will be aimed at specific states, cities, towns and even individual viewers.

Sheeeeesh! Where will all this end......I'm afraid?
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 12-15-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2017, 01:30 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I just read two articles about the new ATSC 3.0 television standard. One of them said not to panic when the new standard is enacted, as the existing ATSC 1.0 system will be with us until at least the year 2023; however, after that, everything will change, with new TVs, converter boxes, etc. being required to receive anything at all on TV (not unlike the warning that was issued when TV went from analog to digital in 2009), even if you do not have cable and watch all your TV over the air.

My question, however, is this: Will the new ATSC 3.0 standard affect viewers who watch TV via video streaming devices such as Roku, Apple TV, Google TV, Amazon Fire TV, et al., or is the new standard poised to be just another money grab for broadcasters and TV/converter box manufacturers, as was the DTV transition itself? In other words, will the ATSC 3.0 standard force people to buy all new equipment, including new televisions? I read in the two articles I mentioned that the new standard will not be backward-compatible, whatever that means, so everyone will need to buy a new TV or use a converter box when the new standard goes into effect in 2023 or whenever.

Good grief! I think this whole thing is just going to be another cash grab. The articles I read did mention that the new standard will result in better TV pictures by way of higher image resolution, better sound and so on; however, I think ATSC 3.0, as I mentioned earlier, will be just another money grab, forcing everyone to buy new equipment. The standard's developers need to realize that many people, particularly older people on fixed incomes (such as myself; I am 61 years old and live on Social Security Disability due to a brain injury at birth), will not be able to afford new TVs, at least not until they come down in price after having been on the market awhile, as did large-screen HD and 4K TVs.

Cable operators will provide set-top boxes that will allow older sets to work with the new standard, but these are only stopgap measures until the old set quits, then the viewer will have no choice but to get a new one. The articles I read and mentioned earlier are telling readers not to panic, as the new standards will not go into effect for "at least" another five years, but I just don't know. The first DTV transition, eight years ago, was bad enough; now another one has just been approved that will put the American public through the same monkey business of having to buy new TVs, converters, etc. as we went through then. Good grief, I even read that the new ATSC 3.0 standard will permit broadcasters to air more commercials, only now these annoying things will be aimed at specific states, cities, towns and even individual viewers.

Sheeeeesh! Where will all this end......I'm afraid?
This topic make my blood boil. No offense to you guys.With all the corruptness from the telecommunications corps and the higher up elites,Hollyweird and the fake MSM are pushing it saying its better then ever BS .It will continue forever or until OTA TV is completely will be eliminated.The later is more likely to happen.Radio will be next.
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2017, 04:25 PM
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ATSC was approved by the FCC on November 16, 2017. As Jeffhs said, ATSC 1.0 will be required to be broadcast for 5 years then it goes away as things stand now. ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 will broadcast simultaneously during the next 5 years in the individual markets that adopt ATSC 3.0. ATSC 3.0 IS VOULENTARY. Television manufacturers will incorporate dual tuners for 1.0 and 3.0. on new sets. Converter boxes will be available to receive ATSC 3.0 on existing sets just as digital converter boxes allow OTA 1.0 to be seem on analog sets.

Broadcasters now have the ability to send “premium” OTA 4K broadband services along side the free 4K broadcasts. As it stands now Congress mandates every household to be able to receive free OTA television. ATSC 3.0 claims to be more reliable that can be received from longer distances including deep into concrete buildings. It can be received by mobile devises and fast moving cars and commuter trains. It has multi channel sound beyond 5.1 surround. Wide color gamut and high dynamic range is available for those that care.

Premium services OTT will be go beyond what cable and satellite provide with better quality. This is why the cable companies were fighting the adoption of ATSC 3.0
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2017, 05:07 PM
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This will probably force the cable companies to innovate (increase their bandwidth) or cut back channels (to divide existant bandwidth among fewer channels) available. If OTA provides higher bit rates than cable for the same content, then viewers will notice.
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2017, 06:38 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
This will probably force the cable companies to innovate (increase their bandwidth) or cut back channels (to divide existant bandwidth among fewer channels) available. If OTA provides higher bit rates than cable for the same content, then viewers will notice.
We will be loosing channels that are going off the air with the DTV repack.So probably a few channels will be open for them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
ATSC was approved by the FCC on November 16, 2017. As Jeffhs said, ATSC 1.0 will be required to be broadcast for 5 years then it goes away as things stand now. ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 will broadcast simultaneously during the next 5 years in the individual markets that adopt ATSC 3.0. ATSC 3.0 IS VOULENTARY. Television manufacturers will incorporate dual tuners for 1.0 and 3.0. on new sets. Converter boxes will be available to receive ATSC 3.0 on existing sets just as digital converter boxes allow OTA 1.0 to be seem on analog sets.

Broadcasters now have the ability to send “premium” OTA 4K broadband services along side the free 4K broadcasts. As it stands now Congress mandates every household to be able to receive free OTA television. ATSC 3.0 claims to be more reliable that can be received from longer distances including deep into concrete buildings. It can be received by mobile devises and fast moving cars and commuter trains. It has multi channel sound beyond 5.1 surround. Wide color gamut and high dynamic range is available for those that care.

Premium services OTT will be go beyond what cable and satellite provide with better quality. This is why the cable companies were fighting the adoption of ATSC 3.0
Will that sounds promising about better reception or is it another sales pitch to make viewers happy.
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2017, 07:19 PM
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I was asking whether the change to ATSC 3.0 will have any effect on streaming video services such as Roku, Google TV, etc. Since these services have nothing to do with OTA television, I would think the streaming services would continue unfettered just as they are now, regardless of what OTA TV standard happens to be in effect. I saw nothing in either of the two articles I read which would indicate streaming video would be affected in any way once ATSC 3.0 becomes the new standard; if anyone else here has heard or read anything to the contrary, I would appreciate any comments. I am personally sick and tired of all this "reinventing the wheel" every few years (first b&w TV, then color, then MTS stereo TV sound, NTSC to ATSC 1.0, and now this), forcing the public to buy new TVs or converter boxes when the standards change.

The system (ATSC 1.0) is not "broken", so why even attempt to fix it? If such is attempted, I believe the result will be a worse TV system than we have today. The only real reason the FCC wants to change the present DTV standard is, you guessed it, to give cable operators, TV manufacturers and makers of set-top boxes the opportunity to sell more and more of these devices, not to mention new TVs. I don't even want to think of what the FCC may have in mind after ATSC 3.0 has been around a few years; my best guess is they will want to implement yet another standard, say, 10 years from now. If and when that happens, well, here we go again!


BTW, I read the comments regarding the future of OTA AM and FM radio, and honestly, I couldn't care less what happens to either service. AM radio is now mostly talk, while FM stations in most cities play nothing but rock, which in my opinion is just noise. I live 30 miles from Cleveland and 40-50 miles from the city's FM stations, and cannot stand any of the stations' programming; therefore, most of the time I listen to my own cassettes, CDs and mp3 audio files.

I am very disappointed in an Internet music service, known as "The Breeze" (http://www.thebreez.com) from Crown Point, Indiana, which used to play easy listening. The service may still offer this type of music, but to date I haven't been able to stream it on my computer, after months of trouble-free streaming until earlier this year. The company that owns this is known as Radionomy.com; it took over the former owners of The Breeze, but I swear they must have done something to encrypt their streams, since I cannot hear them any longer. This station, as "The Breeze", was my one escape from the constant rock noise blaring from Cleveland's FM stations. ......

Oh well.
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2017, 08:39 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I was asking whether the change to ATSC 3.0 will have any effect on streaming video services such as Roku, Google TV, etc. Since these services have nothing to do with OTA television, I would think the streaming services would continue unfettered just as they are now, regardless of what OTA TV standard happens to be in effect. I saw nothing in either of the two articles I read which would indicate streaming video would be affected in any way once ATSC 3.0 becomes the new standard; if anyone else here has heard or read anything to the contrary, I would appreciate any comments. I am personally sick and tired of all this "reinventing the wheel" every few years (first b&w TV, then color, then MTS stereo TV sound, NTSC to ATSC 1.0, and now this), forcing the public to buy new TVs or converter boxes when the standards change.

The system (ATSC 1.0) is not "broken", so why even attempt to fix it? If such is attempted, I believe the result will be a worse TV system than we have today. The only real reason the FCC wants to change the present DTV standard is, you guessed it, to give cable operators, TV manufacturers and makers of set-top boxes the opportunity to sell more and more of these devices, not to mention new TVs. I don't even want to think of what the FCC may have in mind after ATSC 3.0 has been around a few years; my best guess is they will want to implement yet another standard, say, 10 years from now. If and when that happens, well, here we go again!


BTW, I read the comments regarding the future of OTA AM and FM radio, and honestly, I couldn't care less what happens to either service. AM radio is now mostly talk, while FM stations in most cities play nothing but rock, which in my opinion is just noise. I live 30 miles from Cleveland and 40-50 miles from the city's FM stations, and cannot stand any of the stations' programming; therefore, most of the time I listen to my own cassettes, CDs and mp3 audio files.

I am very disappointed in an Internet music service, known as "The Breeze" (http://www.thebreez.com) from Crown Point, Indiana, which used to play easy listening. The service may still offer this type of music, but to date I haven't been able to stream it on my computer, after months of trouble-free streaming until earlier this year. The company that owns this is known as Radionomy.com; it took over the former owners of The Breeze, but I swear they must have done something to encrypt their streams, since I cannot hear them any longer. This station, as "The Breeze", was my one escape from the constant rock noise blaring from Cleveland's FM stations. ......

Oh well.
Sorry about not understanding some of your last post.I dont know much about Roku since I dont have one here.The streaming online here is great.Better if you download the videos .I see already corrupt Hollyweird will more likely have everything encrypt so watching it on TV probably be over .Note on the radio end I dont like the idea that the little people will get screwed with out of a job if they shut down.I do agree on their crappy shot playlists that rotate about 20 songs.Thats on any format including Christmas formats too.My local AM station is a a full service live and local station that plays oldies from the 1940s to the 1980's .News on the hour .No talk shows . Now they are Christmas which I enjoy too.Its even in AM Stereo to boot.LOL............................


Strange if the Breeze stream is encrypt.I wonder if they just change their streaming format.Stations have a habit doing that.
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  #41  
Old 12-15-2017, 09:36 PM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
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I can see FM going full digital. It just did in Sweden. The end results are the listening audience has dropped from 10% to 25% as receivers are expensive for both autos and homes (is digital FM subject to Doppler problems like TV?). I listen regularly to AM (talk and music) especially at night by skip. I'll throw one hell of a fit should the "clowns" in DC take AM digital. AM is the "last resort" should all other broadcast communication fail. There are hundreds of millions of operable receivers. Change that and I'll pull the plug on all domestic broadcast wireless listening.
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:07 AM
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Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet? I would think all that would be needed with these boxes would be for the software to be upgraded for the new standard; they upgrade themselves daily anyway (with a provision to manually upgrade if desired), so any new software will be in place as soon as it is needed.

I hardly think Roku will go out of business in five years (or whatever) just because some new TV standard has been enacted; as I said, when ATSC 3.0 is the new standard for TV broadcasting, taking over completely from ATSC 1.0, Roku's players will keep up with the technology, with little or no interaction required from viewers. Roku cannot afford to let itself become obsolete, as there are probably millions of these players in use worldwide.

Where this idea that "watching TV will be over" eventually, if Hollywood decides to encrypt video streams, ever got started is beyond me. Most Americans do not understand or care about the technical reasons for scrambling video streams or anything else connected with television, so if this ever happens, there will very likely be a huge backlash. Americans like their TV and do not want the government to mess with it.

I do not believe, either, that Hollywood will start encrypting video any time soon. Tell me this: If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video streams, will they be prepared for the sheer number of viewers who will complain loudly and incessantly? I realize that the change to ATSC 3.0 is nothing more than a huge cash grab, but good grief, this is too much. If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video, how on earth will they expect people to watch television, or whatever it may be called in five years, after the standards change? For that matter, will there even be an "ATSC 3.0" standard, say, ten years from now? I believe the FCC just might enact five new standards in that time, each rendering the previous one obsolete and requiring viewers to buy new TVs or converter boxes each time the standards change. People on fixed incomes won't be able to afford that, and will likely stop watching TV, which the networks, local stations, and Hollywood will not like in the least.

Good grief.
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  #43  
Old 12-16-2017, 03:45 AM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet? I would think all that would be needed with these boxes would be for the software to be upgraded for the new standard; they upgrade themselves daily anyway (with a provision to manually upgrade if desired), so any new software will be in place as soon as it is needed.

I hardly think Roku will go out of business in five years (or whatever) just because some new TV standard has been enacted; as I said, when ATSC 3.0 is the new standard for TV broadcasting, taking over completely from ATSC 1.0, Roku's players will keep up with the technology, with little or no interaction required from viewers. Roku cannot afford to let itself become obsolete, as there are probably millions of these players in use worldwide.

Where this idea that "watching TV will be over" eventually, if Hollywood decides to encrypt video streams, ever got started is beyond me. Most Americans do not understand or care about the technical reasons for scrambling video streams or anything else connected with television, so if this ever happens, there will very likely be a huge backlash. Americans like their TV and do not want the government to mess with it.

I do not believe, either, that Hollywood will start encrypting video any time soon. Tell me this: If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video streams, will they be prepared for the sheer number of viewers who will complain loudly and incessantly? I realize that the change to ATSC 3.0 is nothing more than a huge cash grab, but good grief, this is too much. If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video, how on earth will they expect people to watch television, or whatever it may be called in five years, after the standards change? For that matter, will there even be an "ATSC 3.0" standard, say, ten years from now? I believe the FCC just might enact five new standards in that time, each rendering the previous one obsolete and requiring viewers to buy new TVs or converter boxes each time the standards change. People on fixed incomes won't be able to afford that, and will likely stop watching TV, which the networks, local stations, and Hollywood will not like in the least.

Good grief.
Again I dont know much about Roku but maybe there will be flash updates for them to continue working like you said. .If its streaming off the internet It has nothing to do with OTA signals.As far as I know.I do agree with you latter part of your statement.Yes its a game to keep the money ball rolling.Job security for some.Maybe I 'll get a Roku someday but I dont want to pay for any subscription packages from it.
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  #44  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:36 AM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Sorry, but you are still not answering my question.
You worry way too much over things you have no control over. Enjoy what you have now, and quit worrying over questions that have no answers.

.
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  #45  
Old 12-16-2017, 10:28 AM
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Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet?
Streaming services like Roku won't be affected at all even if all TV broadcasts stopped tomorrow because they get their content form the Internet. They don't even have a tuner. They're just little computers with special software.
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