Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Early Color Television

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:17 PM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,862
RCA CTC15 flyback replacement

I have a chassis on my bench to repair for the owner of a very deserving RCA Victor TV-Stereo combination. This one has the all-tube high fidelity stereo amp, tuner and studiomatic record changer. It also has a cooked flyback, which I am to replace and set up.

He obtained an RCA replacement flyback #113382 (not a Thordarson FLY277), which is listed as the part number in Sams 673. The funny thing is, when I unsealed the new-in-box flyback, it had one less winding tap terminal than the original does.

There is no "D" terminal for the damper tube cathode connection. From looking at Thordarson diagrams posted in a thread here, the FLY 277 does have this terminal. D appears to be an added winding beyond the C1 terminal to the H centering control.

It was wrapped in a page of the New York Times from 1975, probably from the parts division in Harrison NJ. The fly itself was made in Mexico, yet had the RCA number stamped on it. It also had a tube socket for a 2AV2 focus rect tube, oriented vertically, that fits in the HV cage.

I'm thinking RCA decided the tube was better than the selenium stick that was only used on the '15. See original schematic attached. Yellow is what changed. RCA ctc15_113382 fly.jpg

Have any of you encountered this before?
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 05-01-2018 at 03:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-03-2018, 03:04 PM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,862
There are many CTC15 owners on VK, maybe they did not see the post. Hasn't anyone run into this issue with an RCA replacement fly before?

So, do I connect the Damper D terminal to C1 or C2. I'm sure it matters and I do NOT want to risk damaging the RCA replacement fly.

I get to work on this chassis again tomorrow and return it in a week, if anyone knows something please help.
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 05-03-2018 at 03:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:22 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post
There are many CTC15 owners on VK, maybe they did not see the post. Hasn't anyone run into this issue with an RCA replacement fly before?

So, do I connect the Damper D terminal to C1 or C2. I'm sure it matters and I do NOT want to risk damaging the RCA replacement fly.

I get to work on this chassis again tomorrow and return it in a week, if anyone knows something please help.
It seems that the flyback is for the newer chassis, CTC16E or CTC16X. Is there a lead and plate cap for the 3A3 plate cap on the fly or fitting on top of the HV winding that receives the plate cap of the 3A3?
I've never seen a flyback for a CTC 15 or the clones that used a 1V2/2AV2 instead of the stick. To me it would've been an improvement.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-03-2018, 10:09 PM
bgadow's Avatar
bgadow bgadow is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Federalsburg, MD
Posts: 5,594
Well, Dave...I have a NOS 113382 sitting right in my lap at this moment. The UPS shipping label is dated 1970. Mine has a 'D' terminal on the upper right (only thing connected to it is a blue wire running into the core) and no tube socket.

As Pee-Wee Herman would say, "What does it mean? I DON'T KNOW!"
__________________
Bryan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:05 AM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,862
I WILL need to post a picture of this replacement, after I install it. This is of interest to anyone with a CTC15 that has a later OEM replacement for it or in it already. This combo will gain even one more tube.

I suspect this OEM replacement is an improved version over the original, and it was packed with the wrong instructions, showing the post-CTC15 style drop-in for a 3CA3, with notes for a CTC17

What it does have is a socket all ready for the 2AV2 mounted vertically within the cage, also there is no 3.6 ohm resistor in the filament winding like a 1V2. There is a bracket for the focus coil transplant and terminal strip for the 66M and 1.meg focus dropping resistors. Too bad no instructions were included tho.

It does have a plate cap for the 3A3 like the original, and it has an insulated red wire already soldered to C1 along with the centering control also soldered to C2. This red lead can only be for the damper choke connection under the chassis.

Note that CTC11 and CTC12 both have C1 and K as the same tap. I wonder what the extra winding terminal K or D on the original 113382 in a CTC15 was meant to do.
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 05-04-2018 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 05-04-2018, 12:23 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post
I WILL need to post a picture of this replacement, after I install it. This is of interest to anyone with a CTC15 that has a later OEM replacement for it or in it already. This combo will gain even one more tube.

I suspect this OEM replacement is an improved version over the original, and it was packed with the wrong instructions, showing the post-CTC15 style drop-in for a 3CA3, with notes for a CTC17

What it does have is a socket all ready for the 2AV2 mounted vertically within the cage, also there is no 3.6 ohm resistor in the filament winding like a 1V2. There is a bracket for the focus coil transplant and terminal strip for the 66M and 1.meg focus dropping resistors. Too bad no instructions were included tho.

It does have a plate cap for the 3A3 like the original, and it has an insulated red wire already soldered to C1 along with the centering control also soldered to C2. This red lead can only be for the damper choke connection under the chassis.

Note that CTC11 and CTC12 both have C1 and K as the same tap. I wonder what the extra winding terminal K or D on the original 113382 in a CTC15 was meant to do.
That's a new one on me! Not that it isn't an improvement.
Then I remembered that the flyback for the CTC 16 chassis doesn't have the focus rectifier mounted on the flyback, but on the side of the HV cage like the later chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2018, 07:31 PM
old_coot88 old_coot88 is online now
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,936
Dang, that's a new one on me too. We were an authorized RCA dealer/servicer and sold the '15 from its debut thru the end of its run, and replaced a lot of flybacks, but never ran into one of those.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-04-2018, 09:48 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_coot88 View Post
Dang, that's a new one on me too. We were an authorized RCA dealer/servicer and sold the '15 from its debut thru the end of its run, and replaced a lot of flybacks, but never ran into one of those.
I can't understand why RCA flybacks were that lousy. The rest of the set wasn't that bad. It seemed that the high humidity summer time, the failure rate increased.
The flys used in the clones were made by a different supplier, but they were almost as bad.
Admirals, that didn't use a regulator tube were as bad. G13, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-04-2018, 10:03 PM
andy's Avatar
andy andy is online now
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,002
On the last 2 RCAs I've had with a bad flyback, it was the rubber covering that seemed to have caused it to fail. It had become slightly conductive. I was able to save one by removing the rubber, scraping away the carbon, and coating it with silicone rubber.
__________________
Wanted list:
RCA CTC-5
RCA CTC19 or 27
Sony KV-7010U
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:39 PM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 10,177
Are you sure the number on the actual part, not just the box is a valid substitute? It sounds like a fly for a different chassis or a clone based on RCA.
__________________
Tom C.

What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4

Reading between the scan lines since the mid 2000's.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 05-07-2018, 09:18 AM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 2,862
Old and New OEM HOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
Are you sure the number on the actual part, not just the box is a valid substitute? It sounds like a fly for a different chassis or a clone based on RCA.
These flys do have different "part" numbers stamped on them, 906141-501 and 906152-501 but the RCA and Sams both reference 113382. My best guess is that THordarson and others were improved copies of the original, but only RCA offered a "factory upgrade" of the focus rectifier from stick to tube. The mounting/tight hole for the pulse coil, FC and BB wires were an exact copy of the original. The D-lead is the red one in the front, disappearing under the chassis. It fits like a glove.

113382 fly old and new.jpg

After looking how this fits the CTC15, it is the correct but "factory-improved" replacement. And since most clones were CTC15 anyway, would not fit my CTC12 and is certainly not for a 16,16X and later. This fly was bought from Moyers about 17 years ago, back when "high - failure rate " parts were not so scarce. Also, buy the time this fly was packed at RCA (1975), few repairman wanted to mess with these fine sets anymore, so it sat waiting for a buyer
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 05-07-2018 at 09:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-07-2018, 11:20 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post


These flys do have different "part" numbers stamped on them, 906141-501 and 906152-501 but the RCA and Sams both reference 113382. My best guess is that THordarson and others were improved copies of the original, but only RCA offered a "factory upgrade" of the focus rectifier from stick to tube. The mounting/tight hole for the pulse coil, FC and BB wires were an exact copy of the original. The D-lead is the red one in the front, disappearing under the chassis. It fits like a glove.

Attachment 197037

After looking how this fits the CTC15, it is the correct but "factory-improved" replacement. And since most clones were CTC15 anyway, would not fit my CTC12 and is certainly not for a 16,16X and later. This fly was bought from Moyers about 17 years ago, back when "high - failure rate " parts were not so scarce. Also, buy the time this fly was packed at RCA (1975), few repairman wanted to mess with these fine sets anymore, so it sat waiting for a buyer
It's been ages since I replaced one of those. 35 or almost 40 years ago. I even forgot what it looked like.
RCA was always a PITA with their part numbering scheme, where the part was stamped with a "drawing number" and it was catalogued under a "stock number". GE did it almost the same way, even before the takeover of RCA.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.