1949? Motorola 10VT24R, TS-14B chassis

[Eric H]

You need to find the horizontal frequency coil and adjust that, the Horizontal Hold control Pot is just a coarse adjustment, there should be a coil somewhere on the chassis connected to the oscillator tube that will bring it into range.

[Electronic M]

If you have vertical sync. and can't get the horizontal to sync or even a single sideways rolling image, then the sync sep. etc are probably fine.

That osc. squeal means the horizontal osc. frequency is WAY off. Check resistors in the osc. circuit and change any mica caps in the horizontal. If that fails adjust the osc. transformer....There will likely be a O-scope-less procedure in the Sam's for the set for adjusting the osc transformer. It is workable to do it that way, but using a scope will make it much quicker and easier.

If you plan to continue to do TV work, an oscilloscope is going to be necessary eventually or at it will least save you hours of confusion.

[ZackN920]

Welp, a big thanks to you guy's!!!

I checked over a bunch of resistors in that circut. Most have drifted up some. I'll probably replace a good number, before i'm all done as they are right above the 20% tolerance.
Also printed out the schematic and had that in front of me. I'm surprised at how many caps were (previously) replaced with values that didn't match.(the schematic)
I don't know if I should switch my replacement's now that are in there, or just leave it as is(I didn't use the schematic to recap, just went by what was inside)

Anyway's I found that adjustment coil, and decided to see what I could do. After several turns clockwise, I could see the images blocked up on top of each other. Kept going and it locked into one full image! I then dialed it in with the horiz. hold control and centered it in the control.
Wow, I got a pretty damn good looking picture....but IT's UPSIDE DOWN!!!lol Yoke is positioned correctly...do I have the vertical connections on the yoke miswired??
I also still need to center the picture as well. I notice that it's got a little wave as well and slight geometry issues... And an issue with the best sound and best image not being together with the fine tuning control. Has some buzz and gets quiet when adjusted to best image, and a cruddy looking image when it's adjusted to lowdest sound.

Well I've still got more ahead to do, but that's where i'm at for now.

Now some pictures!!

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by ZackN920

Wow, I got a pretty damn good looking picture....but IT's UPSIDE DOWN!!!lol Yoke is positioned correctly...do I have the vertical connections on the yoke miswired??

And the horizontal connections.

Reverse the vertical wires, and then independently reverse the horizontal wires. Don't cross connect the vert and horiz. Best do the vertical, then test the set, then assuming success (image will look right side up, but mirror reversed) then do the horiz.

Or rotate the yoke so it becomes "upsidedown".

[Electronic M]

This is important advise for restorers: If a set does not look to have had any hack repairs or work done on it, and a part or parts don't match the schematic GO WITH THE WAY THE SET IS WIRED AND THE PART VALUES IN IT first. Many chassis went through several production changes, not all are documented and there is no way to tell if the schematic is the worse or better version, and that is assuming there are no mistakes in your schematic (I've had mistakes in service literature screw me up a few times now). The only times to make a set match the schematic are in the case of fixing untrustworthy hack-repairman workmanship, and in the case of testing and replacing all parts in a misfunctioning circuit and not curing the issue.....At that point if the schematic shows a different way of making the circuit it is worth a try, BUT make notes of how it was to go back to.....This advice applies to all tube era products IMHO.

[ghjkl67]

Glad to see you got it working (sort of)! Once you get the picture flipped right side up, it looks like you're home free. For your next restoration, take a look at Phil's capacitor replacing page.

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Towards the bottom, it shows how to restuff an electrolytic can. It takes a little more work, but it's a tidy method. I usually cut the old can open with a pipe cutter and dig the guts out. Then, I just use radial lead electrolytics (the smallest diameter available), drill holes at the bottom of the can for the leads, and put the whole can back in.

Sorry I'm a little late getting to the thread.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by ghjkl67

Glad to see you got it working (sort of)! Once you get the picture flipped right side up, it looks like you're home free. For your next restoration, take a look at Phil's capacitor replacing page.

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Towards the bottom, it shows how to restuff an electrolytic can. It takes a little more work, but it's a tidy method. I usually cut the old can open with a pipe cutter and dig the guts out. Then, I just use radial lead electrolytics (the smallest diameter available), drill holes at the bottom of the can for the leads, and put the whole can back in.

Sorry I'm a little late getting to the thread.

On most can caps I've found using a cork screw to remove the old guts (once the can is open or cut off) is a very effective method.

[ZackN920]

Hey guy's. Sorry for dissapearing... been a little busy with other shtuff. Anyway's I got the screen corrected. After I saw wa2ise's post,(on the 30th) I swapped the wires around and the screen looked right. Still have issues to correct, but I decided to play some snes. Nice and stable for the hour, everthing seemed good other than the filiment trans. got real warm. Not hot, but quiet warm. Also had some vertical lines appear on the screen after 10 minutes. Not sharp lines but just 6 or so about an inch apart across the screen that were slightly brighter than the image itself.

Well, I noticed something that I made a mistake with... I had the set running at around 85-90volts... Well when I upped it, (115v) I noticed that the screen got to a better size-actually got a little too big for the 10 inch crt... and the brightness took a dip, like it did before. (started going darker above 90v.) I had to turn that up a little more too look satisfactory. Also noticed the screen geometry issues a little more. T1 (fil.trans.) also now got HOT. Not burning hot but, what I would call hot for a tranformer operating temp.
I haven't touched the set now in a week.

Hey Niko, yea what I did was kind of sloppy. I may still restuff the cans later. I'd rather worry about getting everything good to go, first though.

No pics this time.. that's where its all at.

[ZackN920]

Well, I swapped a few resistors and also replaced 2 caps that looked like Mica's but were rated high in the schematic. No real changes that I noticed. Also noticed that the vertical lines appear now right at start up. I need to get a photo for y'all.

[ZackN920]

Well, i've got this one back in front of me. I ended up putting it back together and out of the way for whatever reason, that im not sure of anymore...Either way, it's been too long.

Anyway's, when I got it back out, I found I have more issues than before. For one, I lost my High Voltage... or at least what is required to get a rastor. I found that a resistor on one of the 1N4007 diode's went open. For now I just took that resistor out of circuit. It's not absolutly necessary right now.

Got HV back, but I have no vertical deflection...Just a horizontal line. That one I can't figure out. I replaced some resistors in the vert circuits, but still have no vertical. Checked a number of other's and cant find any way out or shorted. My tubes are good, and I had it before I put the set away.
Should I swap some of the previously changed caps? I rechecked the vert. transformer and that's still good. What do any of y'all think???

[Phil Nelson]

So, it worked (full raster) when you put it away, and then the vertical collapsed when you brought it out and tried it again?

I'd look for a loose or broken connection somewhere. Have you tried wiggling the tubes? Did you ever clean the tube pins & sockets? Did you clean controls (such as vertical hold)? Is it possible that a blob of solder or a snipped wire stub fell into the wrong place and made a short circuit? Eliminate simple/obvious causes like that before you start chasing more exotic issues.

I would not "shotgun" all of the new caps that you installed. Your TV was mostly working before. It's possible for a new part to fail, but that's far from a common scenario.

I would also put back the resistor that you eliminated. Parts are there for a reason.

If your service manual includes a voltage chart, how about checking the voltages on the vertical tubes? Same deal if the manual has a resistance chart.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[ZackN920]

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

So, it worked (full raster) when you put it away, and then the vertical collapsed when you brought it out and tried it again?

Yup

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

I'd look for a loose or broken connection somewhere. Have you tried wiggling the tubes? Did you ever clean the tube pins & sockets? Did you clean controls (such as vertical hold)? Is it possible that a blob of solder or a snipped wire stub fell into the wrong place and made a short circuit? Eliminate simple/obvious causes like that before you start chasing more exotic issues.

I did all of that previously. No blobs of solder...I'm very careful about that.

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

I would also put back the resistor that you eliminated. Parts are there for a reason.

That resistor was not original to the set, and therefore was not even listed in the schematic. It was one of the resistors I put in when I took the celenium rectifiers out and replaced them with diodes.

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

If your service manual includes a voltage chart, how about checking the voltages on the vertical tubes? Same deal if the manual has a resistance chart.

Still haven't gotten to checking voltages while on, but did check resistances. Did not help at all. Everything was off, making me think my schematic is wrong for the set. I expected to find a few values off, but not everything!

I did find the reason though. There is a shielded wire that runs from the vert out. tube to a lug with some caps on it, and I found that the outer shielding of the wire was shorting to the inner. Seperated the two at the end of the wire and BAM! Full deflection back

[ZackN920]

Had an interesting few weeks...ah, Jury Duty....Part of being an American! Interesting experience, especially with the Federal...

Anyway's, finally got back to this thing. It's working again, and a little better than before! Changed some resistors out when I was searching for the issues (previous to today) that I was having. Also found that this 10BP4 is in much better shape than I thought. Set still has issues....which of coarse, i'd appreciate help with

Well, I explained in the post above, that I got my vert. deflection back. I also solved the previous issue of the set running worse with full voltage, as compared to the 85 volts beforehand. Also readjusted the ion magnet at the end of the crt, because I noticed a shadow on the edge of the pic. Got it adjusted well, and now this thing gets much brighter than It could before, and the set has GREAT contrast with it.

On to the problems I still have. Two things obvious with the image on the screen. During a still shot, there is an obvious, MAJOR wave going on. Like a flag... I also still have that issue with the vertical lines that go down the screen. (I got a few pics that i'll post later.) These lines do disturb the linearity a bit.

On to the other issues that aren't too important, but still odd and could (probably) be made better.
First off, The sound don't match with best pic on this set... It matches with the worst pic. (When it comes to fine tuning.) I tried to get it re-aligned but its a different set up than the other sets that i've had to deal with this situation on.
Second issue, Transformer (T1 on the SAMS schematic) gets HOT after an hour. Hot as in, don't hold it for longer than 15s or it'll burn. I believe this is the filament transformer.
Third issue would be operation of some of the rear controls. Horizontal & Vertical Hold's don't have much range before they lose sync. I've read that some of these earlier Motorola's though, don't have the best of sync.IDK...
I also found that the Horizontal Linearity control is funky too. It acts more like a brightness control that has less range..

Well, that's where I'm at now. I'll get some pics of my vid issues tomorrow.

[ZackN920]

Got the pics now...
Anyone know of a good hosting site that won't bog down my computers? Even my newer laptop get's bogged down by photobucket, and I'm going to be running low on space, if I keep posting them to Videokarma...

[Electronic M]

I switched to flickr once my bucket got full. Seems Flickr has less scripts for adds and junk ware so it should run better....However YMMV depending on the specs, age, and condition of your internet rig.