1961 hand held color tv?

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by etype2

See photo of working 6 inch flat color CRT. http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

Nope, not a picture of a WORKING flat screen set. May be a photo of a flat screen set that worked, but the picture is definitely a paste-up, unless someone can tell me that they had a CRT that could make black areas despite the light coming in. Or was that "view from either side" article a note on a two sided CRT that would need to have the back covered by a black shield to actually use it anywhere but a darkroom?

[etype2]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Nope, not a picture of a WORKING flat screen set. May be a photo of a flat screen set that worked, but the picture is definitely a paste-up, unless someone can tell me that they had a CRT that could make black areas despite the light coming in. Or was that "view from either side" article a note on a two sided CRT that would need to have the back covered by a black shield to actually use it anywhere but a darkroom?

The full article which can be read at post #44 states that the reporter saw working prototypes in action, both color and black & white. The reporter commented that the flesh tones were the best he had seen.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by etype2

The full article which can be read at post #44 states that the reporter saw working prototypes in action, both color and black & white. The reporter commented that the flesh tones were the best he had seen.

These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.


P5010070 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010072 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010114 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010115 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

Finally, 3-color bars on left, 2-color on right:

P5010099 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

[etype2]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.


P5010070 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010072 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010114 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010115 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

Finally, 3-color bars on left, 2-color on right:

P5010099 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

Wow! Thank you for posting these photos.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.

Very cool! thanks for posting. Two color looks better than I expected, but still might have been pretty hard to sell, even in the mid 60s. I looks as if the colors shown are basically "I axis" only, which could have simplified the circuitry somewhat. Was a 2 color system used in some countries, in the "early days" ?

jr

[reeferman]

I've now sold the bridge a total of nine times. Wanna buy it?
Phil

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Very cool! thanks for posting. Two color looks better than I expected, but still might have been pretty hard to sell, even in the mid 60s. I looks as if the colors shown are basically "I axis" only, which could have simplified the circuitry somewhat. Was a 2 color system used in some countries, in the "early days" ?

jr

Two-color TV systems never went into use, although they were proposed. A Mexican inventor proposed a two-color system for Mexico:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/mexican_color.html.

Two color film, however, was used for a while - in one early form of Technicolor; also some two-color cartoons by others than Disney (who had three years of exclusive rights for use of three-color Technicolor in cartoons).

[rca2000]

It seems to have a form of "lollipop tube". PM claimed the set 'was coming soon". But--it took over a DECADE before a B/W lollipop tube was successful even--on the little sony sets!!

Does ANYONE out there know what happened?? did the two-color lollipop tube set prove to be too difficult for "real world" production or use?? Was there some sort of "reliability issue" discovered before production began?? I am SURE that the populace WOULD have embraced a truly portable color set in the late '60's even if the color was not "perfect"--as LONG AS it would "hold up" , not cost too much, be reasonably easy to use, and be "stable". After all--the first and 2nd gen LCD sets--BOTH B/w and color looked like $hit--but still sold somewhat decently in the '80's--enough to keep research to lcd sets today--which look MUCH better--and are MUCH cheaper.

Also--that LCD display that is being held in the RCA pix from 1966--looks to be a B/W display--was that REAL?? The case looked about the size of a SImpson 260 meter, adapted to fit the display. Bu that "test pattern looked--at least from the distance--MUCH better than pix of the B/W LCD sets from the mid 80's!!

Any thoughts??

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by rca2000

...did the two-color lollipop tube set prove to be too difficult for "real world" production or use?? Was there some sort of "reliability issue" discovered before production began?? Any thoughts??

If introduced by a small company, probably just lack of financial mass to keep the company going until it could become profitable. Development and promotion of new technology is seldom so smooth that it doesn't require at least double the time and money originally estimated (or more). A large company that already has income from existing product can support this kind of delay (although it may not choose to do so), but a startup depends on attracting patient (and maybe repeated) investment.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by rca2000

Also--that LCD display that is being held in the RCA pix from 1966--looks to be a B/W display--was that REAL?? The case looked about the size of a SImpson 260 meter, adapted to fit the display. Bu that "test pattern looked--at least from the distance--MUCH better than pix of the B/W LCD sets from the mid 80's!!

Any thoughts??

I know that the test pattern is real. The photo is part of the Sarnoff library. There is a book out by Costallano, one of the original engineers on Hielmeier's team at RCA. Hielmeier discovered 3 electro-optic effects in liquid crystals in 1962 and he put together a team and they worked in secret. That photo was taken in 1966 outside RCA's Princeton labs. They revealed their secret LCD project in May, 1968 to the world and demoed various LCD panels. I have seen photos of that demo. RCA obtained first patents on LCD and unfortunately did nothing with it. We all know what happened next, the Japanese commercialized LCD. The story goes within RCA circles at the time, that they did not want LCD to compete with their CRT division according to Costellano's book.

The subject of this tread was, could a 1961 hand held TV exist. We now know that RCA was still tinkering with it in 1963 at the time Hielmeirs team was developing LCD displays and we know that others were working on flat TV's like the flat two color CRT in 1966. The Popular Science article mentions the engineers name and I did some research on him. I found that he was awarded several patents for 3 and 4 color flat displays. The answer to what happened to this two color prototype may be available by doing a IEEE technical paper search.

Here is a another RCA mock up from 1965. You get the feeling this was for the LCD displays they were developing behind the scene. http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...k-up-1965-525/