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  #16  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:26 PM
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I originally purchased the ClearCast indoor HD television antenna (which should arrive here shortly; I would have received the antenna by now, but a mixup on the address -- the person who took my order neglected to include my apartment number [!] along with the street address of the apartment building -- caused FedEx to return the antenna to the shipper ) to check local reception of Cleveland's DTV channels, but it looks as if I may eventually be using that antenna as my primary source of TV signals. The reason is that, according to Time Warner Cable's web site, the cable operator is still in the process of converting the system to digital -- which may explain why I still get a bunch of NTSC analog channels on my cable. Once the digital conversion is complete, however, those NTSC analog channels will have been moved to one or more digital tiers of service, which means of course they will no longer be watchable on standard cable (read: no more just connecting your cable to the antenna terminals or coax jack on the back of your TV, as VK member RadioTVNut discovered when his cable provider switched to full digital recently). Subscribers will have to rent either a full-size Motorola or Scientific Atlanta cable box or a device known as a DTA (digital transfer adaptor) to view these channels once the conversion is 100 percent complete.

Viewers with standard flat screens will only get their area's local network affiliates; the channel positions for cable stations like CNN, A&E, Animal Planet, et al. will either be blank or your screen will show nothing but snow.

Note that, once your cable company has transitioned to all-digital, you will need either a cable box or a DTA to receive all available channels (other than broadcast channels) on your cable -- even if you have a flat screen. Here's why. Your FS TV's NTSC/ATSC/clear-QAM tuner will not receive most or all channels on digital tiers, almost certainly because these channels will be carried on the cable in QAM format. The broadcast stations will not be affected, as they are already being transmitted digitally in the clear-QAM format.

Time Warner, and most other cable systems in the US, are converting their cable systems to full digital because, as one VK member put it in a recent post, the subscribers want high-definition, so analog must and will disappear from the cable TV landscape -- never to return. We may not like it, but that's progress.

Analog NTSC TV was the standard in North America for over 60 years, but times have changed in the 21st century. If we still want to watch TV we will have to go along with the cable company, or else put up an antenna (with a converter box for knob-tuned TVs) and watch only broadcast stations. In my case, I am not concerned in the least about the fact that Time Warner Cable is transitioning to full digital, or the impact it will have on my TV viewing habits. My two favorite TV channels, Antenna TV and MeTV, are on subchannels of Cleveland's FOX and CBS affiliates, respectively, so if my antenna picks up those two stations -- and if it does, the picture will be perfect on both the network stations and the subchannels, as DTV is all or nothing -- I will be happy.

I have been keeping track of what channels I watch regularly on cable, and found there are a bunch of stations I haven't watched in years -- or at all. I won't miss them when I go back to using an antenna, although I get a feeling that I may have the devil of a time receiving channel eight or 19 with the ClearCast -- if my recent experiments with rebent coat hangers are any indication. I was unable to receive those two stations with the hangers (even a very large rectangular one), and believe me I tried every location in my apartment I could think of, but no luck. I may have better results with the ClearCast antenna, but still I have my doubts. One station I am sure I won't be getting with this antenna is the RTV affiliate, which is located in Canton, Ohio -- seventy-odd miles from here. Channel 19 will be a problem because, according to AntennaWeb.org's findings for my location, good reception of this station at this distance (30+ miles) requires a roof- or tower-mounted antenna with possibly a mast-mounted preamplifier. Since I live in an apartment building, this is definitely not an option for me, so I am hoping against hope that the ClearCast antenna will pull in the station and channel 8, which my makeshift DTV test antennas did not pick up either.

Since the ClearCast has a 60-foot length of coax cable connected to it, I will be able to try it in more locations around my place; maybe (hopefully) there is a spot somewhere where both CBS 19 and FOX 8 will come in as well as every other station my test antennas received. I will post the results of my tests with the ClearCast antenna as soon as I know for certain what stations I can and cannot get here; maybe, since the ClearCast antenna is built better (I hope) than were my cobbled-together test antennas (which were connected to only the center pin of a very short length of coax by a length of zip cord), I will find a spot where the CC antenna will get even more stations, since I live near Lake Erie. Who knows -- perhaps this summer I may get some Detroit stations and perhaps a Canadian station or two. I am located roughly one mile from the south shore of Lake Erie, with southwestern Ontario just a hop, skip and a jump across the lake, so I may have quite a few (well, a few, anyway) Canadian DTV stations coming in when the weather cooperates. We shall see.

I am not, however, expecting miraculous results from the ClearCast (i. e. reception of stations 100+ miles distant); if the antenna brings in the Cleveland network stations and their subchannels, that will be plenty good enough for me.


Stay tuned. More to come.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:36 PM
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DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
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One antenna configuration I highly recommend is a 4-bay bowtie. Its nothing new and one can be built using 1"x2" screen or chicken wire. This is an old UHF design and measures about 20" wide, 30" high and 6" deep. It fits in a closet real well and it has a reasonable gain on highband VHF despite its smaller wavelength dimensions. It beats most of the other stuff I have tried, especially rabbit ear-loop combos, by a long shot. Outside, its excellent.

I have seen the Clearcast unit advertised in the paper here also and my first thought is how it is "electrically small" for our VHF channels 8 and 10, with half wavelengths of about 31 and 29 inches respectively.

If you don't have any metal (like refrigerators) in your signal path, a closet is the only way to hide it. Second, if you do not have any obscenely powerful FM stations nearby, one of those 10dB "silver box" boosters from the hardware store may make the difference between getting a steady reliable signal. Connect close to the antenna with a 30" piece of coax from the matching transofrmer and you could run about 50 feet of coax to the TV.

BTW, RTV has been running paid programming in the early AM and may be on the way out. MeTV, This and Antenna TV seem to be getting some fun shows, at least when I'm able to watch.

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 03-24-2012 at 07:12 PM. Reason: redundancy and irrelevance
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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In Philadelphia, most of its suburbs and the far fringes west to the Appalachians, Comcast has bought all the local cable operators and converted their systems to digital. All customers must use the Motorola digital transfer adaptors and universal remotes, programmed to switch thier TVs for power and volume.

Yes Jeff, also here, For the "basic service" channels, a QAM tuner (standard on newer FPs) will still work.

I use a Toshiba DVD recorder with built-in ATSC tuner. No cable and I rarely record anything off the air. I do have Comcast though, for my internet and its pretty fast at 24MBPS typically. The local Telco (Verizon) has no FIOS here, since its rural, not likely to see it anytime soon.
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  #19  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:00 PM
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Reece Reece is offline
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One of many articles on the subject:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/
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  #20  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:45 PM
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Jeffhs Jeffhs is offline
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Clear Cast HDTV antenna tests -- update

Greetings.


I received my new ClearCast HDTV antenna the other day. I was able to receive a few stations but, unfortunately, the two channels I was hoping to receive (Cleveland channels 8 and 19, the subchannels of which are 8.2, Antenna TV and 19.2, MeTV respectively) did not show up on my flat screen in several channel scans. Here is a list, however, of the channels I do receive with the Clear Cast at my location 30+ miles east of Cleveland, near Lake Erie:

1a WKYC, NBC, Cleveland ch. 3.1
1b WKYC Weather Radar
2a WEWS,ABC, Cleveland ch. 5.1
2b LiveWell Network..........ch. 5.2
3a WVIZ, PBS, Cleveland....ch. 25.1
3b WVIZ Ohio channel, ch. 25.2
3c WVIZ World, channel 25.3
3d WVIZ Create, channel 25.4
4 WBNX, Akron-Cleveland, ch. 55.1
5 CSCN, audio only, channel 38.9

I receive several other channels besides those listed, but the other channels are duplicates of the listed stations (and WBNX's standard-definition and This-TV subchannels); I don't know why the ClearCast picked up the local stations twice.

I do not know what the CSCN channel is supposed to be, as I did not listen to it very long; however, I suspect it may be an LPTV (low power TV) station since it carries audio only, perhaps from a local FM station, such as are found in the Chicago and New York City areas. These cities have LPTVs on channel 6 (as I learned from reading posts by VK members living in those areas) which can still be received via an antenna, but for how much longer is anyone's guess.

I tried the ClearCast antenna at many different spots around my apartment (as many as the length of the supplied antenna coax [about 15-20 feet] would allow me to get to) but, try as I might and did, I could not receive channels 8 or 19 at all -- not even a pixelated image.

I don't know whether these two channels (eight and 19) are in locations that just do not allow the signals to reach this far east of town without a real outdoor antenna or what the problem is, so I went back to cable and stored the Clear Cast antenna -- for now, anyway.

Do not waste your money on the Clear Cast antenna, as it is little more than a repackaged version of the old UHF bow-tie indoor TV antennas that used to come with new televisions 40+ years ago (and were available from Radio Shack, et al.), long before DTV -- and the CC antenna works just about as well as those bowtie aerials did, which wasn't very well in anything other than strong to moderate television signal areas. The Clear Cast does receive UHF DTV stations well, but if the DTV channels in your area are still on VHF channel positions (as are 8 and 19 in my area), it will not work well since the CC is not designed to receive VHF channel frequencies. WOIO-DT is a translator station for Cleveland CBS affiliate WOIO, but unfortunately the translator, on channel 24, is in the Akron, Ohio area (it is meant to cover that area until WOIO's antenna work and power increase are complete) and does not reach here.

My best advice is to get your indoor DTV antenna (if you decide to use one instead of a rooftop antenna) from Best Buy, Radio Shack, et al., as the DTV antennas these stores carry are better and much cheaper than the ClearCast; the CC antenna costs $38 plus shipping (for whatever reason, mine cost almost $60 with these charges included) if purchased directly from its manufacturer, Brilliant Built Technologies of Canton, Ohio, 70 miles southwest of Cleveland.
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 03-30-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:27 PM
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Too bad it did not work out for you Thanks for the report! Can you get your money back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I receive several other channels besides those listed, but the other channels are duplicates of the listed stations (and WBNX's standard-definition and This-TV subchannels); I don't know why the ClearCast picked up the local stations twice.
In weak signal conditions, an ATSC tuner will often receive a station but not get enough information during the scan to determine the virtual channel number, so it will show up as the actual transmitted channel. On another scan, you may have had a better signal, and the tuner read the virtual channel number correctly. Both will show up in numerical order on your channel list, although they are the same station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I do not know what the CSCN channel is supposed to be, as I did not listen to it very long;
Still checking on this.... "Audio Only" condition may be the result of weak signal conditions.... Canadian station?

EDIT ADD, Figured it out: Very likely the ch 38 is W38ET-D in Eastlake:
http://maps.google.com/?q=http://tra...26state=OH.kml
W38ET-D is a translator for WVIZ... WVIZ ch 25.9 is the Cleveland Sight Center Network (CSCN) . Whew! that took a bit of detective work!

jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 03-31-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: add comment
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:03 PM
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Jeffhs Jeffhs is offline
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jr_tech:

Thanks much for researching this issue. Your explanation of why I was getting two exact copies of my channel scan list on my flat screen when running the channel scan makes sense. This does not happen on cable.

Now "CSCN" makes sense to me as well. The channel is audio only for the use of visually-impaired or blind persons. This sounds a lot like the radio reading services I see listed on www.RadioStationWorld.com in some cities (I believe Cleveland may have such a station as well), the stations operating around 88 MHz. I am thinking perhaps, even likely, PBS affiliates across the US now have these audio-only channels, available to OTA viewers but not yet to cable subscribers.


I did not know, however (until now), that WVIZ operated such a channel, although I do know (and have known for some time) that the station does operate a small network of translator stations, most of which are located in far-suburban or fringe areas that WVIZ's main OTA signal does not reach -- very well or at all.

In this age of digital TV and its often weak signals in far-suburban areas, these translators serve those areas in which folks still get their TV reception via antennas. WVIZ has one such translator in the city of Ashtabula, Ohio, 50 miles from Cleveland and very near the Pennsylvania border near Lake Erie, as well as a translator in Sheffield Lake, Ohio, a far-western Cleveland suburb. There used to be a translator for the city of Chagrin Falls, Ohio (a far-eastern Cleveland suburban area), but it was taken off the air when WBNX-TV signed on in 1985. The problem was that WBNX operates on the same channel as did the WVIZ translator for Chagrin Falls, so the latter had no choice but to go dark. Whether or not it ever returned to the air on another channel, I don't know.

WBNX has three DTV subchannels: 55.1 is the main one (WBNX CW--the CW television network), 55.2 is WBNX-SD (standard definition), and 55.3 is This-TV. The third subchannel was added as a direct result of the affiliation contract of WUAB in suburban Lorain, Ohio having expired and the station did not renew it--in time or due to financial issues. This-TV was then supposedly moved to WBNX's subchannel 55.3, but the cable system in my area doesn't yet carry that subchannel or 55.2, and I'm not sure (don't know, if the truth be known) if or when these subchannels will be added to our channel lineup here.

I could get a refund on my Clear Cast antenna (the procedure to do so is outlined in a form letter sent along with the antenna), but I think I'll keep it, as I intend to do more experimenting. However, these experiments will not be very frequent, as every time I switch from cable to the CC antenna or vice-versa, I have to rescan the TV and redo the channel labels at the same time. For whatever reason, my area's cable system doesn't label the cable channels on TVs so equipped; labels appear on my set (in a small blue box at the upper right corner of the screen), for example, for only the major network affiliates. Since my cable carries some 50 channels (analog and digital), relabeling the cable channels, while not difficult by any means, takes quite a bit of time, as the channel labels must be entered one letter at a time for every station received.

I suppose, however, that I shouldn't complain, as my area's cable has only 50 channels; if I lived in either the metro New York or Los Angeles area, however, I'd have to spend perhaps an hour or more labeling all the channels those cities' cable systems likely carry, since both cities have seven VHF channels and probably many UHF stations as well. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the cable systems in those cities carry well over one hundred channels on their standard service tier alone.
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 04-01-2012 at 12:07 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-31-2012, 04:57 PM
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DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
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I just helped a friend nearby that bought an indoor, non-amplified antenna. It is a Terk HDTVA/HDTVI that has a UHF Yagi section like the Zenith "silver sensor" and telescoping rabbit ears for the VHF.

On the second floor, it pulled in half the channels that are really available, but really well. I put a "frankentenna"** in the attic after finding the ONE spot it worked and got the four missing channels (on 3 stations) PBS MeTV CBS and MY without an amplifier.

**I had the front part (UHF section bowtie with corner reflector) from a roof antenna that I shortened elements in attempt peak the VHF performance. This worked on a CM3679, but it was worse on this vintage RCA (green anodized elements) because the longest elements tuned at 1/2 wave for channels 2-6 actually do double duty as they are also 3/2 wavelength for channels 8-12. Clipping them to highband half wavelengths worsened performance so I cut off the VHF section, as it was a failed experiment.

Last edited by DavGoodlin; 04-04-2012 at 02:00 PM. Reason: add info
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:38 PM
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ChrisW6ATV ChrisW6ATV is offline
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My brother called me this morning from Chicago and described a laughable full-page newspaper ad for this silly antenna. Apparently, the ad mentions things like "able to receive 953 programs even in rural areas" or similar ridiculous comments. Note the word PROGRAMS. Well, gee, even ONE channel will show 953 programs if you watch it long enough! In the small print it says "up to 56 CHANNELS in metropolitan areas. That would be about the number I get with my pair of 50-year old $2 rabbit ears.

Then, the ad went on with something like "only available to the following Chicago-area ZIP codes" and proceeded to list ALL of the codes in the whole area. That bunch of garbage must be intended to fool people into thinking these things are in "limited supply" or something. Even though the ad also claims this over-priced antenna was designed by someone who worked for NASA and/or other big-name technology places, it should be obvious that having a Ph.D. does not preclude someone from becoming, or working with, a shameless huckster.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:05 PM
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Gimmickry never goes out of style

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV View Post
Even though the ad also claims this over-priced antenna was designed by someone who worked for NASA and/or other big-name technology places, it should be obvious that having a Ph.D. does not preclude someone from becoming, or working with, a shameless huckster.
This was similar to those little gray things that simply plugged in, had feet of ribbon twinlead and claimed to use you houses wiring as a big antenna - HA, it was a small ceramic disc capacitor connected to one of the plug blades, the other was a plastic dummy.

Then there are the little dish-shaped UHF antennas with rabbit ears sold at "dollar stores" in the 90's
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:34 AM
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ChrisW6ATV ChrisW6ATV is offline
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Yep, I remember the "whole-house antenna". $5 in 1970s dollars for a plug, a piece of twin-lead, and a disc capacitor, huh?
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  #27  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:19 AM
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Indoor HDTV reception is an intreating experiment depending on the construction of your house... I live in an 1891 converted 1 room school house, it was converted in the 1940's when the plater was put up the "lath" that was used was closely spaced metal like thick heavy chicken wire, well that makes the house basically a faraday cage and with "rabbit ears" I can barely get WKBN HD who's tower I can see out the window..... So I decided to use the big VHF/UHF RS antenna I had in the attic, aimed that one approx 1/2 between Pittsburgh and Stubenville and bought a UHF only and aimed it 1/2 between Youngstown and Salem. With a hybrid splitter/combiner and a couple of inline amplifiers I get the following channels:

KDKA DT 2.1 no sub channels full time 1080i
WTOV DT 9.1 NBC 1080i
WTOV DT 9.2 METV/local 480i
WPXI DT 11.1 NBC 1080i
WPXI DT 11.2 METV 480i
WQED DT 13.1 PBS 1080i
WQED DT 13.2 "Create TV" 480i
WQED DT 13.3 "The Neighborhood channel" 480i
WQED DT 13.4 "DTV Programming" 480i no program guide or channel ID
WPCW DT 19.1 Pittsburgh CW 1080i
WYFX-LD 19.1 FOX 720P
WFMJ DT 21.1 NBC 1080i
WBCB 21.2 CW 480i
WKBN 27.1 CBS 1080i
WYFX 27.2 FOX 480i
WYTV 33.1 ABC 720p
WYTV 33.2 METV 480i
WYTV 33.3 "weather" 480i
WNEO 45.1 PBS 720p
WNEO 45.2 "Fusion" 480i (some of the worst compression i have seen)
WNEO 45.3 "international programming" 480i
WNEO 45.4 V-ME 480i
WPGH 53.1 FOX 720p
WPGH 53.2 "Country Music TV" 480i

Depending on the set we are watching on we also may get 2.1-23.3 the local ION channels from Elyria.

I am in new Middletown which is about 8 miles south of Youngstown Ohio.

Matt
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  #28  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatoray View Post
Indoor HDTV reception is an intreating experiment depending on the construction of your house... I live in an 1891 converted 1 room school house, it was converted in the 1940's when the plater was put up the "lath" that was used was closely spaced metal like thick heavy chicken wire, well that makes the house basically a faraday cage and with "rabbit ears" I can barely get WKBN HD who's tower I can see out the window..... So I decided to use the big VHF/UHF RS antenna I had in the attic, aimed that one approx 1/2 between Pittsburgh and Stubenville and bought a UHF only and aimed it 1/2 between Youngstown and Salem. With a hybrid splitter/combiner and a couple of inline amplifiers I get the following channels:

KDKA DT 2.1 no sub channels full time 1080i
WTOV DT 9.1 NBC 1080i
WTOV DT 9.2 METV/local 480i
WPXI DT 11.1 NBC 1080i
WPXI DT 11.2 METV 480i
WQED DT 13.1 PBS 1080i
WQED DT 13.2 "Create TV" 480i
WQED DT 13.3 "The Neighborhood channel" 480i
WQED DT 13.4 "DTV Programming" 480i no program guide or channel ID
WPCW DT 19.1 Pittsburgh CW 1080i
WYFX-LD 19.1 FOX 720P
WFMJ DT 21.1 NBC 1080i
WBCB 21.2 CW 480i
WKBN 27.1 CBS 1080i
WYFX 27.2 FOX 480i
WYTV 33.1 ABC 720p
WYTV 33.2 METV 480i
WYTV 33.3 "weather" 480i
WNEO 45.1 PBS 720p
WNEO 45.2 "Fusion" 480i (some of the worst compression i have seen)
WNEO 45.3 "international programming" 480i
WNEO 45.4 V-ME 480i
WPGH 53.1 FOX 720p
WPGH 53.2 "Country Music TV" 480i

Depending on the set we are watching on we also may get 2.1-23.3 the local ION channels from Elyria.

I am in new Middletown which is about 8 miles south of Youngstown Ohio.

Matt
That is a great setup!!

Our metal roof makes it hard to get good results, so the Winegard VHF & Channel Master UHF yagi need to be lashed to the chimney.
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2012, 03:34 PM
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Clearcast not good for VHF

Anyone who has bought an indoor antenna touted as "digital" will find one or two missing channels like Cleveland's WOIO 10 and WJW 8 (BTW we also have channels 8 & 10 in S. Central PA) Due to compromised design for VHF-Hi.

I have found that a custom-dimensioned home-made VHF yagi gets'er done!
20120406162655835.pdf
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post
I have found that a custom-dimensioned home-made VHF yagi gets'er done!
Attachment 173914
Is this a general purpose Hi-Band Yagi (for 7 to 13), or is there some data missing from the table for adjustment of the element lengths/spacings for the individual channels listed?

Also puzzled by the term virtual used in the table, since the frequencies appear to correlate to real OTA channels.

jr
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