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  #16  
Old 01-24-2019, 07:11 PM
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Hawkwind Hawkwind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
I figured it would be a luxury car, but I'm amazed it was that early... I kinda wondered if Packard had lasted long enough to offer automatics.
I'm sure they went the route that Studebaker did. Sourced their transmissions from Borg-Warner or some similar named company.

Packard: Ultramatic

Studebaker: Flight-O-Matic

First car in high school was a 1966 Studebaker Cruiser with auto. Shift quadrant was, PNDLR.

The dealer was still in business and the head mechanic told me they were "Ford" transmissions...
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:06 PM
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Model T Fords had a sort of type of automatic. Well, not really-you'd step on one pedal, the tin Lizzie would be in "Low", stomp on the other pedal, you'd get a mournful howl from the tranny that would tell you that you were in high, & was good all the way up to a heady 50 MPH or so. The tranny operated w/bands, they were ALWAYS worn out, even from virtually brand-new, to equalize wear, a T driver became a virtuoso in driving backwards. A T tranny had a very rudimentary sort-of version of a modern planetary auto gear box, the 1927 Model A used a "Modern 3 speed" sliding gear box that is basically similar to what is used today on many vehicles. Everything old is New again...
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:55 AM
Colly0410 Colly0410 is offline
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There's only my friend Roy, my Wife's friend Sue & myself who have an auto, everyone else I know has a manual shift. Automatics are quite rare here in England & some cars don't have an option of an auto box. I've had an auto since 2010 & won't go back to a manual, I love it when I'm in stop/start traffic not having to keep pressing a clutch every few seconds, my left leg would be aching when I came home from work, not any more though...
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Colly0410 View Post
There's only my friend Roy, my Wife's friend Sue & myself who have an auto, everyone else I know has a manual shift. Automatics are quite rare here in England & some cars don't have an option of an auto box. I've had an auto since 2010 & won't go back to a manual, I love it when I'm in stop/start traffic not having to keep pressing a clutch every few seconds, my left leg would be aching when I came home from work, not any more though...
It is the opposite here in the states...The last manual in the family was gone before my parents married (maybe even before they met). It wasn't till after college that I knew anyone with a manual or even sat in a car with one.

We Muricans love our automatics. Heck, we're lazy enough that it is hard to find a car without a cruise control...And a friend swears by and was trying to sell me on Chevys adaptive cruise control...Though I don't do enough regular highway driving for the adaptive feature to make a difference.
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:29 PM
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Mostly automatics here in Canada too, but I don't care for them at all. It stands to reason though, most of those drivers need to keep a hand free for texting.

Big rig truck drivers who insist on an automatic, a.k.a. a steering wheel holders, shouldn't be driving trucks at all in my opinion. Truckers worth their salt probably get to the point where using a clutch all day doesn't bother their left leg at all. Use it or lose it I say.

That's about as macho as I ever get, take it or leave it.
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  #21  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkwind View Post
....First car in high school was a 1966 Studebaker Cruiser with auto. Shift quadrant was, PNDLR.....
I had a 1961 Cadillac that had PNDLR and then a 1964 that had the normal PRNDL , so for Cadillac the changeover must have been 1962 or 1963 . the 61 had what they called a "Dual Coupling Hydramatic" whereas the 64 had the "Turbo Hydramatic 400" .
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:55 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Mostly automatics here in Canada too, but I don't care for them at all. It stands to reason though, most of those drivers need to keep a hand free for texting.

Big rig truck drivers who insist on an automatic, a.k.a. a steering wheel holders, shouldn't be driving trucks at all in my opinion. Truckers worth their salt probably get to the point where using a clutch all day doesn't bother their left leg at all. Use it or lose it I say.

That's about as macho as I ever get, take it or leave it.
When I bought my first car 55 years ago, I couldn't afford the extra money that an auto transmission cost. The first 7 years of driving, was nothing but manual. When I did get an automatic, driving it, I thought, this is pretty nice, especially in heavy city traffic.
When I bought my 2006 Jeep Wrangler, I thought it should be a manual like the original Jeep.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2019, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
When I bought my first car 55 years ago, I couldn't afford the extra money that an auto transmission cost. The first 7 years of driving, was nothing but manual. When I did get an automatic, driving it, I thought, this is pretty nice, especially in heavy city traffic.
When I bought my 2006 Jeep Wrangler, I thought it should be a manual like the original Jeep.
There's the main benefit of an automatic, getting through gridlocks with ease. The road network where I am is known to be poorly designed, so there are more here than in real cities. I've heard of bus drivers saying that's why they can't keep on schedule.

I know a fellow with two Smart ForTwos with the automated manual, something I hadn't even heard of until I actually rode in one of them a few weeks ago. He goes through the gears manually, and I can feel the rumble from the electric clutch engaging. The system is fairly interesting although still not my bag of toys. The one he's using now, I think he just uses it when the other is is awaiting significant repairs.
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  #24  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:25 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Originally Posted by Colly0410 View Post
There's only my friend Roy, my Wife's friend Sue & myself who have an auto, everyone else I know has a manual shift. Automatics are quite rare here in England & some cars don't have an option of an auto box. I've had an auto since 2010 & won't go back to a manual, I love it when I'm in stop/start traffic not having to keep pressing a clutch every few seconds, my left leg would be aching when I came home from work, not any more though...
Is the shift pattern reversed on the manual gear boxes? I know you have to shift with your left hand. I would imagine first and second would be closest to the driver. Also, how many speeds are the manuals.
Dave.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:31 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon A. View Post
There's the main benefit of an automatic, getting through gridlocks with ease. The road network where I am is known to be poorly designed, so there are more here than in real cities. I've heard of bus drivers saying that's why they can't keep on schedule.

I know a fellow with two Smart ForTwos with the automated manual, something I hadn't even heard of until I actually rode in one of them a few weeks ago. He goes through the gears manually, and I can feel the rumble from the electric clutch engaging. The system is fairly interesting although still not my bag of toys. The one he's using now, I think he just uses it when the other is is awaiting significant repairs.
I guess you have to own two of them, one to drive and one to repair.
My 2017 Jeep Compass has a transmission similar to that, but I just drive it as an automatic.
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  #26  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:47 PM
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Packard developing their own automatic was considered quite a feat at the time, as even mighty Generous Motors hadn't come out w/Hydramatic til '38,& I think they were kinda troublesome til the late '40s-early '50s. Ford introduced their semi-auto, Liquamatic Drive, in '41, but only in Mercurys & Lincolns. It was so awful that it did not make it past '42, & IIRC, most were replaced w/std 3/4 speeds. It is not known if any survived to the present day. Ford swallowed their pride & bought Hydramatics from GM til their own auto boxes came out in '51. Automatics, power steering, power brakes, it all came together in the early Fifties. No longer did you have to be an exceptionally big, strong man to drive a car. Any 5' 2" mother of3 squalling brats could wheel a big station wagon full of said squalling brats, plus several puppies, & do her daily chores-Including taking the pups to the vet's to get their shots, as well as the biggest, burliest man could. Of course now, even inferring that a woman is in any way can't do anything any man can do will likely start a pretty decent cuss fight, but 1949 America was a bit different.Lots of older women when I was a kid didn't drive, they didn't want to, or they were scared of cars, or somesuch. Neither one of my grannies drove, one never had & the other stopped when she moved in w/us when I was born.
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  #27  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:21 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Originally Posted by Sandy G View Post
Packard developing their own automatic was considered quite a feat at the time, as even mighty Generous Motors hadn't come out w/Hydramatic til '38,& I think they were kinda troublesome til the late '40s-early '50s. Ford introduced their semi-auto, Liquamatic Drive, in '41, but only in Mercurys & Lincolns. It was so awful that it did not make it past '42, & IIRC, most were replaced w/std 3/4 speeds. It is not known if any survived to the present day. Ford swallowed their pride & bought Hydramatics from GM til their own auto boxes came out in '51. Automatics, power steering, power brakes, it all came together in the early Fifties. No longer did you have to be an exceptionally big, strong man to drive a car. Any 5' 2" mother of3 squalling brats could wheel a big station wagon full of said squalling brats, plus several puppies, & do her daily chores-Including taking the pups to the vet's to get their shots, as well as the biggest, burliest man could. Of course now, even inferring that a woman is in any way can't do anything any man can do will likely start a pretty decent cuss fight, but 1949 America was a bit different.Lots of older women when I was a kid didn't drive, they didn't want to, or they were scared of cars, or somesuch. Neither one of my grannies drove, one never had & the other stopped when she moved in w/us when I was born.
My uncle bought a brand-new '40 Oldsmobile with the Hydramatic. The transmission failed about two years later. It was during the war and parts were unavailable. They dealer had to convert it back to a manual so it could be driven. Naturally he was really POed.
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:43 PM
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Somewhere in the back of my feeble little mind, I seem to recall that the same man held patents on both Hydramatic & Chrysler's Torqueflite, which came out postwar, IIRC.Having the benefit of a bit more development, Torqueflite avoided Hydramatic's early teething troubles, & even Uncle Tom McCahill called Torqueflite the best tranny in the business. Read Uncle Tom RELIGIOUSLY when a budding Idiot Savant back in grade school- Learnt a LOT from him. Almost every one of his articles were loaded w/amazing nuggets of info that you couldn't readily find elsewhere & he had a very fresh witty writing style that a lot of today's scribes would do well to emulate. And I take back the "Idiot Savant" quip-Welll, the "Savant" part, anhoo.... The "Idiot" part ? Well, as most of you lot can attest to-There's NO DOUBT whatsoever about THAT...In no way, shape, or form...
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2019, 10:23 AM
nasadowsk nasadowsk is offline
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IIRC, what killed the original Hydramatic was the fact that there was one shift in it, I think 2-3, that had to actuate and release a whole bunch of clutches and stuff with the correct timing, and it was tricky for them to do. The Torqueflite and later stuff were 3 speeds, where every gear change was just a clutch or a band or two.

A lot of companies did weird stuff back then with automatics, probably to get around patents.

The common until now PRNDL was mandated by the feds with pushing from Nader, who seemed to think PNDLR was the source of all the world's problems (and console shifters - he wanted a ban on them, IIRC from his book). If course, I'm sure if the US auto industry at the time was already PRNDL, he'd have argued against it for something else.

Of course now that he crawled into whatever hole he came out of, cars have all sorts of bizzare shifters that 1/2 the world can't figure out...
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  #30  
Old 02-05-2019, 12:37 PM
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I THNK the Hydramatic was always a 3 speed, but the Powerglide & Fordamatic, which both appeared in '51 were 2 speed boxes. They were supposedly simplified designs to be cheaper to produce, being they went into GM & Fords' cheapest cars, but they were inefficient as hell. Gm upped the Chevy's displacement from 216 cubic inches to 235 to give the Powerslide a little more horsepower so turtles were less likely to run away & hide from it. My parents had a '51 Chevy w/a Powerglide in it, my mom learned to drive in it. She couldn't-Or WOULDN'T learn to work a manual, they could afford little else than a Chevy. My dad told me it took til next year for it to make it to 60 MPH. You'd stomp on it, grow a beard waiting for it to hit 55 or so, it would go "BANG !!", shift into high, & then you'd eventually top out 70-75 or so. Cars-Even the legendary Ford V-8s were rather feeble appliances, at least til '55, when Chevy's equally legendary V-8 appeared. But you really didn't see the pavement-rippers until later on in the latter half of the Fifties.
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