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  #31  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy G View Post
I THINK the Hydramatic was always a 3 speed.....
In my long ago recollection I think I remember the "Dual Coupling Hydramatic" in my 61 Caddy as having been a four speed . I don't know how they did it , but I seem to recall the "Dual Coupling" referring to a second small torque converter type device behind the regular torque converter , and that may have had something to do with an extra ratio .

Edited to add ; Wikki identifies this as the "Controlled Coupling Hydramatic" and confirms it to be a four speed . I'm almost certain , however , that the car's owner's manual identified it as a "Dual Coupling Hydramatic" , I'm not sure which is correct except that I remember having 4 speeds in my 61 and only 3 speeds in my 64 , and felt the 4 speed better suited a car of that size (nice low first gear to get it moving quickly) .

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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
I had a 1961 Cadillac that had PNDLR and then a 1964 that had the normal PRNDL , so for Cadillac the changeover must have been 1962 or 1963 . the 61 had what they called a "Dual Coupling Hydramatic" whereas the 64 had the "Turbo Hydramatic 400" .

Last edited by init4fun; 02-05-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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  #32  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:57 PM
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GM completely re-did their "Big-Car" lines in '65. In '64, they had hydramatic in the Sixty-Two series Cads & TURBO-hydramatic in all the others. In '65, ALL the Cads had turbo-hydramatic, a new perimeter frame, a swanky new body that had all the interior dimensions increased, especially the front legroom/floor area, curved side windows, & Cad FINALLY got rid of its fins, but by '64, they were mere shadows of their former selves. My granddad had a tan '60 Sedan DeVille, it had the OMG fins, the compound curved windshield, I think "Dagmar" bumpers, it was quite literally a one-car parade cruising down the street. We were out in it once during a hailstorm, I just KNEW it was gonna bust that wacky windscreen, but, it didn't. He traded it on a '68 Sedan DeV, it was that extremely fugly color they only had THAT year-kinda gold, kinda green, kinda brown. Inside & out. The best name for it was "Babyshit Brown", that was pretty close to the most apt description anybody could think of. It looked like an overgrown Chevy Biscayne, no chrome, no sex, no nothing. I was very disappointed in that car-it was really the polar opposite of the zany '60 model.
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  #33  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:58 PM
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Interesting. I always thought the Hydramatic was 4-speed.

According to the following there was a three speed version later:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Rot...c_transmission

"Roto Hydramatic (sometimes spelled Roto Hydra-Matic or Roto-Hydramatic) was an automatic transmission built by General Motors and used on some Oldsmobile and Pontiac and Holden models from 1961–1965. It was based on the earlier, four-speed Hydramatic, but was more compact, providing only three forward speeds."
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  #34  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:21 PM
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The Hydramatic transmission was a joint effort between engineering at Olds, and engineering at Cadillac. All early Hydramatic transmissions were four speed, with two sets of gear ratios manufactured: one for cars, and one for GMC and Chevrolet trucks.
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  #35  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
I guess you have to own two of them, one to drive and one to repair.
Nailed it. He does all the work on his family's cars and likes the Smart at least partly because it's a really cheap way to get from A to B. He fixed up a 2006 Mercedes-Benz C230 sport coupe for his daughter to use, but she decided it was too fancy for her liking so he sold it for just enough to break even. Fair enough, a car like that would make the wrong kind of statement for me as well. I'll stick with old and rather obscure.
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  #36  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:29 PM
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Having driven both pre- and post-war Olds with the Hydramatic, I will say the 1-2 gear shift can be rough, and occurs a bit earlier than one would expect from say a modern transmission. It does drive and feel more like a 3 speed; one gets the impression that the first gear is there solely to get the damn thing to start coasting forward. Remember, these cars were HEAVY!
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  #37  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:58 PM
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Nailed it. He does all the work on his family's cars and likes the Smart at least partly because it's a really cheap way to get from A to B. He fixed up a 2006 Mercedes-Benz C230 sport coupe for his daughter to use, but she decided it was too fancy for her liking so he sold it for just enough to break even. Fair enough, a car like that would make the wrong kind of statement for me as well. I'll stick with old and rather obscure.
This car talk can really get crazy!
I went to a garage sale several years ago and some stuck up looking broad stopped as well, driving one of those death-traps, a so-called Smart Car. I was driving my old Toyota Prius. I remarked the my car gets at least 5 MPG more than that thing you're driving and it has a little more room in it, plus it's safer.
Naturally the bimbo mentioned the costly batteries.
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  #38  
Old 02-05-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
This car talk can really get crazy!
I went to a garage sale several years ago and some stuck up looking broad stopped as well, driving one of those death-traps, a so-called Smart Car. I was driving my old Toyota Prius. I remarked the my car gets at least 5 MPG more than that thing you're driving and it has a little more room in it, plus it's safer.
Naturally the bimbo mentioned the costly batteries.
They'd have a hard time selling me on one of those "smart" deathtraps as a golf cart let alone as a car.

A year or two back I remember this commercial where they tried to show the strength of the bodyshell by balancing a Suburban on top of its roof...As an engineer, I thought "okay you've shown me your ad agency is good at deceiving dumb people. Now show me what that soda can does under REAL crash conditions" There have been various cases of people balancing cars as heavy as a suburban on four chicken eggs...Just because it can take a static load don't mean it is worth a damn in an impact at highway speeds. A real demo would have been to park it nose against a concrete wall and ram a Suburban or a semi truck into it at at least 50MPH and show that the passenger compartment is fully intact...Though I'd reckon it probably takes that impact like a chicken egg (SPLAT!).
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  #39  
Old 02-06-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
This car talk can really get crazy!
I went to a garage sale several years ago and some stuck up looking broad stopped as well, driving one of those death-traps, a so-called Smart Car. I was driving my old Toyota Prius. I remarked the my car gets at least 5 MPG more than that thing you're driving and it has a little more room in it, plus it's safer.
Naturally the bimbo mentioned the costly batteries.
I say a lot of things I think could be considered crazy, I just roll with it.

This makes me think of how the Ford/Chevy/Dodge 4X4 guys are always taking cheap shots at one another. They could debate the strengths and weaknesses of each indefinitely, and/or use compromising photos of the object of their derision as the basis for Pinterest memes.
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Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
They'd have a hard time selling me on one of those "smart" deathtraps as a golf cart let alone as a car.

A year or two back I remember this commercial where they tried to show the strength of the bodyshell by balancing a Suburban on top of its roof...As an engineer, I thought "okay you've shown me your ad agency is good at deceiving dumb people. Now show me what that soda can does under REAL crash conditions" There have been various cases of people balancing cars as heavy as a suburban on four chicken eggs...Just because it can take a static load don't mean it is worth a damn in an impact at highway speeds. A real demo would have been to park it nose against a concrete wall and ram a Suburban or a semi truck into it at at least 50MPH and show that the passenger compartment is fully intact...Though I'd reckon it probably takes that impact like a chicken egg (SPLAT!).
Considering that I'm not a Smart enthusiast but I know a few things about them, I can take an objective stance on this.

I used to think a crash would easily turn one of those things into an Origami sculpture, but then I found out about the cage around the passenger compartment. There is a video of one slamming into a concrete barrier at 70MPH; the passenger compartment help up fairly well, save for the big hole in the driver's side footwell. The doors still opened, the damage hindering movement of the driver's door somewhat but the the other door was not affected.

I don't think any vehicle or its passengers would survive getting sandwiched by a semi moving at a good clip. Many moons ago I heard a story of a similar accident involving a 1971 Mercury Montego. If I'm not mistaken a drunk in a 5-tonne truck pushed the Merc into the wall of a bar, caving in the wall as well. The owner had recently done a bunch of bodywork on it in preparation for paint. That was in 1978 according to a photo I saw of the wreckage.
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  #40  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon A. View Post
I say a lot of things I think could be considered crazy, I just roll with it.

This makes me think of how the Ford/Chevy/Dodge 4X4 guys are always taking cheap shots at one another. They could debate the strengths and weaknesses of each indefinitely, and/or use compromising photos of the object of their derision as the basis for Pinterest memes.


.
I stopped at a friend's place where he was prepping the ground for concrete.
He borrowed a large ground tamping machine that the owner brought in a brand new Ford F150, that he had in his possession for four hours.
On the way there The machine slid around in the bed and poked two holes in the aircraft- quality aluminum truck box. The stuff must be as thick as an aluminum pie plate.
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  #41  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
I stopped at a friend's place where he was prepping the ground for concrete.
He borrowed a large ground tamping machine that the owner brought in a brand new Ford F150, that he had in his possession for four hours.
On the way there The machine slid around in the bed and poked two holes in the aircraft- quality aluminum truck box. The stuff must be as thick as an aluminum pie plate.
Supposedly the other two Merican makers are going to go aluminum too...For fool ecconomy. once that happens I can see a business in aftermarket steel bed liners, and or classic trucks experiencing a bump in value.
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  #42  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:26 AM
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Well, that'd be about right... In the old days, the beds rusted out in a couple years, then they started painting/treating them w/stuff that bought you another couple of years. Now, they're going to aluminumnumnumnumnum, which you can poke a whole thru w/no trouble at all.... My Dad got his pickup bed coated w/this stuff that was rubbery, you couldn't damage it hardly at all, it would outlast the vehicle, made it quieter, & was difficult to cut even w/a sharp knife. The 2nd year they had it out, you could get it in any color you wanter-it was nominally black. As expensive as vehicles are now, looks like this stuff could at least be offered as an option...
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  #43  
Old 02-06-2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
I stopped at a friend's place where he was prepping the ground for concrete.
He borrowed a large ground tamping machine that the owner brought in a brand new Ford F150, that he had in his possession for four hours.
On the way there The machine slid around in the bed and poked two holes in the aircraft- quality aluminum truck box. The stuff must be as thick as an aluminum pie plate.
Actually I was referring to 4X4s of any vintage, but yeah, those aluminum boxes are just a bad idea. Government mandates have already wiped out cars, soon enough pickup trucks will be gone. Perhaps they should just force all automakers to go with Flintstone power and be done with it.
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My Dad got his pickup bed coated w/this stuff that was rubbery, you couldn't damage it hardly at all, it would outlast the vehicle, made it quieter, & was difficult to cut even w/a sharp knife. The 2nd year they had it out, you could get it in any color you wanter-it was nominally black. As expensive as vehicles are now, looks like this stuff could at least be offered as an option...
Spray-on bed liner, I've seen the stuff on the Canadian Tire site. I think it's also offered as a brush-on application.
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  #44  
Old 02-06-2019, 04:43 PM
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Yeah, Jon, back then-20 yrs back, it must have been offered only as professionally installed. Seems like, they took my dad's truck, cleaned the hell outta the bed, let it sit a day or 2 to dry good, sprayed it w/that stuff, & we got it a day or 2 later. It kinda looked like a "Spackled" ceiling finish., & it would "Give" a little when you walked on it, but it WASN'T slick when wet. Kinda expensive-IIRC, it set Henry, my dad, back about $400., which was likely you didn't see many pickemups w/them. They'd rather buy el-cheapo bedliners which always cracked, broke, or rusted the beds out quicker than if you just left the beds bare. At least, that's what happened down here, the bedliners would sweat, & stay wet, & often NASTY underneath.
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  #45  
Old 02-06-2019, 04:46 PM
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Actually I was referring to 4X4s of any vintage, but yeah, those aluminum boxes are just a bad idea. Government mandates have already wiped out cars, soon enough pickup trucks will be gone. Perhaps they should just force all automakers to go with Flintstone power and be done with it.

Spray-on bed liner, I've seen the stuff on the Canadian Tire site. I think it's also offered as a brush-on application.
Here in the states Ford vs Chevy is mostly a generic pickup truck debate... with Dodge being the little guy the others can agree to laugh off.... I guess canajins are more concerned with 4WD... understandable.
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