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  #76  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:57 PM
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dishdude dishdude is offline
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I think my 2018 Challenger was built in the same plant.

Last edited by dishdude; 10-13-2018 at 11:02 PM.
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  #77  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan View Post
The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.
I've spent the last four weeks trying to register. Different names, different emails....either they are too paranoid it's another spam account or god knows what but apparently they won't answer the door so screw them.

Which is just magical because I still have no idea how the Cruise Command actuator used to be installed in this car. It's the one thing in the service manual where there is absolutely nothing about it besides the wiring diagram. I don't even know what points on it attached to the Vacuum system and so far I have not found a photograph of it installed using Google.
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  #78  
Old 10-14-2018, 04:49 PM
fixmeplease fixmeplease is offline
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Is it autozone??? or at least one of the parts places that has online manuals and schematics for most vehicles. Might be worth a shot.
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  #79  
Old 10-14-2018, 07:14 PM
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No it's not an aftermarket cruise control system. It's the factory shipped option from AMC and is listed for a whole three pages in the mechanics manual. There's a speed transducer attached to the driveshaft, a control arm on the steering column, the regulator box under the dash, a brake light switch and of course the actuator.




I dismantled it to test the two solenoids, replace the vent filter and cleaned the potentiometer. Everything tests good and it will hold a vacuum so it's ready to be reinstalled. Normally the actuators for other cars I have seen have a rather long sleeved linkage but I did not find one with my bin of parts. The chain is however broken. Luckily the other side to it is hanging off the throttle linkage so I know where it used to connect.



But I can't find anything that resembles the mounting point for the actuator or for a bracket that I might be missing in proximity.
Then while I was around the carburetor I opened another can of worms.
I spotted the carb stepper motor was not only unplugged but the connector and been separated from the main wire harness and tie strapped to the side. While investigating that I found another connector which also at one point had SOMETHING plugged into it, but not anymore. Rummaging around through the bin found another solenoid valve with a matching plug and nearly identical wire color code but I cannot figure out what this used to be for.




Then I found ANOTHER part that had come off the carb. The Sol-Vac valve.


It and its two screws were in the bin of parts. The harness connector was nearby and the vacuum connection had been plugged. From what I am gathering about this little thing it works to counter Vapor lock problems which stem from design oversight and sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately the diaphragm is passing a vacuum through itself so the unit is bad and I have yet to locate another unit.
Basically I was starting to wonder if the ECU had been given the "Nutter Bypass" (what an awful name) that people talk about however portions of the procedure I could not locate and after some searching I located the ECU inside the cab under the passengers side foot area in seemingly great condition. It baffles me a little however that instead of gasketing and lidding the damn thing though they just potted it completely so it's impossible to service. Look at the thing. I can clearly see the casting marks for where the gasket and lid would go.



I mean, I could still do this nutter thing but before I proceed with that it might be wise to first figure out what other changes have already been done.

Edited: The mysterious solenoid and bracket appears to line up with the bolt points on top of the aftermarket valve cover. If this is where it normally is than since my car does not have an Air Pump and thus no need for an upsream and return solenoid (note the two unused mount points on the bracket) then this should be the VsV for the Sol-Vac unit.

Edited: Thank you Autoweek.



Upper left corner next to the blower motor. You can just make out the cruise control actuator. So I guess while I can verify the mounting bracket is hiding in my bin of parts it seems the sleeve for the control cable is missing. Drat.
Good news is that the system is not built exclusively by AMC. It was also available as a kit from Dana. Apparently that kit was universal and everyone from GM to Volvo used part or all of the kit in their own vehicles.



Something just feels....right...about the idea of going to Woolco and buying a cruise control package off the shelf.

Last edited by MIPS; 10-14-2018 at 10:20 PM.
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  #80  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:18 PM
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Typical among carbureted cars. The people working on them were in a firm mindset of 'fuck all this computer bullshit cuz I can't be bothered to understand it' and just destroy and disable what little engine control the car could've benefited from.

Anyhow, I see in the picture from autoweek, that the cruise control device is by the blower motor, but the one you're holding seems to have a cable no longer than 2 inches. If that's the case, yours would've been mounted real close to the carb, and likely not had a cable sleeve at all. Looking at the pic of the throttle lever with the broken ball chain, the actuator likely sits directly forward of it, as you only have maybe a 20 degree rotational tolerance of where it sits, since the actuator will need to pull in a straight line. You know what I mean?

In your book somewhere, there should be a vacuum diagram. Failing that, hopefully the vacuum routing sticker is still available under the hood of the car somewhere. Either will likely take a while to decipher, but should indicate the proper connection of the cruise actuator and that mystery solenoid.

Typically, though, for the cruise actuator, if should only take one vacuum line straight from manifold vacuum. Not quite sure why it has two ports, unless perhaps one is a takeoff for something else, or perhaps it goes to a vacuum reservoir. Not sure.

Last edited by MadMan; 10-14-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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  #81  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:39 PM
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If you think there should be a sleeve over the chain that connects the cruise actuator to the throttle on the carb you might want to think again. The working factory installed cruise control on my Lincoln has no sleave just the chain linkage. Yours probably never had a sleave.
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  #82  
Old Yesterday, 12:25 PM
fixmeplease fixmeplease is offline
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I doubt it had a sleeve either.

Madmen was right about the carb hookups. its rarer to find a carb with everything attached than with little attached. Im guilty of that myself as I dont want anything hooked to a carb that doesnt have to be there as it often affects performance.

By around 1985 the carbs had so much pollution crap hooked up to them that it was sucking a lot of power from the engine. Chryslers slant 6 was a perfect example. They quit making it (or it was one of the reasons) because it didnt have any power left after meeting EPA standards. At the same time Ford truck carbs were real crap and if you wanted your truck to run right you had to put an older carb on them, at least the smaller V8's. They were trying to eek out a little more mileage and complicated the heck out of them.
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  #83  
Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Unfortunately the British Columbia AirCare program was mothballed, not discontinued in 2014. Depending on where the next government goes we may restart the program to bail out the crown run insurance corporation. Under AirCare a car that shipped factory with an emissions control system must have it functioning or else you have two options: Fail the certification and not be able to get insurance or pay extra for a Classic Car Exemption/Collector plates (which restrict vehicle driving to 5000km per year). I have no choice but to repair it if possible, which so far may possibly just be a bad stepper motor. I have to investigate why it was unplugged.
It's clear that this car was worked on after AirCare was shutdown as we have these wiring changes and the catalytic converter has been removed. Coming from Langley there would of been no way to drive this car as-is during AirCare.

Last edited by MIPS; Yesterday at 02:26 PM.
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  #84  
Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIPS View Post
Basically I was starting to wonder if the ECU had been given the "Nutter Bypass" (what an awful name) that people talk about however portions of the procedure I could not locate and after some searching I located the ECU inside the cab under the passengers side foot area in seemingly great condition. It baffles me a little however that instead of gasketing and lidding the damn thing though they just potted it completely so it's impossible to service. Look at the thing. I can clearly see the casting marks for where the gasket and lid would go.
I'd prefer to call it the Bob Barker treatment.

Ugh, I hate it when something is potted in epoxy. I haven't been able to figure out a way to get through it, at least not without destroying what's inside.

Last edited by Jon A.; Yesterday at 02:43 PM.
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  #85  
Old Yesterday, 05:20 PM
fixmeplease fixmeplease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIPS View Post
Unfortunately the British Columbia AirCare program was mothballed, not discontinued in 2014. Depending on where the next government goes we may restart the program to bail out the crown run insurance corporation. Under AirCare a car that shipped factory with an emissions control system must have it functioning or else you have two options: Fail the certification and not be able to get insurance or pay extra for a Classic Car Exemption/Collector plates (which restrict vehicle driving to 5000km per year). I have no choice but to repair it if possible, which so far may possibly just be a bad stepper motor. I have to investigate why it was unplugged.
It's clear that this car was worked on after AirCare was shutdown as we have these wiring changes and the catalytic converter has been removed. Coming from Langley there would of been no way to drive this car as-is during AirCare.
OK, that explains why you are trying to hook up everything. Im glad I dont have vehicle inspections in my state but many states have them.
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  #86  
Old Today, 12:10 AM
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If you take some time to learn the systems and controls, it will all make sense. And contrary to popular opinion, all that 'emissions junk' on the engine barely hurts performance. Excepting, perhaps, EGR, but that's something most cars still have today. (The real affect of all that 'emissions junk' was way too many vacuum lines and components on the engine, making diagnostics a pain in the ass). What really bogs down these old cars is how the carbs are adjusted to minimize NOx and unburnt fuel in the exhaust. Makes them run pretty lean, and saps their power. Whereas a fuel injected motor can make adjustments in realtime, and easily compensates for it.

Chrysler came up with the 'Lean Burn' system as a work-around to making realtime adjustments to a carburetor. They found that if you run the mixture super lean, you can (mostly) compensate for it by having a super-variable ignition timing. It worked, but, like I said, nobody understood it, and decided to disable it. That, and in Chrysler's infinite wisdom, they put the Lean Burn computer right on top of the hot, vibrating engine. Guess how that turned out.

I'm curious now what the extent of the carb controls are on this car. It does have an O2 sensor...
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  #87  
Old Today, 01:45 AM
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The vacuum solenoid may be for the Idle up actuator which is the solenoid and vacuum item attached to the carburetor.

The electrical part is to set the idle, when you shut the car off it retracts, closes the throttle completely and prevents it from dieseling.

The vacuum part kicks in through the vacuum solenoid and idles it up whenever the compressor kicks in, ideally it's adjusted so the idle speed stays the same with the a/c on.
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