My $5 Find

[Unimatic1140]

Hey guys, I was so excited when I just found this beauty in the basement at an Estate Sale, its my first vintage 50's color set! And all this for $5.00 no less!

Looks like I'm going to have to start studing all about color circuits to get this CTC9 rebuilt, its the "Windslow" model from 1959.

[Rob]

Wow! Wanna make an instant profit of 10 dB? That's a superb score. Nobody ever gets that lucky. BTW, what are those round screen sets in the background?

Rob

Originally posted by Rob
BTW, what are those round screen sets in the background?

Rob

Rob,

Those are early experimental Westinghouse color prototypes from 1951. The screens are tilted upward to avoid reflecting room lights at the viewer.

[Unimatic1140]

Well with the back off the CTC-9 I see it looks pretty good in there. If found a repair slip inside and apparently the picture tube was replaced on 4/22/6??? with a 21FBP22 (I wish I could see that last and most important of all digits). I know this tube doesn't have the deep reds like the original 21CYP22 but looking on the bright side this tube might have 5 to 10 years less life on it.

A question for you guys, there are these maroon colored plastic capacitors on all over the top of the chassis, are these simply paper caps in disguise or are these more reliable like vintage versions of orange drops?

I will start with replacing all the electrolytics before I attempt any to apply any power.


By the way, the two sets in the background of the picture on top are my round-screen 1955 Westinghouse Laundomat Twins. I had to replace a tube or two to bring those babies back to full working order.

[Chad Hauris]

That cap you illustrated appears to be Mylar--I personally have not had any trouble with caps like that.

[rcaman]

i have the exact same set. i replaced all the electrolytics. there is a paper moulded cap ( black with stripes) on the horizontal board that will have to be changed and also one on the ac input. mine also had the crt replaced in 1966. mine has a great picture. there is also a 2mfd at 350volt cap on the video board that will need replaced also. resolder all the board to chassis ground connections they all seem to break loose. steve

[Carmine]

As someone who appreciates vintage appliances, (I have a Kenmore fridge and stove that have been in daily use since 1965!) I wanted to add a round-screen TV/Washer story....

Ever see the B&W Christmas episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where Mr. Drysdale buys the family a round-screen TV set as a gift? Everytime they turn it on it shows water (ocean), since they don't know what it is, Granny thinks it's one of those new-fangled clothes washers.

Or am I the only one who remembers this?

Originally posted by Unimatic1140
. . . I found a repair slip inside and apparently the picture tube was replaced on 4/22/6??? with a 21FBP22 (I wish I could see that last and most important of all digits). I know this tube doesn't have the deep reds like the original 21CYP22 but looking on the bright side this tube might have 5 to 10 years less life on it. . . .

It was the 21CYP22 that had the orange looking red phosphor. This phosphor was inefficient, which required that the red gun be driven harder. Often when a 21CYP22 goes bad, it is the red gun that fails. This was fixed in 1961 with the 21FBP22, which used a new red phosphor that was really red, and with beam currents approximately equal in all 3 guns.

Look at the type number on your tube. If it is a 21FBP22-A, it was made sometime after 1964 and has a rare earth red phosphor, which is even better than the 1961 version.

[Unimatic1140]

i have the exact same set. i replaced all the electrolytics. there is a paper moulded cap ( black with stripes) on the horizontal board that will have to be changed and also one on the ac input. mine also had the crt replaced in 1966. mine has a great picture. there is also a 2mfd at 350volt cap on the video board that will need replaced also. resolder all the board to chassis ground connections they all seem to break loose.

Thanks for the advice Rcaman I will start with replacing the electrolytics and those paper caps and see what happens after I power it up. Before I do anything I'm going to do a bit of studying on color circuit theory and learn about the mechanics of color picture tubes.

Ever see the B&W Christmas episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where Mr. Drysdale buys the family a round-screen TV set as a gift? Everytime they turn it on it shows water (ocean), since they don't know what it is, Granny thinks it's one of those new-fangled clothes washers.

I've never seen that episode of the Beverly Hillbillies Carmine, but I would love to find it someday. As a collector/restorer of both vintage television sets and vintage automatic washers that episode would sort of morph both of my passions into one.

Look at the type number on your tube. If it is a 21FBP22-A, it was made sometime after 1964 and has a rare earth red phosphor, which is even better than the 1961 version.

Hey Bill, thanks for correcting my assumptions about the reds of the 21FBP22, I've read so much about vintage television servicing over the past six months that its all mixing together in my head! Anyway I just went downstairs and took a good look at that tube, there is a sticker on it that says its a HR21FBP22A "Hi-Light". So it must have been installed sometime in the mid or possibly late 60's. What exactly is a "Red Earth Rare Phosphor"?

Originally posted by Unimatic1140
. . . I just went downstairs and took a good look at that tube, there is a sticker on it that says its a HR21FBP22A "Hi-Light". So it must have been installed sometime in the mid or possibly late 60's. What exactly is a "Red Earth Rare Phosphor"?

The 21FBP22-A & 21FJP22-A were introduced in 1964. Since yours is a replacement, chances are that it was made in the mid to late sixties, or even later. The main difference in the "A" version is the use of a rare earth phosphor for the red phosphor. The original used sulphide phosphors for all three colors, but in the "A" version the red phosphor was changed to a yttrium/europium "rare earth" phosphor, providing even higher brightness and truer reds. The green and blue phosphors in the "A" version remained the original sulphide types.

The 21FBP22-A can be used as a higher performance replacement for the 21FBP22, 21CYP22, and 21AXP22. The 21FJP22-A can also be used if it has been delaminated.

[andy]

...

Andy,

There are almost too many phosphor types to count today. Most of them are synthetic types and highly efficient. Many are made for highly specialized applications.

The 15GP22 and 21AXP22 of 1954 used sulphide type phosphors that corresponded exactly to the color specifications of the NTSC signal. This produced richly saturated color that is sometimes described as looking like a technicolor movie. Unfortunately, these phosphors were also inefficient (especially the red), producing a low brighness picture best viewed in a dimly lit room.

RCA received complaints about the low brightness and attempted to fix it with the 21CYP22 in 1957. Every trick they could think of to increase brightness was applied to that tube, including a more efficient red phosphor. While they did achieve some success at increasing the brightness, the red phosphor looked more like orange and more complaints were received.

A further attempt to improve the situation was made in 1961 with the 21FBP22 & 21FJP22. Another new, more efficient red phosphor that looked red was used, along with structural changes that equalized beam currents on the 3 guns. The result was better red and more brightness.

The final improvement in the round tubes was the use of a new rare earth phosphor (for red only) in the 21FBP22-A & 21FJP22-A in 1964, resulting in yet another brightness increase and improvement of red.

Many more changes in color picture tubes followed after the introduction of rectangular types, and have continued right up to the present. To date, nothing has been able to beat the cost effectiveness of the cathode ray tube.

[Eric H]

Getting back to the year of your tube, my 1957 CTC-7 has an RCA 21CYP22 but it has "60" stamped right on the center of the base cap, meaning, I think, that it was made in 1960, three years after the set was built.

I have seen other CYP's on eBay that had 57 stamped in the same spot, more evidence that this is the year of manufacture?

If your tube is an RCA maybe it has a similar stamp or date code, maybe in another location?

Note the tube in this set:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3638
has 72-17 stamped on it, i.e. 17th week of 1972

Eric,

I think you are right about the date codes. Looks like your set and the one on eBay both have replacement RCA tubes.

The 1958 Allied Radio catalog does not list the 21CYP22 or 15GP22, but the 21AXP22 appears with a list price of $160 and net of $127.40. The metal cone type 27MP4 is only 93 cents less!

[wiseguy]

humm..I always thought it was just the opposite about the red phosphor in these tubes,i had always thought it was the 21fbp22 that had orangeish reds and the 21cyp22 that had truer reds..
if this is true then i will stop my hunt for a 21cyp22 ..
interesting...
terry