Getting usable HD input/output with D-VHS without a computer?

[Electronic M]

So a couple of years ago I bought a nice working pair of JVC HM-DH30000U D-VHS decks. But aside from a brief functionality test I have barely used them...In addition to watching the tapes I have I'd like to use these decks, and the blank tapes I have, for occasional time shifting (thus making a PC an impractical/unreliable solution to IO conversion).

These decks are capable of recording 1080i HD (or really any digital data), but the only HD input they have is a stinking HDV/FireWire port; there isn't even an ATSC tuner(what were they thinking?!). And HD outputs are only marginally better with a choice of HDV or HD analog component video. At least you can get cheap converters to make Component into HDMI.

I can't get a cable box with HDV/FireWire output, only HDMI.
Anyone know of any early hDTV OTA tuners that have HDV/FireWire output?
If I could get such a tuner I could record OTA (and ATSC demodulators are getting cheap enough that I could get one to modulate HDMI from my system to an ATSC channel to record).

Also does anyone know of any HDMI to HDV converters or any HDV to HDMI converters?
I know Grass Valley made the ADVC-HD50 HDMI to HDV converter, but they are out of production and seem to be unobtainium(I'd like to be proven wrong on that). If there's any other devices out there I'd love to find them.
You'd think with all the nuts shelling out 3-4 figures for D-VHS decks someone would have made a bidirectional HDV converter with an HDMI input and an HDMI output for a couple hundred dollars to cash in on people like me...It can't be that hard.

I have to wonder how anyone even used these decks 20 years ago when the inputs make it VERY hard to record anything but SD NTSC.

[Dave A]

Samsung had the SIR-T165 tuner and Panasonic had the TU-DST51 tuner, both with firewire out. There is a 51 on the bay now. Not mine. I had the Samsung and it was problematic and slowly died. No experience with the Panasonic

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Dave A

Samsung had the SIR-T165 tuner and Panasonic had the TU-DST51 tuner, both with firewire out. There is a 51 on the bay now. Not mine. I had the Samsung and it was problematic and slowly died. No experience with the Panasonic

Thanks! I was able to get that Panasonic box.

I'm planning to get an ATSC modulator thats coming up for bid tomorrow.
If the Panasonic ATSC tuner works properly with my JVC deck then the ATSC modulator will likely fix 3 things in my AV system that have been bugging me: Not being able to use my D-VHS to time shift cable (I do have a HDMI to USB capture device but it's a single event timer so on vacation I always end up missing something), having to run a 30' HDMI cable under the carpet from my source rack to my HDCRT Sony(with the modulator I can make that a low power OTA RF link), and simultaneously displaying an HDMI signal on my HDTV and my antique vacuum tube TVs and having it look good on both (I should be able to tune the ATSC modulator on my SD Zenith converter boxes select letterbox or crop mode depending on content/preference and feed the Zenith box to my old sets....Heck it might also give me a way of linking the 2nd floor and basement SD video racks noise free and allow HD signals from upstairs to be watched downstairs...

I'm planning on reconfiguring my main AV rack soon and if all these new components work right there's going to be a lot of exciting improvements.

[NJRoadfan]

Depending on the cable company, you may be able to convince them to give you a tuner with Firewire output, which works with DVHS decks. Problem is many stations are being switched to MPEG4 streams which won't work with the deck's MPEG2 decoder.

I hope the Panasonic ATSC tuner is a bit more reliable. The Samsung was a buggy pile of crap. I could never get it to see my JVC DVHS deck to schedule recordings. Manual recording worked fine though.

[Electronic M]

We do have a cable box with 6 pin FireWire. Recording from that gets video and audio cutting in and out so it's not really usable. Also since it's the only premium box in the house it's dedicated to the parents domain and I can only borrow it occasionally.
We're about to drop cable so the premium box which is now the only one left (rent on the 5 basic boxes was highway robbery) and will be gone in a couple of weeks.

I think the Panasonic deck controls don't work completely with the JVC deck (been a while since I tried that) but the JVC will record off the Panasonic. I think the JVC's internal timer can record off the FireWire so it's no big deal.

I actually discovered I didn't need to buy the Panasonic box since my decks came with a RCA DTV/Satellite box that has a 169time FireWire mod specifically designed to work with JVC DVHS decks. The DTV tuner receives less poorly than the Panasonic does and will work as a DTV tuner without the satellite system configured so that has become my go-to.

Last week I managed to snag a Grass Valley ADVC-HD50 HDMI to HDV converter for a C-note off evilbay... unfortunately I think it's broken blinking red light it gives whenever powered is listed as contact maker if this occurs in manual. I'm going to get a 6 pin to 6 pin FireWire and try it with a computer and then if it still doesn't work contact grass valley and see if they still support it...If not it's getting returned.

[Electronic M]

Well I'm a dummy...So the Grass Valley ADVC-HD50 works fine, but only with the 5V 3A wall wart specified. The one I connected (borrowed from my Sharp MiniDisc portable only puts out 450mA. Which is enough for it to blink the light to complain about insufficient power.
Since the sharp wall wart was hacked together from a barrel connector that fits and a random wall wart I'm going to do the same for the grass valley box.

[Electronic M]

Well now that I have messed around with the Grass Valley ADVC-HD50 I'm disappointed...
My JVC D-VHS decks will flawlessly decode and display the signal the GV box sends it on the JVCs composite video output, but if I record the signal from the GV box on the JVC it will play back with horrendous digital codec errors (especially if there is ANY motion in the video image) and basically no sound (there was a fraction of a second in the 15 minutes of testing I did).

This makes no sense to me that the JVC can decode the live signal but if I record it there's horrendous errors on playback. The only explanation I can come up with is that maybe the GV box has a higher bit rate than the tape can handle, but not higher than the JVCs recorder can handle...That or there's some weird trick formatting or copy protection in the signal.

Anyone else ever use a Grass Valley ADVC-HD50 with a JVC D-VHS deck?
If so how did it work for you?

[KentTeffeteller]

What part of HDCP, (High Definition Content Protection) don't you understand? Which is also mandated with HDMI.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by KentTeffeteller

What part of HDCP, (High Definition Content Protection) don't you understand? Which is also mandated with HDMI.

I understand it just fine... Possibly better than you. And I can assure you this isn't an HDCP issue. I regularly record HDMI with an " HDML cloner box" I bought off Amazon. It won't record HDCP protected content connected directly to it...So I use a HDMI splitter (1 input, 2 output) that removes HDCP in series with it's input to enable the HDML box to record HDCP protected content.

I used that same HDMI splitter that strips HDCP to feed the grass valley box so there's no problem with HDCP.

HDCP is not mandated with HDMI. The HDMI signal standard is based off the NON-HDCP capable DVI standard and all devices that can take an HDMI input can accept a DVI input with a dumb adapter cable that maps the pins from one connector to the other...I have used such an adapter with an ancient graphics card that predated HDMI and it worked great.
Additionally HDCP is not like 80s macro vision where if it exists you can't record (without stripping it) there's 3 HDCP flags that tell recorders what they can and can't do. Those flags are: copy always, copy once (recorder will change that flag to copy never), and copy never.
HDCP was cracked ages ago and there's lots of ways around it...It's more of a joke than macrovision.

Also FireWire is it's own format and had its own HDCP which I know isn't present on the grass valley box FireWire output either....How do I know?...on the rare occasion I get to borrow my parents cable box with FireWire output I've tried to record off of it. Commercials it will let me record and play back, but actual TV programs have FireWire HDCP. FireWire HDCP when active will make the VCR blank out all video output on recording and playback and display the message " Error 102/202 HDCP protected content cannot record/playback".
The grass valley box doesn't throw that error so it doesn't have HDCP...heck it's manual even mentions that your not to hold them responsible for your copyright infringement.

[KentTeffeteller]

All good points, well said. But the biggest application of D-VHS was camcorder work, and D-Theater movies on D-VHS tape. I would not be surprised if your issue with usable HD input/output is a format issue with the GVG ADVC-HD50 that is getting in your way. Hope you can get things to work, wonder if there's any adjustable settings to try?