DTV on standard NTSC TVs

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

BTW, how much longer will we VKers (and anyone else) using converter boxes with older TVs be able to use these boxes? I ask because many cable systems are converting to 100 percent digital, and reception of local broadcast channels on many if not most systems will require the use of the cable operator's own cable boxes after a certain date.

The digital set-top tuners should be usable for decades, until either ATSC is replaced by another over-the-air standard (probably sooner than NTSC and its B&W predecessor were), or over-the-air itself goes away (which I have heard is possible, as awful as it sounds).

Whether cable systems become all-digital or not is a separate issue from the ATSC tuners, because they are not usable on cable anyway.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

The digital set-top tuners should be usable for decades, until either ATSC is replaced by another over-the-air standard (probably sooner than NTSC and its B&W predecessor were)...

Maybe a LOT sooner. ATSC 3.0

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...011/index.html

[gellis]

Time and time again, I keep seeing DTV, ATSC, NTSC being discussed here. Extreme overkill, one thread after another beating a dead horse about converter boxes, which one is better, will this one last, this one is made in china, this one is made in korea, followed by rants that NTSC was shut down... We get it.

I think this site should be renamed converterboxkarma.org

"Your one stop resource to discuss DTV converter boxes and curb picked smoker sets from the 80's"

[AUdubon5425]

Originally Posted by gellis

Time and time again, I keep seeing DTV, ATSC, NTSC being discussed here. Extreme overkill, one thread after another beating a dead horse about converter boxes, which one is better, will this one last, this one is made in china, this one is made in korea, followed by rants that NTSC was shut down... We get it.

I think this site should be renamed converterboxkarma.org

"Your one stop resource to discuss DTV converter boxes and curb picked smoker sets from the 80's"

I'd give five dollars to see "gellis" say something remotely useful rather than bitch about this forum.

[jr_tech]

How about a fourth TV category, something like "Digital TV - Flat Panel" to keep these discussions off of the categories that are intended for more vintage sets?

jr

[Kamakiri]

Sounds like a plan to me. In fact, I'll make it live shortly.....

[Jeffhs]

I agree with the posters complaining about the threads on flat-panel/digital TV on the antique television category of VK, and hope the new FP and digital TV forum is up and running soon.

I'm all for a separate DTV/flat panel forum. This one, as others have noted, is for discussions of vintage and antique televisions; discussions of sets newer than the '70s definitely do not belong here.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the new forum; it is, as my subject line says, an idea whose time has come. IMHO, VK should have had a DTV forum some years ago, when DTV took over from NTSC.

[peverett]

ChrisW6ATV mentioned the possiblity of broadcast going away. This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. In fact, there is a proposal that just left committee, S. 911, to sell even more of the broadcast spectrum in the guise of helping the budget. This would not yet end broadcast TV, but would chip away at it(depending on who would give up their spectrum for what essenctially is a bribe).

My congressman is one of the sponsers and I wrote a letter to her telling her this is a very bad idea as was the last sale(over the air TV stolen from millions of Americans to help some rich phone companies in my opinion). I also asked her why are we not renting or leasing the spectrum instead of selling it if we need money that bad. Seems like this would be better for the budget and the US would retain more control over the spectums use.

[Jeffhs]

I'm not the least bit concerned, as I have cable. If broadcast TV is someday discontinued, I'm sure the cable company here (Time Warner), as well as every other cable operator in the country, will continue to carry the signals over the cable, even if it eventually means getting direct feeds from each of Cleveland's seven OTA network TV stations. Cable companies already do this with must-carry cable networks such as ESPN, CNN, TBS, TNT, et al. -- why can't broadcast TV be received at the headend the same way? If broadcast TV is eventually legislated out of existence, this may be the only way to get the broadcast TV stations many of us can see free with an antenna. If I say any more I'm liable to get political, so on that note I'll hush up.

[vintagecollect]

Very good thread w/ info. That channel Master converter looks top notch. HDMI, RCA, analog outputs--can it feed an old tv and New HDMI set at same time too?! That's an old brand w/ good history, looks better. I really wish had need for one, can't receive more than a few channels.

Wanna save 1 to 2 K$ a year? Get one of these and watch free tv if you live in right metro area. My ATSC HD portable TV has awesome picture! Can only receive lots of free DTV signals near my work, NOT home. Several coworkers complimented me on amazing portable tv picture. Use it for breaks.

Watch free tv and save $120 to $200/ month, I WISH I COULD. I would just rent movies instead of paying sheisty movie channels. People just don't realize how expensive cable is, no real competition, a real monopoly like the old ma Bell.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by vintagecollect

Very good thread w/ info. That channel Master converter looks top notch. HDMI, RCA, analog outputs--.

Which Channel Master converter has HDMI output?

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by vintagecollect

Wanna save 1 to 2 K$ a year? Get one of these and watch free tv if you live in right metro area.

Yes indeed! I keep a running total of the money saved since I cancelled satellite TV in late 2005; it is up to about US$5,900.00 so far.

[Jeffhs]

Technology is changing almost literally at the drop of a hat these days, everywhere you look. Broadcast TV may well be discontinued for good eventually (but just when is anyone's guess), with all present OTA TV stations putting their signals on cable. This will also spell the end of "portable" television as we have known it since the first portables appeared on the US market in the 1950s. It is certainly possible to connect a portable TV to a 100+-foot-long cable (!) so that the set can be moved around the house (but who would want to deal with that long cable, not to mention the safety hazard it causes?), or, alternatively, cable outlets can be installed in every room of the house so that a portable TV can be hooked up anywhere the viewer wishes -- even on the front porch, patio, etc. if desired.

However, as I mentioned, TV technology, like everything else, is changing, like it or not. If and when (at this point it is much more "when" than if) broadcast TV ends in the US and all TV is distributed via cable, we will just have to deal with it. The days of watching OTA TV via converter boxes and antennas on older (pre-1990s) TVs are just about over, except for VK members and other antique/vintage TV collectors. Most homes today are wired for cable or satellite, so the market for OTA television antennas is not what it once was. The village in which I live is served by Time Warner Cable; most residents, myself included, are connected to cable via this cable operator. I see very few (and I mean very few) outdoor TV antennas here; those I do see are falling apart, losing elements in every wind/snowstorm we get here (I live near Lake Erie, so we get the wind right off the lake in the winter and sometimes the gusts are quite high, on the order of 40 mph or more) and are becoming real eyesores.

Over-the-air television, IMHO, will eventually disappear in this country, as I said earlier, being replaced by cable and/or satellite services, although a few people I've talked to (my barber, for one, who lives almost literally on Lake Erie) have expressed displeasure with the latter because of reception issues during inclement weather -- for example, one other person with whom I spoke recently told me her family's satellite service goes absolutely blank when the dish gets covered with snow, when it rains, etc. I suggested to her that they switch to cable, but she told me she wasn't sure whether Time Warner will run cable down her street in a rural area of Geauga County, Ohio. My barber recently switched to AT&T U-Verse TV service from satellite for the same reasons (reception issues in bad weather).

We must face facts -- OTA television's days are numbered. Just when TV stations will turn to cable exclusively I don't know, but I am sure the day is coming. VK member Radiotvnut in Meridian, Mississippi has mentioned that the cable system in his area will cease analog delivery of channels 2 through twelve eventually (some time next year), and I see most other cable operators following suit. This means that, sooner rather than later, all TV will be not only digital (as it is today), but available only through cable, with over-the-air service becoming a relic of a bygone era -- not unlike the NTSC analog television broadcasting standard, which was abolished in 2009 and replaced by ATSC digital TV on June 12 of that year.

Our children's children will, in all likelihood, have no memory of OTA TV, as by that time (a generation or so from now) I am sure broadcast television will have ended here. Even televisions with "dials" and picture tubes are unheard of to today's kids; a nationally-syndicated comic strip, "Mother Goose and Grimm", in today's newspaper (the Lake County, Ohio News-Herald) drives that point home exceedingly well, IMHO. Grimm (the dog) and a cat are shown in the first panel in front of a TV set; Grimm asks the cat "What are you watching?" The cat answers, "I don't know, some stupid program." Grimm then asks the cat why he doesn't change the channel. "I can't," the cat answers. "They said 'don't touch that dial.'" In the last panel, Grimm whispers to the cat, "What's a dial?" The cat replied, "I don't know."

That was as good a commentary on the shift in technology from dials to buttons on televisions as I've ever read, and it applies to today's children very well. Kids today do not, by and large, know life before digital (ATSC) television, growing up or having grown up with that standard and seeing a television in their parents' living room that is completely devoid of dials (only buttons on the front or side of the set), and with a flat screen instead of a picture tube (what we VK folks call CRTs). If a teenage kid, knowing only life with DTV and flat panel televisions, saw an old, large NTSC-standard TV with a picture tube screen and knobs and dials (including, of course, the one that goes "clunk-clunk-clunk" to change the channel -- what we VKers know as the tuner) today, he or she would almost certainly be amazed that people actually used to watch television on these things.

[gellis]

I should also point out that telephones also once had dials. This is because telephones (before the touch tone system which we now have today) used to be accomplished by rotating a circular object (then, known as a "dial") about its axis. These early pre-touch tone telephones were referred to as "rotary dial telephones", because the dial (the device which was part of the telephone) was used to complete the numerical input of a telephone number (which is needed when placing a phone call).
Many commercials today indicate to "dial" a phone number. This may be confusing to some as it would be physically impossible to "dial" a telephone number with a modern day touch tone key pad. I often wonder if the advertizers realize that they are suggesting the use of an obsolete technology when they tell the viewer (or listener if the broadcast is being heard on the radio) to "dial" their telephone number, or perhaps this is just a slang term that has become a mainstream part of our culture that everyone recognizes when one is asked to place a phone call

[old_tv_nut]

Some cable headends (and especially satellite services) do get direct feeds. Many remote cable headends use digital over-the-air receivers to pick up broadcast stations and convert them to analog if they have an analog tier. They generally report that the digital signals are higher quality and more reliable than the analog signals used to be.