The GE PE250 Early Color Television Camera

[dtvmcdonald]

Originally Posted by John Hafer

RCA TK-26 and GE looked similar, but TK-27 films looked way different and were awful compared to the GE and older RCA TK-26. TK-27s were washed out, low in contrast and saturation and did not the "wow" look of the others.

Could not these properties be have been changed by a changed set of
adjustments, at the cost of increased noise?

[J Ballard]

Hi all-

Today, I received word from a former ABC colleague who confirms that ABC did indeed have 3 GE color film cameras at the Union City, NJ site. These were located in NJ to avoid the 35mm exhibition tax in NYC (NBC had a similar arrangement in Englewood Cliffs), and the signals were microwaved back to the NY TOC. Being in NJ is probably the reason why photos don't exist (I've been through the ABC Technical Photo archive, and don't recall seeing any GEs).

However, in NY, ABC had 10 TK-27s and 4 TK-28s. These telecines also supported WABC-TV's newsgathering efforts.

A former ABC Hollywood manager confirms that ABC's first color programming originated in Hollywood in September 1963 on an RCA TK-26. Two years later, a second TK-26 was added, followed by seven TK-27s and later, a TK-29.

The only GE cameras of any type in Hollywood were 250s used for the "Joey Bishop Show."

An interesting discussion-thanks to all.

Regards,

J Ballard

[John Hafer]

Many thanks J Ballard for the info. I was not aware of the 35mm exhibition tax in NYC.

At any rate, a couple of questions and remarks:

You stated that ABC's first color programming started in September 1963. I assume you meant September 1962 as it is well documented ABC started color broadcasts in September 1962 and I even have some old TV Guides showing color this.

The fact that ABC NY had 10 TK-27s was interesting so I guess they did not stay with GE cameras. However, I think TK-27s started shipping in the late spring of 1965 so until then, ABC NY must have still been using the GE cameras. It is also interesting in that around that same time, (late spring 1965) I started to notice a change in the quality of ABC color film shows, looking pale, low contrast, and muddy (as if the lens on the camera was dirty) that was so similiar with TK-27s, so this may have explained why I was seeing the change. As I said, to this day, I have a vivid memory of the differences between TK-27s and GE PE24/240 cameras. There was no comparison in my mind. Why ABC went with TK-27s was (IMHO) a big mistake.

Finally, you mention the ABC Technical Photo Archive. Do you have old pictures showing the ABC Broadcast Center? If so can you share any of them for I would love to see them for I collect old broadcast equipment pictures.

[W.B.]

Very interesting, all. But I remember the exhibition tax issue and the setups of NBC and ABC. I think this even affected independent station WNEW-TV, which had much of its telecine equipment (involving the showing of movies on their various umbrellas, i.e. Five Star Movie, Metromedia Movie, Movie Greats, Hollywood's Finest) in its final years of Metromedia ownership around the area of that company's corporate HQ in Secaucus, NJ.

But in a sense, it makes sense ABC in NY would have used TK-27's. I once saw a clip someone taped off of WABC-TV in New York in 1983 where the color test pattern's white balance appeared turquoise green/bluish, not unlike what people waking up in Washington, DC to WRC-TV's test pattern saw on their color sets. So, that would mean that the following NY stations would have used the TK-27 (that I know of):
- WNBC-TV
- WNEW-TV
- WABC-TV
- WOR-TV
- WPIX
- WNDT / WNET (?)
with WCBS-TV the odd one out, the only one to use the GE PE-240's (but then, they were housed on the grounds of the Broadcast Center, so . . . ). Don't know about what the old WNYC-TV used at the point they converted to color in 1968 . . .

It would also likely mean that sometimes when they had on the color test pattern in the morning, the blacks were sort of dark green-bluish, the greys were about greenish, and the whites orange/pinkish. I've seen quite a few video clips of test patterns on local stations known to have TK-27's in their telecine setups to notice.

And then the auto-iris which was part of the TK-27. Many a video clip on various sites besides YouTube show the characteristics thereof, where a scene goes from dark to light and the first second or so is too light before the exposure adjusts.

Now, can any member of this forum from Chicago apprise us of the telecine setups of the local stations there? (I seem to remember WBBM and WFLD definitely used TK-27's, probably WCIU via hand-me-downs, maybe even WSNS).

[old_tv_nut]

I have no direct knowledge of equipment used in Chicago (or anywhere else), but as a viewer I can recall a time when WGN obviously installed some new automatic color correction gear, because the film material got a new look and you could see the color wandering around during individual scenes (IIRC, sensitive to actor movements or other scene changes, but also wandering even in mostly static scenes).

[John Hafer]

W.B. thanks for your reply and info. I thought that WOR-TV went with GE color cameras. I know that WNAC-TV in Boston did and it was a RKO General station. I also thought that WOR-TV was a RKO General station so I would think both would purchase the same equipment.

I remember having a tour of WNAC-TV back around 1967 and they had GE PE-250 live color cameras and a slug of GE PE-240 color film cameras. I think they had something like 5 color film islands. They had also replaced their RCA TP-16 projectors with Eastman 285 16mm projectors.

[W.B.]

To be sure, WOR-TV did use GE PE-250's for their live studio camera setup, beginning in 1967 . . . it was with their film chains that they were RCA. Same thing with WPIX.

[J Ballard]

Hi all-

John, the September 1963 date as the commencement of ABC color film was obtained from a retired ABC engineering manager on the WC. I did no research to confirm that date, so my apologies.

Color film origination had its pitfalls in the early days. Somewhere, I have an NBC memo about the colorimetry on "Bonanaza" and its overall red cast. It turns out that the film stock was passing a large amount of near IR light, so a correction filter was added on TK-26s for that show.

It was generally regarded at NBC and ABC that the TK-26 was a superior camera than the TK-27 in most respects, and they were assigned prime time network programming. Considerable work went into improving both designs in the field. In the case of the 26, new SS preamps were installed (reports at both the network level and at ambitious affiliates), adding 2H enhancers, and replacing the encoder. NBC even designed a polarity reversing amplifier for color negative film for a few 26s.

The TK-27 could operate in automatic mode using "auto target." Many users were not pleased with results, as tracking among channels was not uniform. A small company, Beston Electronics, developed an ND wheel and servo kit for cameras using auto target such as the TK-27. This was a big improvement in color tracking, I thought, but a former RCA field engineer said that the ND wheel was not neutral throughout its range. Many customers added 2H image enhancers, and you could replace the proc modules in the color channel with Proc D modules designed for the TK-42. This gave you variable gamma control in the color channels. Color trim filters were also modified.

The TK-27 never registered very well, and the tubes made in Lancaster suffered badly in quality after a strike in the late 1970s. I know some NYC stations were buying their vidicons from EEV, and even as late as the TK-29, EEV tubes were sold by RCA if the customer so requested.

Some users felt that lag on the 27 was far better than on the 26 and 28/29s, since there was no ND wheel, and the vidicons were being hit with higher light levels.

RCA sold over 1100 TK-28/29/290 telecine cameras by the time the company closed its doors in October 1985.

Regarding the ABC archive, I can ask about it. It was mostly Kodachrome slides of TK-41s on remotes, but also some B&W prints about the early days of color.

Regards,
JB

[Steve D.]

J. Ballard,

I'm old enough to remember when NBC color film series aired in the early 60's. Shows like Bonanza, Tales of Wells Fargo, Laramie ect. did have a red/brownish cast. I mainly point out western series as they tended to have more red/brown in scenes. Wooden structures, saloon & cabin interiors, barren ground and such. This seem to improve during the later 60's & on:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bizY20UIDg



-Steve D.

[J Ballard]

Steve,

I'll have to drag out that memo concerning "Bonanza." This was a highly rated program for NBC and it generated a lot of concern.

Bonanza might have been shot on Technicolor, where the 26s might have been more sensitive to IR, as opposed to Eastman print stock.

I promise everyone an answer.

BTW, RCA made a low cost color film camera, the PK-610 , later rebranded the TK-610, that also used auto target for stand alone operation. The results and relaibility of this low cost camera were medocre, at best.

Regards,
JB

JB

[Steve D.]

Originally Posted by J Ballard

Steve,

I'll have to drag out that memo concerning "Bonanza." This was a highly rated program for NBC and it generated a lot of concern.

Bonanza might have been shot on Technicolor, where the 26s might have been more sensitive to IR, as opposed to Eastman print stock.

I promise everyone an answer.

BTW, RCA made a low cost color film camera, the PK-610 , later rebranded the TK-610, that also used auto target for stand alone operation. The results and relaibility of this low cost camera were medocre, at best.

Regards,
JB

JB

JB,

I found this reply to a post on an old VK thread: "Bonanza was processed by Consolidated Film Industries in Los Angeles. Not by Technicolor. They have always been Eastmancolor. Around 1990, Republic Pictures, the owner at the time of Bonanza, had new master prints made from the original Eastman camera negatives, which had faded slightly. They looked vastly better than they had in the past. These were 35mm. The printing negatives were worn out over the years from use and title changes, etc.
Remember when Bonanza went into re-runs, and was retitled "Ponderosa?" I still have some film reels with the name Ponderosa printed on them in white lettering. Nice.

I ran Bonanza in syndication for a number of years on 16mm film prints. They were always a bit reddish, but usually looked very nice on the air.

Now, Bonanza is on digital product and is way-over sharpened up, to me. It almost looks gritty on screen.

As for old TV film cameras, NBC used RCA chains. They needed regular attention, which I'm sure they got when someone complained about the lag issues. I can recall several times when I could see camera registration errors on network films.

Our station used RCA TK-27, and TK-28 film cameras, and TP-66 projectors. These cameras were 'tweeked' weekly. They went out of service in the mid-90's when everything went to tape. I do miss film on TV."

I have also read that Bonanza was shot in Technicolor and processed by CFI.
Seems to be some room for confirmation on what color process was used and perhaps, over the show's run, that different color processes were used.

-Steve D.

[mpatoray]

Here is a clip form "Music Scene" which aired on ABC, this is form 1969 and is of "The Archies" "Sugar Sugar" which would have been on film. Sure is a lot softer then the Live video, which would have been PC-60/70's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKywSgQ4OHE

Matt

[old_tv_nut]

So, is this a 4-tube telecine? Sure looks like the color is off register from the luminance in the upper right especially. The lesser smears elsewhere could just be from the multiple generations of transfer/coding the video has been through.

[J Ballard]

Hi All-

I looked for the NBC "Bonanza" memo this past weekend, and was unsuccessful, but I did locate two pieces of documentation related to this issue.

The first is a paper from the SMPTE "Color Television" collection dated November 1964, p.80, by Hank Kozanowski, head of advanced camera development at RCA, and the lead engineer on the TK-26. The paper is titled,"Infrared Transmission Characteristics of Various Color Release Prints and Their Effects on Color Television reproduction."

To receive the attention by Dr. Kozanowski, this subject had to have been of major importance. I have no doubt this was related to "Bonanza," as that show was likely NBC's biggest cash cow film program.

He describes tests done at NBC Burbank by Ken Erhardt on changes in telecine red channel black level adjustment when switching between Technicolor Imbibition print stock and Eastman 5385 film. Later, NBC-NY performed similar tests, affirming the Burbank results, showing a predominant red "haze" (elevated black level) from the Technicolor film.

Spectral measurements conducted in Camden revealed a 5-6 fold greater transmittance of near IR light in the 700-750 nM region of Technicolor print stock than the 35mm Eastman version. In addition, the original 1954 TK-26 red filter did not have a steep cutoff chaarteristic below 700 nM, but remained at about 20% transmittance beginning at approximately 650 nM.

Tests were conducted with a Technicolor T-1247 filter and also a filter from Fish-Schurman, both correcting the IR transmittance issue. The Technicolor filter began cutoff around 640 nM, and the F-S not as drastic. The final design was a combination red trim and IR cut filter, tested at NBC NY by Ed Betero, and installed in all NBC TK-26s, made by Fish-Schurman.

The second piece of documentation is an RCA Technical bulletin #G27 applying to all TK-26 models, encouraging customers to replace the original 1954 red filter with the better Fish-Schurman model, availabe from RCA as stock #230098. The change applied even to the TK-26C which was in production before the release of this paper.

The filter replacement addresses 4 items, according to the Tech Bulletin:

The modification was designed to improve the color fidelity and color balance tracking.

The amount of infrarared light transmitted through color film varies with the technique used in processing the film.

The red trim filter filter modification greatly reduces the amount of infrared light reaching the vidicon photo cathode.

The "red channel" pedestal shift, with changes in film of various processing techniques, is greatly produced. Thus the need to rebalance the equipment signals for changes in good color film is greatly reduced.

Again, I'm 99% certain this change was related to "Bonanza" and I'll keep searching for the NBC memo.

Regards,

JB

[John Hafer]

Originally Posted by W.B.

To be sure, WOR-TV did use GE PE-250's for their live studio camera setup, beginning in 1967 . . . it was with their film chains that they were RCA. Same thing with WPIX.

W.B: Actually, here is an ad for GE from August 1965 stating that WOR-TV did purchase GE PE-24 4 Tube color cameras. If they did use RCA film chains, they must have been later on.