FCC To Repack Channels

[centralradio]

Since the stations now lack in power with digital signal.Maybe they can add some translators like we are getting all the clutter of FM translators lately.

I used too get all stations here .Some just only with the ant terminals .Not I get a 1/2 a station if I jump on the roof.Yes we got a screw job in 2009.

[WISCOJIM]

Originally Posted by centralradio

Yes we got a screw job in 2009.

Yes, some got screwed, but I think a whole lot more benefited from the change. I had 7 analog channels, now I get 21 digital channels with better reception and picture than before. Gone is the snow, normal interference, and the flutter from the planes going to and from the local airport when I had the analog OTA. The digital OTA reception is far more reliable than the service I previously had from cable and satellite, with a far superior picture.

.

[centralradio]

Originally Posted by kf4rca

Most station management were hoping the digital thing would just go away. They had all their equipment paid for and they were making money.
If you think you got screwed, think about the cost the stations incurred. In some instances the entire tower had to be replaced.
Many felt this was an attempt to cull the herd, driving some stations out of business. And some would cry for subsidies allowing the government to control them further.

Got a point there.Yes stations suffer the cost of the upgrades.To bad the engineering design of DTV could not be multiplexed into the analog signal and we have a choice like Iboc on AM /FM radio.

They could find another band for the telecom and wireless communications instead of picking away of the current TV band.Leave it to greed and pockets filled with green grease and they can get away with it.Where is the emergency response channels as they were pitching when they were pushing for the switch over.No new emergency response channels here.
Probably mostly wireless it all went too.

Originally Posted by WISCOJIM

Yes, some got screwed, but I think a whole lot more benefited from the change. I had 7 analog channels, now I get 21 digital channels with better reception and picture than before. Gone is the snow, normal interference, and the flutter from the planes going to and from the local airport when I had the analog OTA. The digital OTA reception is far more reliable than the service I previously had from cable and satellite, with a far superior picture.

.

Yes .You got a point there Jim.DTV has the sub channels and better reception better for some.It was great for 2 to 3 years of co-channel issues after the switch on cable before Comcast switched the all digital.Digital cable sucks here and its more out then on.I have to keep rebooting the cable boxes .I remember it was a complete mess when the New York channels co-channel with other stations.

[benman94]

Originally Posted by centralradio

Got a point there.Yes stations suffer the cost of the upgrades.To bad the engineering design of DTV could not be multiplexed into the analog signal and we have a choice like Iboc on AM /FM radio.

There was an experimental system at RCA in the 80s that would have provided something akin to HD 16:9 (or something near it) in an all analog system that was backward compatible to boot. You could have flipped on a 630TS and watched a show being broadcast in "HD" with no converter box.

The FCC pissed away 70 some odd years of compatibility for a DTV system that won't work 10 feet from the transmitter... it's absolute bullshit.

[Jeffhs]

I was all but dead set against DTV at first, but now I see it completely differently. I get a much better picture and more channels (even with basic cable) than I ever did with analog NTSC. I live in a semi-fringe area for Cleveland TV (35-40 miles from the stations), but that doesn't seem to matter with digital; however, with analog, I could only get one channel with a picture good enough to watch. I now get eight stations (somewhat more with their subchannels), with picture quality easily 100 times better than I ever thought possible.

I don't use my cable connection for anything but to be able to get local TV on my Roku Spectrum application, as a cable account is a must to receive local channels on this app; the cable need not be connected directly to the TV, but the cable company must at least have, for your service address, a cable account on file. This is so the cable operator can pay for carrying an area's local TV channels, and is a requirement on all Roku installations with the Spectrum app anywhere in the US that has an option to stream local TV. In my area, the cable operator is Spectrum, formerly Time Warner, which does stream the locals (eight stations plus their subchannels), but other cable companies may not unless their own version of the Spectrum app, if available, has this capability.

The only problem I have with DTV right now, however, is I cannot get two important network affiliates on channels 8 and 19, using an indoor antenna. I have been told with the latter channel, the problem is its DTV assignment on a VHF channel (channel 10); with the former, the problem seems to be my sheer distance from the station's transmitter. I could get the missing channels with an outdoor antenna, but since my Roku seems to work so well with streaming video, I don't feel I need it.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

<snip>
The only problem I have with DTV right now, however, is I cannot get two important network affiliates on channels 8 and 19, using an indoor antenna. I have been told with the latter channel, the problem is its DTV assignment on a VHF channel (channel 10); with the former, the problem seems to be my sheer distance from the station's transmitter. I could get the missing channels with an outdoor antenna, but since my Roku seems to work so well with streaming video, I don't feel I need it.

Channel 8 (WJW/FOX) actually transmits on channel 8, which makes it a VHF-high station. It doesn't have as much power as its Detroit stablemate WJBK. It does benefit from having an omnidirectional pattern and infrequent co-channel interference.

Channel 10 (WOIO/CBS, and soon to be joined by ) is not as lucky. It is short-spaced to CFPL in London, Ontario. Worse, most of this path is over Lake Erie, which often causes serious interference (from tropospheric refraction) in the spring and summer. As a result, WOIO has less power, has a directional pattern with less signal to the north, and is prone to having its signal trounced by CFPL.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

<snip>
The only problem I have with DTV right now, however, is I cannot get two important network affiliates on channels 8 and 19, using an indoor antenna. I have been told with the latter channel, the problem is its DTV assignment on a VHF channel (channel 10); with the former, the problem seems to be my sheer distance from the station's transmitter. I could get the missing channels with an outdoor antenna, but since my Roku seems to work so well with streaming video, I don't feel I need it.

Channel 8 (WJW/FOX) actually transmits on channel 8, which makes it a VHF-high station. It doesn't have as much power as its Detroit stablemate WJBK. It does benefit from having an omnidirectional pattern and infrequent co-channel interference.

Channel 10 (WOIO/CBS, and soon to be joined by WUAB's programs) is not as lucky. It is short-spaced to CFPL in London, Ontario. Worse, most of this path is over Lake Erie, which often causes serious interference (from tropospheric refraction) in the spring and summer. As a result, WOIO has less power, has a directional pattern with less signal to the north, and is prone to having its signal trounced by CFPL.

You may be able to get CBS with a modest VHF-capable outdoor antenna on the chimney, or, if that is not possible, in the attic.

In my case, the Detroit stations are fifty miles away*. The ABC affiliate is 1000kW ERP on channel 41, while the Fox station is 27kW ERP on channel 7. The ABC is the easiest Detroit station to get on the indoor antenna, but the Fox station is the easiest to receive on the outdoor antenna, despite the massive disparity in ERP.

*the NBC affiliate is 52 miles, while one independent station is 63 miles and on a short tower. The latter is only receivable when tropospheric refraction is in.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Robert Grant

Channel 8 (WJW/FOX) actually transmits on channel 8, which makes it a VHF-high station. It doesn't have as much power as its Detroit stablemate WJBK. It does benefit from having an omnidirectional pattern and infrequent co-channel interference.

Channel 10 (WOIO/CBS, and soon to be joined by WUAB's programs) is not as lucky. It is short-spaced to CFPL in London, Ontario. Worse, most of this path is over Lake Erie, which often causes serious interference (from tropospheric refraction) in the spring and summer. As a result, WOIO has less power, has a directional pattern with less signal to the north, and is prone to having its signal trounced by CFPL.

You may be able to get CBS with a modest VHF-capable outdoor antenna on the chimney, or, if that is not possible, in the attic.

In my case, the Detroit stations are fifty miles away*. The ABC affiliate is 1000kW ERP on channel 41, while the Fox station is 27kW ERP on channel 7. The ABC is the easiest Detroit station to get on the indoor antenna, but the Fox station is the easiest to receive on the outdoor antenna, despite the massive disparity in ERP.

*the NBC affiliate is 52 miles, while one independent station is 63 miles and on a short tower. The latter is only receivable when tropospheric refraction is in.

I live in an apartment building, so using an outdoor antenna anywhere is out of the question (as my apartment is on the first floor of a two-story building, I do not have an attic, and there are no chimneys easily accessible on the roof of the building). Moreover, I am not about to get into any kind of discussion with my landlord as to the FCC's rules regarding outdoor television antennas in apartment buildings; he probably wouldn't understand or care about them.

Channel 19 has 3.720 megawatts of power, so there is (or should be) no excuse for it not reaching my area, even today (although that doesn't concern me, for reasons I will explain at the end of this paragraph). I do not believe for one second they decreased their output when they went digital, but the fact that most of their signal goes over Lake Erie may have something to do with my reception problems. However, all of this makes no difference to me, as I watch TV exclusively via streaming video, not OTA.

BTW, your explanations of why certain Detroit TV stations do not reach your area went right over my head. I have an amateur radio license, but I have been away from the hobby so long, except for Echolink, an amateur radio linking app, and 2-meter FM (due to lease restrictions forbidding me to put up any kind of antennas, and the changes that have occurred in the hobby since I started in 1972), I have forgotten most of what I used to know about signal propagation or whatever it is. Since television went digital in 2009, I haven't the foggiest idea of how my flat screen TV works--all I know (or care about) anymore is that it does work with my Roku streaming video player, VCR, and DVD player.

If you have such trouble as you mention getting certain Detroit television stations at your home, why are you bothering with antennas at all? I'd suggest getting cable or satellite, unless your area of Michigan is so far out in the boondocks even these services won't work. Many cable companies do not provide service to extreme fringe areas, and satellite signals reach only so far.

I am leaving all the technical explanations to the experts and engineers (think wa2ise) on VK. I am beginning to think VK has changed so much since I joined these forums 15 years ago (with all the present or former TV technicians/dealers and engineers now posting here) that I don't belong here anymore. One VK member in Arizona told me, in a recent reply to one of my posts, he is about ready to stop reading my messages anyway, so maybe it's just as well.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I live in an apartment building, so using an outdoor antenna anywhere is out of the question (as my apartment is on the first floor of a two-story building, I do not have an attic, and there are no chimneys easily accessible on the roof of the building). Moreover, I am not about to get into any kind of discussion with my landlord as to the FCC's rules regarding outdoor television antennas in apartment buildings; he probably wouldn't understand or care about them.

Channel 19 has 3.720 megawatts of power, so there is (or should be) no excuse for it not reaching my area, even today (although that doesn't concern me, for reasons I will explain at the end of this paragraph). I do not believe for one second they decreased their output when they went digital, but the fact that most of their signal goes over Lake Erie may have something to do with my reception problems. However, all of this makes no difference to me, as I watch TV exclusively via streaming video, not OTA.

BTW, your explanations of why certain Detroit TV stations do not reach your area went right over my head. I have an amateur radio license, but I have been away from the hobby so long, except for Echolink, an amateur radio linking app, and 2-meter FM (due to lease restrictions forbidding me to put up any kind of antennas, and the changes that have occurred in the hobby since I started in 1972), I have forgotten most of what I used to know about signal propagation or whatever it is. Since television went digital in 2009, I haven't the foggiest idea of how my flat screen TV works--all I know (or care about) anymore is that it does work with my Roku streaming video player, VCR, and DVD player.

If you have such trouble as you mention getting certain Detroit television stations at your home, why are you bothering with antennas at all? I'd suggest getting cable or satellite, unless your area of Michigan is so far out in the boondocks even these services won't work. Many cable companies do not provide service to extreme fringe areas, and satellite signals reach only so far.

I am leaving all the technical explanations to the experts and engineers (think wa2ise) on VK. I am beginning to think VK has changed so much since I joined these forums 15 years ago (with all the present or former TV technicians/dealers and engineers now posting here) that I don't belong here anymore. One VK member in Arizona told me, in a recent reply to one of my posts, he is about ready to stop reading my messages anyway, so maybe it's just as well.

I only get WTRF and WTOV since I live in the Ohio River Valley. If I was on top of a ridge or hill/mountain, I'd also pick up some Pittsburgh channels on rabbit ears but being down in a hole, my choices are limited. At least I get METV. BTW, don't leave the forum, I like to read your posts, they are interesting.