Get Ready for ATSC 3.0

[Titan1a]

I can see FM going full digital. It just did in Sweden. The end results are the listening audience has dropped from 10% to 25% as receivers are expensive for both autos and homes (is digital FM subject to Doppler problems like TV?). I listen regularly to AM (talk and music) especially at night by skip. I'll throw one hell of a fit should the "clowns" in DC take AM digital. AM is the "last resort" should all other broadcast communication fail. There are hundreds of millions of operable receivers. Change that and I'll pull the plug on all domestic broadcast wireless listening.

[Jeffhs]

Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet? I would think all that would be needed with these boxes would be for the software to be upgraded for the new standard; they upgrade themselves daily anyway (with a provision to manually upgrade if desired), so any new software will be in place as soon as it is needed.

I hardly think Roku will go out of business in five years (or whatever) just because some new TV standard has been enacted; as I said, when ATSC 3.0 is the new standard for TV broadcasting, taking over completely from ATSC 1.0, Roku's players will keep up with the technology, with little or no interaction required from viewers. Roku cannot afford to let itself become obsolete, as there are probably millions of these players in use worldwide.

Where this idea that "watching TV will be over" eventually, if Hollywood decides to encrypt video streams, ever got started is beyond me. Most Americans do not understand or care about the technical reasons for scrambling video streams or anything else connected with television, so if this ever happens, there will very likely be a huge backlash. Americans like their TV and do not want the government to mess with it.

I do not believe, either, that Hollywood will start encrypting video any time soon. Tell me this: If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video streams, will they be prepared for the sheer number of viewers who will complain loudly and incessantly? I realize that the change to ATSC 3.0 is nothing more than a huge cash grab, but good grief, this is too much. If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video, how on earth will they expect people to watch television, or whatever it may be called in five years, after the standards change? For that matter, will there even be an "ATSC 3.0" standard, say, ten years from now? I believe the FCC just might enact five new standards in that time, each rendering the previous one obsolete and requiring viewers to buy new TVs or converter boxes each time the standards change. People on fixed incomes won't be able to afford that, and will likely stop watching TV, which the networks, local stations, and Hollywood will not like in the least.

Good grief.

[centralradio]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet? I would think all that would be needed with these boxes would be for the software to be upgraded for the new standard; they upgrade themselves daily anyway (with a provision to manually upgrade if desired), so any new software will be in place as soon as it is needed.

I hardly think Roku will go out of business in five years (or whatever) just because some new TV standard has been enacted; as I said, when ATSC 3.0 is the new standard for TV broadcasting, taking over completely from ATSC 1.0, Roku's players will keep up with the technology, with little or no interaction required from viewers. Roku cannot afford to let itself become obsolete, as there are probably millions of these players in use worldwide.

Where this idea that "watching TV will be over" eventually, if Hollywood decides to encrypt video streams, ever got started is beyond me. Most Americans do not understand or care about the technical reasons for scrambling video streams or anything else connected with television, so if this ever happens, there will very likely be a huge backlash. Americans like their TV and do not want the government to mess with it.

I do not believe, either, that Hollywood will start encrypting video any time soon. Tell me this: If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video streams, will they be prepared for the sheer number of viewers who will complain loudly and incessantly? I realize that the change to ATSC 3.0 is nothing more than a huge cash grab, but good grief, this is too much. If Hollywood does decide to encrypt video, how on earth will they expect people to watch television, or whatever it may be called in five years, after the standards change? For that matter, will there even be an "ATSC 3.0" standard, say, ten years from now? I believe the FCC just might enact five new standards in that time, each rendering the previous one obsolete and requiring viewers to buy new TVs or converter boxes each time the standards change. People on fixed incomes won't be able to afford that, and will likely stop watching TV, which the networks, local stations, and Hollywood will not like in the least.

Good grief.

Again I dont know much about Roku but maybe there will be flash updates for them to continue working like you said. .If its streaming off the internet It has nothing to do with OTA signals.As far as I know.I do agree with you latter part of your statement.Yes its a game to keep the money ball rolling.Job security for some.Maybe I 'll get a Roku someday but I dont want to pay for any subscription packages from it.

[WISCOJIM]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Sorry, but you are still not answering my question.

You worry way too much over things you have no control over. Enjoy what you have now, and quit worrying over questions that have no answers.

.

[andy]

...

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Sorry, but you are still not answering my question. When ATSC 3.0 is enacted, will it affect streaming video services such as Roku, which is already a "converter box" and gets TV programming over the Internet?

The ATSC 3.0 standard only changes the way TV is broadcast over the air. On-line streaming is and has always been an entirely separate technology. NO change to the OTA standard will directly affect streaming. It's entirely separate technology.

However, there are peripheral effects. ATSC 3.0 includes features for auxiliary streams, for example. This could be data to make clickable icons as part of the program, or provide multiple selectable camera angles in sports. The question then becomes if the streaming services will carry any of the ancillary data, not if they will carry the main program or not, which will still be determined by economic/profit considerations, just as today a cable system may carry only a station's main program and not its subchannels. ATSC 3.0 also has very flexible trade-offs of data rate vs. signal robustness in the broadcast signal, so a single transmitter can emit multiple programs (like ATSC 1.0 does) except that the video resolution and signal robustness may be very different for a stream intended for mobile reception vs. an ultra high definition stream intended for use only with a good antenna. Again, when stations are broadcasting multiple streams, a streaming service may carry only certain ones, and might, for example, down-res ultra HD to regular HD.

Since the interface from the streaming service to your streaming box is QAM, carrying internet protocol data, and the interface from the box to your TV is a HDMI cable, neither of these is affected at all by the signal format that is broadcast through the air.

What gets transferred from over-the-air stations to streaming services will continue to be determined by business considerations, not technical ones.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

The ATSC 3.0 standard only changes the way TV is broadcast over the air. On-line streaming is and has always been an entirely separate technology. NO change to the OTA standard will directly affect streaming. It's entirely separate technology.

However, there are peripheral effects. ATSC 3.0 includes features for auxiliary streams, for example. This could be data to make clickable icons as part of the program, or provide multiple selectable camera angles in sports. The question then becomes if the streaming services will carry any of the ancillary data, not if they will carry the main program or not, which will still be determined by economic/profit considerations, just as today a cable system may carry only a station's main program and not its subchannels. ATSC 3.0 also has very flexible trade-offs of data rate vs. signal robustness in the broadcast signal, so a single transmitter can emit multiple programs (like ATSC 1.0 does) except that the video resolution and signal robustness may be very different for a stream intended for mobile reception vs. an ultra high definition stream intended for use only with a good antenna. Again, when stations are broadcasting multiple streams, a streaming service may carry only certain ones, and might, for example, down-res ultra HD to regular HD.

Since the interface from the streaming service to your streaming box is QAM, carrying internet protocol data, and the interface from the box to your TV is a HDMI cable, neither of these is affected at all by the signal format that is broadcast through the air.

What gets transferred from over-the-air stations to streaming services will continue to be determined by business considerations, not technical ones.

Thank you for your explanation of ATSC 3.0. I realize the standard will not take effect until at least five years from now, but I was simply concerned, much more than I should have been, that I might have to get a new TV when the standard does take over from the current one (ATSC 1.0). My present 19-inch flat screen is almost seven years old and is used daily; it has given me such excellent service (no repairs of any kind required in all that time, and it still gives me an excellent picture using my Roku player, LG DVD player and Panasonic VCR, to say nothing of standard HD TV broadcasts) that I am not even thinking of replacing it at this point in time. My flat screen TV is an Insignia, the house brand of Best Buy. These TVs are by no means top of the line in flat screens, but they are, IMO, very good sets, and I would not hesitate to buy another if I should need to replace mine or just want a larger screen down the road.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by Titan1a

AM is the "last resort" should all other broadcast communication fail. There are hundreds of millions of operable receivers. Change that and I'll pull the plug on all domestic broadcast wireless listening.

No kidding. Remember AM radio dials with CONELRAD markings? Anyone who has watched Christine has seen them. I rest my case.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

No kidding. Remember AM radio dials with CONELRAD markings? Anyone who has watched Christine has seen them. I rest my case.

I grew up in the Cold War era and remember very well the Conelrad icons on AM radio dials at 640 and 1240, also the Conelrad tests on radio and TV. One of my best (!) memories of the Cold War era (I'll never forget it!) is seeing a Conelrad test on TV in 1963. I was seven years old and just about jumped out of my skin the first time I saw the Conelrad symbol on our 21" Crosley TV. I did not realize this was only a Conelrad test, not "the real deal", and I ran through the living room down the long hall between there and the back of the house, scared out of my wits that the Russians were going to drop a huge bomb on our area of northeast Ohio and blow us all to kingdom come.

BTW, yes, I have seen the movie "Christine", and the tuning scale on the car's radio did in fact have the CD symbols at 640 and 1240, as did all car and home radios made between 1953 and 1963. I have a Zenith C-845 AM-FM table radio, made in 1960, that has these symbols (actually the letters "CD", not the icons themselves) at 640 and 1240 as well. These markings were placed by law on all AM radio dials so that people would not waste valuable time looking for the local Conelrad alert station when local stations went off the air per FCC regulations in effect at the time.

Another reminder of the Cold War era was a YouTube video of a Conelrad radio test gone awry, in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The station was WOWO-1190 and the DJ had just put on a record; suddenly, the sound faded to nothing and a station announcer was heard issuing a Conelrad alert. The alert turned out to have been erroneously broadcast over stations in the Fort Wayne area due to an unfortunate mixup. Do a Google search to see the entire story of this incident, which I am sure anyone who was living in the area at the time will never forget. I live 30 miles outside Cleveland, and grew up in a suburb 15 miles east of the city; however, I don't recall ever hearing any botched Conelrad alerts on local radio stations.

However, in the '70s, someone with a warped sense of humor came up with a musical version of the Conelrad (by then EBS, for Emergency Broadcast System) test, which was later banned and in fact was declared illegal. That the test was sung instead of being read from a script by an announcer was bad enough, but the worst part of that illegal Conelrad test was how it ended: "This concludes this test-----of the Emergency Broadcast System! Did you pass?" I believe that ending, and that the test was made into a singing jingle, was what finally got the jingle banned from American radio, and I don't blame the FCC for doing that, if in fact they did; after all, this was meant to be an emergency alert, meant to be read, not sung, by an announcer. IMO, whomever came up with the idea for this should have been arrested and jailed for attempting to make a mockery of the former Emergency Broadcast System. I'm sure if anyone ever tried to do this with today's Emergency Alert System (EAS), the person would in fact be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I grew up in the Cold War era and remember very well the Conelrad icons on AM radio dials at 640 and 1240, also the Conelrad tests on radio and TV. One of my best (!) memories of the Cold War era (I'll never forget it!) is seeing a Conelrad test on TV in 1963. I was seven years old and just about jumped out of my skin the first time I saw the Conelrad symbol on our 21" Crosley TV. I did not realize this was only a Conelrad test, not "the real deal", and I ran through the living room down the long hall between there and the back of the house, scared out of my wits that the Russians were going to drop a huge bomb on our area of northeast Ohio and blow us all to kingdom come.

Yeesh, I can certainly see why that would be your clearest Cold War era memory, that would have been like a branding iron to the brain.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

BTW, yes, I have seen the movie "Christine", and the tuning scale on the car's radio did in fact have the CD symbols at 640 and 1240, as did all car and home radios made between 1953 and 1963. I have a Zenith C-845 AM-FM table radio, made in 1960, that has these symbols (actually the letters "CD", not the icons themselves) at 640 and 1240 as well. These markings were placed by law on all AM radio dials so that people would not waste valuable time looking for the local Conelrad alert station when local stations went off the air per FCC regulations in effect at the time.

For sure, I'm just saying that Christine is likely to have introduced many people to the CONELRAD symbol, those people just wouldn't have recognized it at first. The symbol made it onto some early 1964 dials as well as deactivation came too late for design changes.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Another reminder of the Cold War era was a YouTube video of a Conelrad radio test gone awry, in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The station was WOWO-1190 and the DJ had just put on a record; suddenly, the sound faded to nothing and a station announcer was heard issuing a Conelrad alert. The alert turned out to have been erroneously broadcast over stations in the Fort Wayne area due to an unfortunate mixup. Do a Google search to see the entire story of this incident, which I am sure anyone who was living in the area at the time will never forget.

No kidding, and they would have at least needed a clean pair of shorts.

I don't know if nukes were a threat up here but my 1955 Pye radio scale lacks the CONELRAD symbol. It's a British design but was made at a plant in Ontario so who knows.

[centralradio]

I'm waiting for a day that all the DTV's and digital cable boxes become a brick when a special virus effects and corrupts the bios/flash chips in them and make them renderless and no fix available .That would put the numnuts that came up with the system on the spot. lease we have no issues if analog was still here.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by centralradio

I'm waiting for a day that all the DTV's and digital cable boxes become a brick when a special virus effects and corrupts the bios/flash chips in them and make them renderless and no fix available .That would put the numnuts that came up with the system on the spot. lease we have no issues if analog was still here.

Unlikely to ever happen. Most boxes are Linux based, Linux is hard to write viruses for and the cable companies are a secretive cabal of encryption and proprietary equipment fetishists....A virus would just about have to be an inside job.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Unlikely to ever happen. Most boxes are Linux based, Linux is hard to write viruses for and the cable companies are a secretive cabal of encryption and proprietary equipment fetishists....A virus would just about have to be an inside job.

I'm more worried about the OTA set-top boxes and the newer sets that have ATSC capability.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by centralradio

I'm waiting for a day that all the DTV's and digital cable boxes become a brick when a special virus effects and corrupts the bios/flash chips in them and make them renderless and no fix available .That would put the numnuts that came up with the system on the spot. lease we have no issues if analog was still here.

There's a B in numbnuts!

[centralradio]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

There's a B in numbnuts!

Sorry.Typo.Numbnuts.Blame the eggnog.LOL..............