Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Solid State CRT Televisions

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-08-2017, 04:15 PM
wa2ise's Avatar
wa2ise wa2ise is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 3,147
Modified a RCA XL100 CTC108 TV w CH CM7000 inside

Had an older RCA XL100 TV set that used a mechanical click twist tuber (not a varactor or synthesized tuner). And had an extra Channel Master CM7000 CECB with S-video output. I decided to make this TV into a digital ATSC receiver by removing its old tuner and installing the CECB inside it. What this would do for me is to create a color TV set with no cross luma cross chroma defects (no false color crawlies on fine luma detail, and no crawling or hanging B&W dots on color transitions in the video image). What I worked hard at RCA labs to reduce with the then broadcast analog NTSC TV signals. As the Channel master CM7000 provides S-video outputs (the luma and chroma never been merged together, thus no cross signal defects later). Downloaded the SAM's ($22 but was worth it to find my way around the TV circuits) and found the points to inject the S-video and the notch filter on the luma I'd want to remove. Paid attention to be sure the demodulated chroma would match the luma on the display screen CRT. Also had to figure out how to get the audio into the sound IF demod and audio amp chip.

And took a picture of the resulting display:

No cross luma or cross chroma problems, as these were never mixed together in the first place. Digital TV ATSC transmissions keep these signals separate.

The CTC108 chassis is a "hot chassis" design, so I used a special antenna RF coax connector that stops DC and low frequency AC, but lets pass 50MHz and above from the antenna to the box (which is now "hot" inside this modified set).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ctc108-cm7000front.jpg (98.7 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg no-cross-luma-chroma.jpg (100.0 KB, 263 views)
File Type: jpg modifiedCTC108.jpg (77.6 KB, 233 views)
File Type: jpg modifiedCTC108inside.jpg (39.3 KB, 93 views)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2017, 10:27 PM
dishdude's Avatar
dishdude dishdude is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 821
Nice work! Beautiful set with a beautiful picture.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-09-2017, 03:52 AM
Findm-Keepm's Avatar
Findm-Keepm Findm-Keepm is offline
Followin' the Rules...
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by wa2ise View Post
Had an older RCA XL100 TV set....
Which no doubt has one or more of your patents included? If so, how cool is that?!?!

For those that don't know, Bob is our resident Edison:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/res...&search=Search

Very nice work and informative too - thanks for the share!
__________________
Brian
USN RET (Avionics / Cal)
CET- Consumer Repair and Avionics ('88)
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since '79"

When fuses go to work, they quit!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-09-2017, 09:33 AM
old_coot88 old_coot88 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,541
Robert's modding/hotrodding adventures never cease to amaze.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-09-2017, 11:00 AM
old_tv_nut's Avatar
old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
See yourself on Color TV!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rancho Sahuarita
Posts: 7,184
Nice!

Did you have to amplify the luma or chroma, or did you get what's needed due to not terminating the outputs?
__________________
www.bretl.com
Old TV literature, New York World's Fair, and other miscellany
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:45 PM
broadcaster broadcaster is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 148
Beautiful job!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-09-2017, 06:10 PM
wa2ise's Avatar
wa2ise wa2ise is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 3,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
Nice!
Thanks all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
Did you have to amplify the luma or chroma, or did you get what's needed due to not terminating the outputs?
The luma and chroma signals were about the amplitude needed, unterminated. You can get away with doing that as any reflections bouncing off the unterminated far end of the connecting coax cable gets absorbed by the source termination (the 75 ohm resistor located at the signal source).

Ended up using an audio isolation transformer on the audio from the CM7000 CECB. The deflection yoke magnetic fields gets into everything, and this transformer breaks a loop to avoid excessive buzz in the sound. This loop includes the luma and chroma cables from the CECB to the chassis.

Used the TV's original volume control's power switch as a master power switch that unpowers the set and the CECB. I noticed that CM7000's can go into la-la-land if left in standby for weeks on end. If that should happen, I can turn off all power with this switch. Left the CECB's top off to allow for better cooling of its boards.


Added a plastic light pipe to direct the LED light from the CM7000 board to a point in the center where the VHF knob used to be. So I can see the status of the CM7000 board, green = on, yellow = standby and rest of set off, red = power up boot. Black = all off.

More screen shots showing a lack of cross chroma, below a pattern on the collar that gets cross chroma with a line comb:

And a lack of cross chroma (look at the close together strips to the left of "Fox Sports") you'd get with a notch filter:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rcactc108cm7000.jpg (126.3 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg rcactc108cm7000-nocombchroma.jpg (16.6 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg rcactc108cm7000-nocrosschroma.jpg (57.5 KB, 161 views)
__________________

Last edited by wa2ise; 09-10-2017 at 08:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-19-2017, 06:30 PM
TVTim's Avatar
TVTim TVTim is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 578
Nice!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-20-2017, 10:42 AM
DavGoodlin's Avatar
DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
Motorola Minion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Strasburg PA
Posts: 3,400
Amazing!! This beats broadcasting analog - using a STB that is great for DX'ing
__________________
"When resistors increase in value, they're worthless"
-Dave G
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-30-2018, 08:48 PM
wa2ise's Avatar
wa2ise wa2ise is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 3,147
Did some more on this set, specifically looking at and adjusting the matchup of the luma and the decoded chroma as presented on the CRT display. Found I needed an extra 90 nSec of delay on the luma to get the match looking better.

a football game down line graphic (green-yellow-green transitions), and below the football captain symbol on the uniform (blue-yellow-blue transitions), showing that the chroma-luma group delay timing is reasonably correct.

The setup I used between the CM7000 and the CTC108 circuit board (the video line driver circuit is to buffer the delay line from the unterminated feed to the CTC108 board)

__________________
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:09 PM
old_tv_nut's Avatar
old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
See yourself on Color TV!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rancho Sahuarita
Posts: 7,184
Allen Avionics delay line! - I totally forgot how many of those I used for lab projects at Zenith. Don't recall the exact prices, but it is surely worth more than the TV at this date.

Fun project!
__________________
www.bretl.com
Old TV literature, New York World's Fair, and other miscellany
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-01-2018, 03:02 PM
wa2ise's Avatar
wa2ise wa2ise is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 3,147
I'm waiting on some 30nsec analog delay lines to arrive.

100ohm, so I'd add a 22 ohm resistor in the luma line from the CM7000, and make the termination resistor 100 ohms instead of 75. As I need 90nSec, I'd use three of these in series.

Got the Allens for about $15 apiece on ebay, plus shipping.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ep123151.jpg (29.4 KB, 62 views)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:36 PM
wa2ise's Avatar
wa2ise wa2ise is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 3,147
Just got the delay lines, and installed them on the luma delay buffer amp. The delay likes are 100 ohm impedance, so I used a 24 Ohm resistor to the video source to make it 100 ohms. And the delay lines terminate with 100 ohms, then the video buffer line driver makes it 75 ohm impedance again.

and what this buffer/delay line board looks like (I mounted it on the back of the CM7000.

Inside the set now:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg newlumadelay.jpg (29.9 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg delaylines.jpg (44.4 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg modifiedCTC108inside.jpg (141.7 KB, 38 views)
__________________

Last edited by wa2ise; 10-04-2018 at 07:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.