Monkey Wards Model 62-465 Dial Stringing Diagram Needed

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

Point taken. Looks like the alkalines have come a long way since the old zinc/carbon types. A fresh new one oughta at least evoke some sign of life out of the radio.

Hmm, maybe that's my problem, the lantern battery I have is an Eveready Carbon-Zinc composition 6V lantern battery, and not a Duracell Alkaline 6V Lantern Battery...

[jr_tech]

Does the battery voltage drop considerably when you connect the radio?

jr

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Does the battery voltage drop considerably when you connect the radio?

jr

It doesn't power up at all, no dial light, no tube glow, no sound from the vibrator, nothing.

If what you posted earlier about the Duracell 6V lantern batteries being rated for 13 Ah, then couldn't I just get 4 of those Duracell 6V Lantern Batteries, parallel them together and get 52 Ah of power to juice up this radio?

[old_coot88]

What is the no-load voltage of the battery? Now, with the voltmeter still connected to the battery, connect it to the radio and turn the radio on. Does the voltage drop or stay the same?

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

What is the no-load voltage of the battery? Now, with the voltmeter still connected to the battery, connect it to the radio and turn the radio on. Does the voltage drop or stay the same?

The "no-load" voltage of the 6V Lantern Battery I have is around 5.5V and when I hooked the radio up to the battery and turned it on and measured the voltage the voltage was 1.5V on the battery so there was a voltage drop of about 4V on the battery.

Do you think the Vibrator could be bad? Also what's the purpose of those Vibrators in these old battery radios?

[old_coot88]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

...Also what's the purpose of those Vibrators in these old battery radios?

See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrat...r_power_supply
Typically used in rural areas lacking electrification, and universally in car radios up until transistorization around '58 or so.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

The "no-load" voltage of the 6V Lantern Battery I have is around 5.5V and when I hooked the radio up to the battery and turned it on and measured the voltage the voltage was 1.5V on the battery so there was a voltage drop of about 4V on the battery.

Do you think the Vibrator could be bad? Also what's the purpose of those Vibrators in these old battery radios?

A vibrator is used to convert DC to a form of square wave AC to operate the step-up transformer. It also has a set of commutating contacts to convert AC back to DC. Eliminates the need for a rectifier tube, really old technology.
The vibrator's probably stuck and will act as a dead short.
You'll go broke, fooling around with lantern batteries to power this set!

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

A vibrator is used to convert DC to a form of square wave AC to operate the step-up transformer. It also has a set of commutating contacts to convert AC back to DC. Eliminates the need for a rectifier tube, really old technology.
The vibrator's probably stuck and will act as a dead short.
You'll go broke, fooling around with lantern batteries to power this set!

The lantern batteries are just for testing purposes, if I can get this radio functioning reliably then I'll buy those batteries that init4fun suggested, but I dont want to use rechargeable batteries on a radio that has several potential shorts in the power supply, and risk ruining them and then have $30 go down the toilet for nothing.

[old_coot88]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

...I dont want to use nonrechargeable batteries on a radio that has several potential shorts in the power supply, and risk ruining them and then have $30 go down the toilet for nothing.

Tell you what - assuming you have a trickle charger or some way to keep it topped up, I will send you the near-new battery described back in post# 14, for 35 bucks, shipping included. Just glad to see it have a good home. Just PM me with shipping address and it will be on its way, the $35 on your honor.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

Tell you what - assuming you have a trickle charger or some way to keep it topped up, I will send you the near-new battery described back in post# 14, for 35 bucks, shipping included. Just glad to see it have a good home. Just PM me with shipping address and it will be on its way, the $35 on your honor.

Ok, will do. I did manage to get the vibrator out of the radio, but I'm unsure of how to open it to check the condition of the internals.

[old_coot88]

Probably no need to open the vibrator at this stage, as the radio probably has low time on it. However there is one component that will definitely need replacing once you get the vibrator running. That's the Buffer Capacitor. It's connected directly across the secondary of the transformer. Its purpose is to prevent arcing/pitting of the vibtr contacts. Back in the day we always changed the Buffer out of hand with every vibtr replacement. And it's guaranteed to be leaky after decades sitting. Not sure what value yours is, but it'll be rated at 1600V or higher.

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

Ok, will do. I did manage to get the vibrator out of the radio, but I'm unsure of how to open it to check the condition of the internals.

Don't open it yet .....

The thing here is, the vibrator may be fine, the fact that your 6V battery became a one volt battery under load means that you weren't providing the radio with the power it needs. Despite what the ratings say I still don't believe a 6V lantern battery could ever provide the "inrush" power needed to start the vibrator. As you may know about incandescent bulb theory, for a couple of milliseconds upon being powered up the cold filament draws MAD amps, way more than you'd ever believe, to heat the filament to white hot where it's resistance goes way UP and the inrush current subsides. With your vibrator, upon initial application of power the stopped contacts that haven't yet started moving are presenting the transformer's primary winding as an almost dead short to your power source , a microsecond or two later once the vibrator starts that initial inrush of current it took to get the vibrator buzzing subsides to the normal running current of the device (which of course is MUCH lower than the starting current).

Old Coot has given you one Hell of a generous offer and I wouldn't be surprised if that battery starts that ol vibrator, if not, only then, provided all the tube heaters and pilot light are on, if it don't start, THEN contemplate taking it apart. As to your fear of hurting something by using the rechargeable battery, remember, the 4A fuse is there to save the day if there are any hard short circuits in the radio.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

Probably no need to open the vibrator at this stage, as the radio probably has low time on it. However there is one component that will definitely need replacing once you get the vibrator running. That's the Buffer Capacitor. It's connected directly across the secondary of the transformer. Its purpose is to prevent arcing/pitting of the vibtr contacts. Back in the day we always changed the Buffer out of hand with every vibtr replacement. And it's guaranteed to be leaky after decades sitting. Not sure what value yours is, but it'll be rated at 1600V or higher.

The buffer cap in my unit (C5) is a .005 MFD 1200 VDC unit.
I do have several 1600 VDC film caps that were for use in TVs and VCRs.

Is the capacitance rating crucial in this application? If not I have a .0082 MFD 1600 VDC Film capacitor that I could use in place of the old .005 MFD 1200 unit.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by init4fun

Don't open it yet .....

The thing here is, the vibrator may be fine, the fact that your 6V battery became a one volt battery under load means that you weren't providing the radio with the power it needs. Despite what the ratings say I still don't believe a 6V lantern battery could ever provide the "inrush" power needed to start the vibrator. As you may know about incandescent bulb theory, for a couple of milliseconds upon being powered up the cold filament draws MAD amps, way more than you'd ever believe, to heat the filament to white hot where it's resistance goes way UP and the inrush current subsides. With your vibrator, upon initial application of power the stopped contacts that haven't yet started moving are presenting the transformer's primary winding as an almost dead short to your power source , a microsecond or two later once the vibrator starts that initial inrush of current it took to get the vibrator buzzing subsides to the normal running current of the device (which of course is MUCH lower than the starting current).

Old Coot has given you one Hell of a generous offer and I wouldn't be surprised if that battery starts that ol vibrator, if not, only then, provided all the tube heaters and pilot light are on, if it don't start, THEN contemplate taking it apart. As to your fear of hurting something by using the rechargeable battery, remember, the 4A fuse is there to save the day if there are any hard short circuits in the radio.

Agree...the vibrator may be ok, don’t open it yet.

Agree...high inrush current may be the problem, BUT a 6 volt lantern battery that measures 5.5 volts with no load is very tired. Results may be different with a fresh alkaline battery.

Agree... OC’s offer is very generous, big thumbs up for OC.

jr

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Agree...the vibrator may be ok, don’t open it yet.

Agree...high inrush current may be the problem, BUT a 6 volt lantern battery that measures 5.5 volts with no load is very tired. Results may be different with a fresh alkaline battery.

Agree... OC’s offer is very generous, big thumbs up for OC.

jr

I sent old coot a pm but haven't heard back from him yet. I actually paralleled 3 6V lantern batteries together and hooked them up to the radio and turned the radio on and measured the voltage and the voltage was around 5.8V with the radio on and the tubes did light up, but there was no audio and I didn't hear anything from the vibrator.

I did then return the 2 Duracell lantern batteries to the hardware store and got my money back, which I'll use for the battery OC is offering me.

I have an old 1960s vintage 6/12 V battery charger that was my grandfathers that I can use to recharge the battery that OC is offering me (which I did accept his offer, but I haven't heard back from him yet).