French color TVs 1969-1970

[Telecolor 3007]

So in 1967-1972 French colour television had "R.C.A." cameras?

[kf4rca]

Very likely. Its only simple component changes that would need to be made to convert NTSC to PAL. The early cameras were built at the component level- resistors, capacitors, and transistors. IC's hadn't come along yet.
SECAM is a transmission standard. Studio equipment is PAL.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by kf4rca

Very likely. Its only simple component changes that would need to be made to convert NTSC to PAL. The early cameras were built at the component level- resistors, capacitors, and transistors. IC's hadn't come along yet.
SECAM is a transmission standard. Studio equipment is PAL.

I don't know if this was still the case by 1967, but IIRC the TK41 sent RGB video to It's racks so the camera head it's self would only need changes to it's internal sweep timebase and the rack equipment supporting it could be redesigned/modified for converting RGB to PAL.

[jhalphen]

Hi to all,

@Telecolor 3007 :

French color TV, early years, 1967-1972 :
- Studio : Thomson CSF
- ENG News + U-Matic recorder : RCA, Sony, Thomson, Ikegami

some English cameras : Marconi, Link, Bosch-Fernseh

I never saw an RCA TK-41 in France, by the late 60s lighter more modern cameras were available.

The state controlled channels Antenne-2, first with color in 1967 then the first channel (much later) + the SFP (Société Française de Production) all used Thomson studio cameras, pretty much a "must buy French products" policy.

Studio work was very early on done in RGB as even simple effects are nearly impossible to do in SECAM because of the constant FM color information.

When private TV finally started in 1986, most studio work was in PAL with final transcoding for broadcasting.

When component Betacam appeared, a lot of studio work switched to all-component production thus avoiding PAL to SECAM transcoding artifacts.

One must keep in mind that studio cameras evolved slowly, ample lighting was no problem and weight was a secondary concern with fixed location equipment.

For field work, light weight & economic battery/power requirements made the users eager to embrace every new model as technology advanced.

Best Regards
jhalphen

[old_tv_nut]

I believe the color cameras after the TK-41 also sent RGB to the CCU (Camera Control Unit) as you surmise, but really, if the chroma encoding circuit design had to be changed from NTSC to PAL, what difference did it make where it was located?

By the way, the TK-41 used separate coaxial cables for baseband R,G,B. Later cameras used triax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triaxial_cable
I believe this still carried R,G,B signals, but frequency-multiplexed on RF carriers so they could be sent via a single conductor.

[Telecolor 3007]

"Bosch"/"Fernseh" wheren't German or Dutch. "Fernseh" was a colaraboration between "Bosch" and "Philips". In Romania we used cameras, black and white and color made by these companies.
I wonder if the image pick-up tubes from "Thompson" where French made or import made.
I've seen some import color tv sets where avaible.

[jhalphen]

Hi to all,

@Telecolor 3007 : Bosch-Fernseh is a 100% German company, they started in the 1920s. They might have cooperated with Philips for certain products but otherwise were in direct competition, especially for cameras.

When the Plumbicon came out (a Philips invention) everybody adopted it as it offered really superior color pickup performance.

Thomson (Please no "p") color cameras used Thomson made tubes.
Some tubes were interchangeable with other makers (EEV, Brimar...) as they were produced under RCA license.
In the B&W era (50s-60s) RCA tubes such as the Orthicon & image-Orthicon were of US origin. Europe was still rebuilding in the aftermath of WWII and did not possess the sophisticated technology necessary to produce tubes as complicated as the Image-Orthicon.

Best Regards
jhalphen

[Telecolor 3007]

If "Thomson" made color pick-up tubes so early it's meaning that French electronics industry was more developed than I thought. Probably it was costly to make things for such an quyte tiny marker (compared to Western-Germany and even Great Britan (United Kingdom) ), but you made it. I'm curios if any of those cameras still survives today.
But the picture tubes from the colour tvs, in 1967-1972 where French made (at least one of them?).

1st 3 models of Romanian tv sets where assambled using "C.S.F." components. But they where extremly rare... so rare that most people think that 'Naţional' V.S. 43-614 (using "National-Panasonic/Matushita" components) where the 1st one.
Here is the very 1st model, V.S. 43-611 (there where V.S. 54-612 and V.S. 43-613 - some one haves one): https://evenimentemuzeale.ro/evenime...at-in-romania/ I wonder what is the French model.
Off-topic: some Bucharest made trams (streetcars) used "Thomson"-"Huston" controllers. I've seen two restored one with such controllers.

[kf4rca]

Don't forget the Russians were building cameras too:
https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/soviet/sovthumb.htm

[Telecolor 3007]

I know that. But U.S.S.R was big country.

[Telecolor 3007]

Here is an intresting article about the production of tv in France an it's cost: https://ebha.org/ebha2007/pdf/Gaillard.pdf

[Telecolor 3007]

Oh, "Thomson" had a pretty decent sound on '80's made tv sets.
I would like to see a French color tv set that haves at least 10 tubes into it.
In Romania, in 1967 only Bucharest still had 120 Volts and only on parts of the city (usually the central and semicentral area). Since electrification rate was low in pre-communist Romania, it was easy to get to the 220 Volts - 50 Hertz (Cycles) the whole low voltage network. Complete tranisition to 220 Volts of Bucharest... 1976.

[kf4rca]

US homes have both 120 and 240 in them. Its 3 wires from the pole. The pole transformer is 240 volts center tapped. The center tap is connected to earth ground.
Most devices in a US home are 120. Heavy power devices are 240 such as electric clothes dryer, hot water heater, air conditioner, electric stove.
Most post war (WW2) homes were wired that way from the beginning.
NOW, the commercial/ industrial industries use a variety of voltages. 277 is common for large lighting systems.
208 (3 phase, 4 wires) is used for large motor devices, air conditioners, etc.
And then there is 460 (3 phase) that's used for high power radio and tv transmitters and such.

[Telecolor 3007]

Very intresting. I will open a separate topic (thread) for it.
In Bucharest we had 3 phase - 208 Volts. For electric cooking machines, if you wanted to install in a house. You could get 220 Volts too, but they dindn't made the network that way. Some people got 220 Volts using 2 phases, trough all that it was against the regulations.
It was a good thing that French tv sets had transformers. Better protection.

[kf4rca]

Here's a typical 120/240 electric panel in a US home.