I'm about to lose interest in record players

[radiotvnut]

Mainly due to the bad luck I've been having with cartridges/needles.

In the past, I'd always try to find NOS cartridges for my record player repairs and I quickly got fed up with just about every NOS cartridge having some sort of age related problem. So, I made my mind up to stick with current production cartridges.

Evidently, the new ones are often s**t, as well. I recently picked up a '63 Westinghouse console that used a variant of the Garrard autoslim changer, fitted with a Euphonics U8 ceramic cartridge. The original cartridge was bad; so, I replaced it with a Pfanstiehl P228 (Varco TN8) cartridge. When I tested it with a polystyrene 45, it instantly wrecked the grooves with one play. There's nothing like hearing "pppsssttt-pppsssttt" coming out of the speakers, along with the grooves visibly being wrecked. I made sure the cartridge was seated correctly and tried it at various tracking forces; but, no change. The only thing that worked was using a half used up needle out of some kiddie player. I ordered another new pfanstiehl needle and it also wrecked the record. I know these cartridges are not very gentle; but, they should not destroy a record on first play. Hell, even a modern crosley is not that brutal.

Then, we move to the '65 Magnavox. I replaced the needle in it's original EV cartridge and thought all was well, until I listened closer and discovered the left channel was weak. It turned out to be a bad cartridge and I replaced it with a current Tetrad cartridge. Well, guess what? The changer has no tracking force adjustment and it was tracking too light. I bent the spring a little and now I think it's too heavy. It's also gouging polystyrene 45's; which, may be due to the tracking weight. It did not gouge 45's with the original cartridge.

I know that I'm tired of spending money on cartridges, only to end up with crap that does not work well and I'm about to the point of losing interest in record players. I need to do what all the serious audio guys advise and stick to magnetic cartridge equipped turntables and stop wastng money on all this other junk. I might feel different if someone actually made ceramic cartridges that were worth a flip.

I know the best solution would be to convert to a magnetic cartridge; but, that can sometimes get quite expensive and some of those old changers won't work well with a magnetic cartridge.

[bob91343]

You can build a preamplifier for a magnetic cartridge with one IC and mount it in a very tiny box. If you build a dozen of them you can use them every time you replace a cartridge.

The limiting factors are whether it will fit into the arm, and whether you can reduce the tracking force sufficiently.

If you could find some good styli, you could build your own ceramic/crystal cartridges. There is info on the web how to do that.

[jr_tech]

Are cartridges like this worth considering, or are they just cheap junk? Specs don't look too bad, but who knows?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50s-lot-...item19db109e30

IMHO, I see the hobby as split into two (perhaps incompatible) parts:
1. Restoring vintage consumer record players to operational condition.
2. Playing vintage records for enjoyment.

I would *NOT* be playing well preserved quality vintage records on garden variety consumer record players... My vintage Sheffield LPs are not even going to get near one of those devices.

not affiliated,
jr

[Chad Hauris]

I used to collect cheaper consumer tube record players too but I quit getting them, as for hardly any more repair labor I could fix a higher quality unit and get much better results. I did find a modern Pfanstiehl ceramic which is working great in a 50's Magnavox console and has almost as good a sound as a magnetic but I can't remember what type it was.

Stanton 400 v3 magnetic cartridges work great in high tracking force applications which used crystal cartridges such as Rockola and Wurlitzer jukeboxes and old turntables which have the proper mounting spacing for magnetic. I just use a solid state phono preamp and get gentle handling of the records and good sound and these cartridges can stand up to the heavier tonearms although some counterweighting is occasionally needed. You can use a 78 RPM stylus in them too for 78-only applications.
These are relatively high output too (although you will still need a preamp).

[radiotvnut]

I've had time to cool off and calm down a bit; but, I've now started being more selective about what I bring home. Yesterday, I saw a mid '50's Silvertone suitcase portable at the flea market and it's covering was very dirty and the latches/hinges were rusty. When I saw the $35 price tag, I decided to leave it there. I agree with Chad in that I can spend basically the same amount of labor (and money) to fix up a nicer model. It seems like most of the suitcase portables that I find are in filthy "barn fresh" condition and the outer case covering is often difficult-to-impossible to clean.

Speaking of Magnavox, I have a big mid '50's mono console with two 12" speakers and a big 4x6V6 amp and I'm sure that one will rattle the windows when it's done. I don't know what cartridge is currently installed; but, I will certainly want to upgrade it to something better (possibly a magnetic).

[maxhifi]

I have fixed up several old record players, and after the novelty of having it working wears off, I almost never use them for listening to records... a hi-fi turntable just does the same job so much better, and is kind to the records. I have a mid 60s Thorens I use for most of my listening, and its position has never been threatened by anything else I've come across.

[zeno]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

I've had time to cool off and calm down a bit; but, I've now started being more selective about what I bring home. Yesterday, I saw a mid '50's Silvertone suitcase portable at the flea market and it's covering was very dirty and the latches/hinges were rusty. When I saw the $35 price tag, I decided to leave it there. I agree with Chad in that I can spend basically the same amount of labor (and money) to fix up a nicer model. It seems like most of the suitcase portables that I find are in filthy "barn fresh" condition and the outer case covering is often difficult-to-impossible to clean.

Speaking of Magnavox, I have a big mid '50's mono console with two 12" speakers and a big 4x6V6 amp and I'm sure that one will rattle the windows when it's done. I don't know what cartridge is currently installed; but, I will certainly want to upgrade it to something better (possibly a magnetic).

Look for the old KLH portables. Mag cartridge, common Pickering
grey ( V15 cart ? ) and sound fantastic. Zeniths with 2G
changers also good.
73 Zeno

[Eric H]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Are cartridges like this worth considering, or are they just cheap junk? Specs don't look too bad, but who knows?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50s-lot-...item19db109e30


not affiliated,
jr

Those look like the cartridges used in Willies RCA low riders and also in every Crosley Retro player made, they don't sound too bad but the output is pretty low (1/2 volt?) so they don't work too well in low end, one tube amplifiers.

[technicolor]

while we're talking about turntables RTN, can u id this from a late sixties possibly early seventies sylvania combo?


thanks in advance

[jr_tech]

Looks like a Dual, perhaps a 1010:
http://dual-reference.com/tables/1010.htm
From: http://dual-reference.com/tableinx.htm
Decent quality turntable, for sure.

jr

[Jon A.]

Why would age cause a cartridge to go bad anyway? Kind of clueless about record players here. For a while I just knew to avoid the above mentioned Crosleys, and whatever other names those crappy mini-consoles are made under. It's as if a bunch of ordinary consumer-grade record players and some kiddie players were put into a huge blender and that's the junk that resulted.

[radiotvnut]

That is a Dual and Sylvania used that brand of turntable in their higher end units.

Cartridges go bad when they absorb moisture that causes the crystal element to fail. Another problem is that the rubber suspension will become hard. The element in ceramic cartridges are not as likely to fail; but, the suspension can still become hard. Magnetic cartridges seem to hold up OK over time.

[egrand]

Ditto on a Dual 1010. It has the spindle changer that can be removed. Notice there's no arm needed to hold the records.

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

Evidently, the new ones are often s**t, as well.

Ya I can imagine they are and Im sorry your having problems.....

You shouldnt give up this beautiful platform for these issues! -- I have gotton quite frusterated with some records I bought from a thrift store skipping so much! (I think it may just be an anti-skating adjustment I should do but I havent yet) But I write it off as being part of the HOBBY.. (Thankfully most of the records I have bought are pretty clean (Not alot of noise,etc))


Good luck Radiotvnut -- I know how frusterating it is!!

[KentTeffeteller]

The older Magnavox changers can accept a magnetic cartridge easily. The Stanton 400 or the Shure M 44-C are superb candidates or even the M 44-7 (your Micromatic can track at 2.5 grams easily).