K-cars

[dishdude]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

The 2.2 probably is the best K motor, the 2.5 seemed rather problematic to me.

Did you mean 2.6? The 2.5 is just a 2.2 with a larger bore and longer stroke with a balance shaft added. The 2.5 adds a lot of low end torque, and the balance shaft really smooths the engine out.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by dishdude

Did you mean 2.6? The 2.5 is just a 2.2 with a larger bore and longer stroke with a balance shaft added. The 2.5 adds a lot of low end torque, and the balance shaft really smooths the engine out.

I meant 2.5, but I only have experience with one car so equipped and none with the 2.2 so I'm not really a good barometer. The head gasket cracked letting coolant into the oil, the timing belt broke and it blew a handful of frost plugs but never suffered any major damage. It was rather loud for a gas engine, noisy lifters maybe? It seemed sluggish sometimes but I reckon that had a lot to do with its temperamental 3-speed slushbox. If I recall correctly I often had to let up on the accelerator briefly to get out of low gear. I used to drive on a long stretch of level road and make a left at the end to go uphill; it wasn't very steep but that's when I would be mashing it and still be unable to keep up with traffic, no idea why.

Edit: Apparently the engine was getting tired, it sounded just like the one in this Aries (startup at 6:10).

[DavGoodlin]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

The 2.2 probably is the best K motor, the 2.5 seemed rather problematic to me.

I doubt your uncle's Monaco was a '74 because it's a model made before catalytic converters so it runs good on regular gas. For '75 I believe only the Royal Monaco came with hideaway headlamps, and all '76 models have them.

+2 on that 2-2, Jon - My '78 Celica GT 5-spd with a 2.2 could not catch the Mopars, which had an edge for some reason My Dad traded a 1975 Rabbit 1.5 L for an '81 Horizon with 1.7L 4cyl with a horrible-shifting 4spd, (VW or Peugot-built IIRC) and what a pooch that was.

That '81 was involved in 4 accidents, last one a sideswipe requiring half a body from a junkyard. Being Orange I guess it was hard to see. They just would not total it, so it was traded for the 2.2L in the '85 Omni, which had an automatic, which he always shut the car off leaving it in "D" with the parking brake on, being used to manuals. Even with a 3-spd auto, the 2.2 could spin the tires on dryypavement, with the expected torque-steer of MoPar's front wheel drive.

For my first ride, and under $1000, all I had to chose from were gas hogs nobody wanted in 1980. I had a choice of a 76 Monaco with a 360- probably a lean-burn 2bbl; A 75 LeSabre with 350 2bbl. Since both were smog-sleds, I opted for the 73 Fury II 400-2bbl - the small-town's unmarked squad car, dark green. I was not sorry.

I know of a few 2.5 Liter 4 cyl Caravans turning out to be reliable beaters. Cheap parts is one reason.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by DavGoodlin

+2 on that 2-2, Jon - My '78 Celica GT 5-spd with a 2.2 could not catch the Mopars, which had an edge for some reason My Dad traded a 1975 Rabbit 1.5 L for an '81 Horizon with 1.7L 4cyl with a horrible-shifting 4spd, (VW or Peugot-built IIRC) and what a pooch that was.

That '81 was involved in 4 accidents, last one a sideswipe requiring half a body from a junkyard. Being Orange I guess it was hard to see. They just would not total it, so it was traded for the 2.2L in the '85 Omni, which had an automatic, which he always shut the car off leaving it in "D" with the parking brake on, being used to manuals. Even with a 3-spd auto, the 2.2 could spin the tires on dryypavement, with the expected torque-steer of MoPar's front wheel drive.

For my first ride, and under $1000, all I had to chose from were gas hogs nobody wanted in 1980. I had a choice of a 76 Monaco with a 360- probably a lean-burn 2bbl; A 75 LeSabre with 350 2bbl. Since both were smog-sleds, I opted for the 73 Fury II 400-2bbl - the small-town's unmarked squad car, dark green. I was not sorry.

I know of a few 2.5 Liter 4 cyl Caravans turning out to be reliable beaters. Cheap parts is one reason.

A guy in the building I used to live in had a '79 Celica with a 5-speed. I think he had a second set of keys so he would sometimes leave it running with the windows up and the doors locked. In spite of that it still got pinched one day. He got it back but not quite in the same condition.

I didn't know the Omni/Horizon came with a 1.7L as standard equipment. Now it's easier to understand why they were named 1982's lemon of the year. A quick check on Wikipedia reveals that the 1.7 and the 4-speed were VW-made.

Ouch, hopefully that 1985 Omni was never parked on steep hills. I wouldn't want to risk leaving a slushbox in gear while parked. I never knew torque-steer was a problem with FWD Mopars; I guess I was just extra careful in slippery conditions. As I recall it was even more of a problem with GM's FWD X-body cars.

Oh yeah, RWD Mopar with a cop motor with a 400 cubic inch plant, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks and made before catalytic converters, the logical choice in my opinion.

Little wonder the Blues Brothers were able to beat the heat to Chicago.

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by DavGoodlin

which he always shut the car off leaving it in "D" with the parking brake on, being used to manuals.

tfw when no ignition-shift interlock.

Originally Posted by DavGoodlin

I had a choice of a 76 Monaco with a 360- probably a lean-burn 2bbl

You know, I've only ever been under the hood of just ONE lean-burn vehicle (outside of a junkyard, anyway), and I never had a chance to work on the motor, because it ran just fine. It was a 70-something Dodge pickup, with a slant-6. I've read a lot about the Lean Burn™ system, and it's quite fascinating. But I'd really like to work on one to actually get a feel for it. It was basically a computer controlled engine, except carbureted, and no, the carb was not at all controlled by the computer. It handled ignition only. The only problems I can speculate about the system would be A: it's a 'computer' from the '70s, before computers were really a thing, and B: they put the damn computer in the hottest place they could pick - right on top of the engine.

Chrysler has a long proud history of technological achievements, but putting a computer on top of a hot engine was not one of their brightest moments. Though to be perfectly fair, many carmakers today continue that practice. Mostly GM.

Originally Posted by Jon A.

Oh yeah, RWD Mopar with a cop motor with a 400 cubic inch plant, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks and made before catalytic converters...

Huehuehuehue.

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

Even Ford's 1.6L I4 is technically a hemi but fortunately I haven't seen any fender tags announcing this.

Prob because 'Hemi' is a Chrysler-owned trademark lol

Originally Posted by Jon A.

The 2.2 probably is the best K motor, the 2.5 seemed rather problematic to me.

Originally Posted by dishdude

Did you mean 2.6? The 2.5 is just a 2.2 with a larger bore and longer stroke with a balance shaft added. The 2.5 adds a lot of low end torque, and the balance shaft really smooths the engine out.

^ This.

Originally Posted by Username1

My uncle's last Chrysler was a 74-76? Dodge Monaco like the ones on Blues Brothers, and it kinda came apart like in the movie, just not all at once. It use to take a lot of cranking to get it running, it had no power, 6mpg, lights and horn were active together at times, turn signals came with audio accompany. It was the worst car he had, he followed that with a 4WD Eagle, AMC I think at the time.

It's a shame that some cars get a bad rap just because nobody bothered fixing them. It sounds like it only needed a carb cleaning/adjustment and some ground wires fixed. As if those were uncommon problems in the 70s... >_>

Originally Posted by mgross0

Who says unicorns don't exist? I saw an AMC Eagle rolling down Greenway Parkway last week, and was shocked by how 'good' it looked. At least it was distinctive and had personality, which most modern cars lack.

I really like the original Eagles. I mean... they're basically a car bolted onto a Jeep CJ chassis. You can legit go rock crawling with a stock Eagle. A buddy of mine in college once asked if I wanted to ride in his friend's 'AMG' as he was going to get an oil change. I shrugged, and went along because I had nothing better to do. I kept looking around in the parking lot for a Mercedes, but I was pleasantly surprised that the dude hopped in an AMC Eagle! I think my friend was a bit disappointed lol.

Originally Posted by Username1

Same kinda story for GM and using known
bad or under designed bolts in the early Quad-4's. They all knowingly made
and sold crap for way too long....

A lot of 70s cars sucked, because of auto factory workers' union problems. Strikes and all that.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

Even Ford's 1.6L I4 is technically a hemi but fortunately I haven't seen any fender tags announcing this.

Originally Posted by MadMan

Prob because 'Hemi' is a Chrysler-owned trademark lol

And "SS" is a GM-owned trademark but that didn't stop Ford from using it on some first-year Escorts; only the resulting lawsuit did. Geez, grownups today, they're not allowed to kill each other one on one so most of them do it in court, shameful.

[mgross0]

Who says unicorns don't exist? I saw an AMC Eagle rolling down Greenway Parkway last week, and was shocked by how 'good' it looked. At least it was distinctive and had personality, which most modern cars lack.

[Username1]

The Dodge Omni and their variants were powered by VW parts. And back then
Consumer Reports, if I'm not mistaken released one of their tests to the TV news
media that showed that if you were moving at highway speeds and took the steering
wheel and twisted to to one side and released it, the car would on it's own swing wildly
from right to left until it spun out. Tests on other cars showed that they would have
the steering wheel dampen out the flick and return to a center position, provided
you were still on the pavement. An unrealistic hazard in my opinion. I wonder
why the VW's that shared the drive train did not suffer from that symptom?

Maybe because of Chrysler's fun single finger power power steering, where a good
flick of the wheel with one finger often spun it from center to one of the far locks
quite easily.

The early Lean Burns were spark only, the last runs had feedback carburetors too.
But by the time FBC's came into the mix they had to get away from the name Lean Burn.

Speaking of no shift locks, my '86 Prelude has no shift lock, no signs it was defeated
by the previous owner either....


.

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by Username1

The early Lean Burns were spark only, the last runs had feedback carburetors too.
But by the time FBC's came into the mix they had to get away from the name Lean Burn.

Neat.

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Dodge may have used VW engines, but I doubt they would have gone VW on the suspension and steering in a K car.

No, that was the Omni only. The Omni was pre-k car. I don't think the VW engine was ever offered in a K car. To the best of my knowledge, the K cars were entirely in-house, at least originally. Ah, the good old days.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by MadMan

Neat.



No, that was the Omni only. The Omni was pre-k car. I don't think the VW engine was ever offered in a K car. To the best of my knowledge, the K cars were entirely in-house, at least originally. Ah, the good old days.

There's a lot of information about the evolution of the various Mopar platforms on the website "Allpar". I generally follow it pretty close.

[mgross0]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

There's a lot of information about the evolution of the various Mopar platforms on the website "Allpar". I generally follow it pretty close.

The LH cars were the last of the 'in house' designs, even though the company was being controlled my Mercedes at the time. My understanding is that, in spite of what people claim, the current LX cars are really the old LH platform modified to accept the improved Mercedes suspension components and are not merely a warmed over Benz chasis. Of course, the dreaded NAG1 tranny is a Benz unit, and we all know how craptastic those things can be.

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by mgross0

The LH cars were the last of the 'in house' designs, even though the company was being controlled my Mercedes at the time. My understanding is that, in spite of what people claim, the current LX cars are really the old LH platform modified to accept the improved Mercedes suspension components and are not merely a warmed over Benz chasis. Of course, the dreaded NAG1 tranny is a Benz unit, and we all know how craptastic those things can be.

The LH cars were introduced in 93. I had a 94 Concorde, really loved that car. Huge, absolutely huge car for a fwd. I mean, you got in it, you were a mile away from your passenger, and enough headroom for Abe Lincoln with his hat on. Definitely prefer the interior to a Cadillac Deville, also fwd in roughly the same category. Anyhow, Mercedes takeover was from 98 to 08. And there are small but notable similarities between the LH and LX platforms. I'd say it's really an evolution. That having been said, they maintained their own teams of engineers and designers, I don't think it's entirely fair to say 'their last in-house design.' Maybe their last design that didn't involve Mercedes parts in any way, perhaps. Course there was a brief reprise when they were privately held and not associated with any other company. But Fiat had to ruin that.

Mercedes transmissions are actually usually pretty hearty things. But uh... in terms of performance... yeah. Craptastic sounds about right. In the late 80s - 90s, perhaps earlier, idk what possessed them to think that taking off in 2nd gear was a good idea.

[Electronic M]

Dodge may have used VW engines, but I doubt they would have gone VW on the suspension and steering in a K car.

[bgadow]

The LH was really an AMC design as much as anything. Their engineering staff came over after Chrysler bought AM & put them in charge. The (Renault) Eagle Premier was the starting point for the LH & they were built in the former AMC Bramalea factory. Fitting that they were use the Concorde name, as a sort of tribute to the old AMC Concord.