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  #16  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:10 PM
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What tester? Are those numbers in uA? Or is that some arbitrary scale?

0.6 uA on the green gun and you're screwed; tracking will never be correct and green will always be insufficient.

If it is some arbitrary scale, then it's anyone's guess.

Find someone with a Beltron and a Tesla coil to test it...
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:14 PM
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And about the huge control: it was placed on the back because it was erroneously believed that the hue control wouldn't require much adjustment on the customer's end. Any change in phase caused by transmission and the set itself was believed to be more or less constant.

Some sets have drifty chroma circuits, others not so much. The museum's H840CK15 seems relatively stable for a set running on mostly original caps.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benman94 View Post
And about the huge control: it was placed on the back because it was erroneously believed that the hue control wouldn't require much adjustment on the customer's end. Any change in phase caused by transmission and the set itself was believed to be more or less constant.
The rear of the Westinghouse H840CK15 color chassis. The hue control is upper left.

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File Type: jpg 1954 Westy back (1).jpg (86.1 KB, 42 views)
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  #19  
Old 08-10-2018, 01:16 PM
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Update

UPDATE, AUGUST 10, 2018

From Mike:
Tonight I began the chassis removal process. I am collecting photos which will come later. I was very disturbed to discover that there were NO CHASSIS BOLTS at all holding the main chassis to the cabinet.

The chassis serial number is on a tag glued to the high voltage cage and it appears to be ME000147

I take that to be the 147th one produced. The ME is likely a location code of where it was built. Any ideas?

No serial numbers on the crt neck or socket but the code date (which is visible in your picture) is 4-13.

I take that to be the 13th week of 1954 which likely makes this the original crt.



Author: I wanted to make sure the chassis bolts were tightened and that they be checked prior to crating. I was assured this would be done. Very disappointing!

Possibly ME stands for Metuchen, NY. Where the first sets went into production.

According to Marlin Mackey’s site, the set serial numbers don’t jive with the chassis numbers. An example: Television serial number MW006012, chassis number ME000812.

Thanks for the numbers, I agree. More to come.
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2018, 07:16 AM
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Possibly ME stands for Metuchen, NY. Where the first sets went into production.

That's New Jersey
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  #21  
Old 08-11-2018, 02:08 PM
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Thanks. Mislead by this.

( News clipping )
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Last edited by etype2; 08-12-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2018, 04:51 PM
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UPDATE, August 12, 2018

From Mike. OK, onward to removing the chassis and crt. This will be sent over a few emails due to the number of pictures.

Pictures 1 and 2 Front panels and knobs being removed.

Picture 3 Broken knob (the white one). Not sure of its function just yet.

Picture 4 Chassis on the bench. Note: there were NO chassis bolts holding the main chassis to the cabinet. The power supply chassis is mounted in the lower part of the cabinet and it will be removed soon.
Picture 5 and 6 show magnetic shield mis-alignment bottom and then top. I believe when this piece is properly installed it should mate nicely with the other parts.

Picture 7 These pieces fell out from under the chassis as I removed it from the cabinet. One screw that I might likely find the place for later, the second looks like a tuning slug from one of the tuned transformers. (the next picture shows where this possibly came from). And then, what looks like a broken tuning slug core from some tuned transformer.

Picture 8 a tuned transformer with seemingly a missing tuning screw. The core piece may be inside the transformer.
Picture 9 Chassis top left.

Picture 10 Degassing coil plug.

Picture 11 and 12 Disconnecting the High Voltage connector.
Picture 13 Blocking the face end of the crt before removing screws. This insures minimum loading on the neck of the tube as the screws are removed.

Picture 14 Removing the necessary 3 screws on each side to unmount the crt from the chassis.

Picture 15 CRT removed.

Picture 16 CRT on bench. The tube will be boxed and placed in another building with my other CRT’s until I am ready for it later in the restoration process.
Picture 17 Serious issues with the quality of the aquadag on the CRT.

Picture 18 These flakes of “DAG” were found on the chassis after the crt was removed. I guess it’s a good thing that I purchased a supply of aquadag liquid from Scott Avitt before he closed up Hawkeye. This issue, I’m sure, will be a very easy part of the restoration process.

Picture 19 The chassis bottom.

Thus far, I have been doing some thinking on how this restoration will go. I will be doing this one a lot differently than ever before. Most of the repairs will be done without a crt at all and using only test equipment to breath life back in to the individual circuits. That way the CRT stays “safe” until I am ready for it. I may use a monochrome crt mounted to the chassis for some of the testing process. The signals from the individual circuits can then be patched in to the monochrome gun one at a time so the quality of the images can be seen as needed. This way, the Luminance and Chrominance signals can be evaluated without the use of the 15EGP22 being in the set.

Let the games begin.

Mike





Good Afternoon Mike,

I have all 19 photos. Thank you. Breathed a sigh of relief after reading your last comment about the dag.
Sound like an excellent plan. Great idea to remove the “beast” from the chassis to allow easier serviceing.
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As always, tap on any image to open the image carousel. Tap icon again for full resolution images.

GO HERE FOR FULL RESOLUTION IMAGES. https://visions4netjournal.com/westinghouse/
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Last edited by etype2; 08-12-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2018, 07:18 PM
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Slip plate is a good substitute for aquadag...It is just a paint on conductive coating so dag flaking is not an issue for an unrestored non-working set. (were the set run with flaking dag there is risk of the fallen flakes causing shorts on the chassis, and if the flaking leaves dag islands or disconnects the ground connections for the CRT that could be bad) Any competent TV restorer knows to handle dag issues before power up.

If your repairman has a color CRT test jig most of those can be configured to work with these chassis (mine lacked settings/adapter listings for my 21CT55, but I reverse engineered those). Just need to set the jig yoke impedance selector to the correct setting for tube sets, and make adapters for the CRT and yoke connectors. Dynamic convergence won't work on the jig, but that is not important during the bench portion of the restoration.
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2018, 07:43 PM
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Mike has a RE21FBP22 test CRT. Good to know about the substitute. I see Amazon has dag solutions.

I’d like to point out in pix# 2, a user “convergence” control. Pix#8, notice the cable leading to rear mounted hue control. I’d like to rig the cable forward and exiting at the bottom of the cabinet. In this way I can actually see the adjustments on the screen. The mirror idea seems ridiculous on a restored set. For purists, we can easily restore to it’s original position. Pix #13, blocking while releasing tension loading.

We shall see as the restoration progress’s.
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
Mike has a RE21FBP22 test CRT. Good to know about the substitute. I see Amazon has dag solutions.

I’d like to point out in pix# 2, a user “convergence” control. Pix#8, notice the cable leading to rear mounted hue control. I’d like to rig the cable forward and exiting at the bottom of the cabinet. In this way I can actually see the adjustments on the screen. The mirror idea seems ridiculous on a restored set. For purists, we can easily restore to it’s original position. Pix #13, blocking while releasing tension loading.

We shall see as the restoration progress’s.
An option I'd research if I had one of these sets is the possibility of locating the hue control in the pencil box. If any of the user controls in the pencil box are non-concentric shaft controls, and if any of those are standard pot resistance values what I'd do is find a concentric pot with inner shaft (rear pot) resistance matching the hue and outer shaft (front pot) resistance matching the existing pencil box pot (or vice versa if it was a control I adjust less frequently than hue). Then I'd remove and save the original single pot from the pencil box and install the new concentric shaft dual pot and wire the original function and the hue to the respective sections of the new pot...It would be cleaner than dangling wires for the hue control out the bottom of the cabinet and your MUCH less likely to mash up the hue pot/wiring when moving the set.
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2018, 08:04 PM
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Agree, it’s a better solution and my first choice. If we go with option B, I envision the control being out of sight, but cabinet mounted.
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Last edited by etype2; 08-12-2018 at 08:14 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-13-2018, 05:51 AM
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Has Mike even looked at the schematic for this set?

That isn't a degaussing coil; it's the field neutralization coil. A small amount of DC current passes through it to help counteract the existing magnetic field at the face of the tube (from the earth itself etc) to allow for decent purity.
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:01 AM
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Also, have you purchased a replacement convergence transformer from John Folsom yet?

Many of them are open at the start of a restoration, and many others will open or short during a restoration. It's best to replace it with new part now to avoid damaging hard to find potentiometers.
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  #29  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benman94 View Post
Has Mike even looked at the schematic for this set?

That isn't a degaussing coil; it's the field neutralization coil. A small amount of DC current passes through it to help counteract the existing magnetic field at the face of the tube (from the earth itself etc) to allow for decent purity.
From Mike late last night: I have been studying the Westinghouse documents and learned that the degaussing ring on the front of the crt is in fact the opposite. Interesting to me, it is a gaussing coil that actually sets up a magnetic field that is adjustable, at the faceplate of the tube. So, I think we can change the wording on the page. IF I learn differently I will let you know. And again, Let the games begin. This will likely be the biggest accomplishment yet for me in my restoration projects. I remain optimistic. And it looks like I have a lot of parts to order for this one.
A piece of the wiring fell out of the high voltage cage when I set the chassis on the bench. It looks like a wire from one of the filament leads to a high voltage rectifier but I have yet to figure it out for sure. Also, I noticed that the metal cover is missing from the high voltage cage on the right side. This will be easy to make but it will not be of the original material unless I can find copper clad of that size locally. Not a big deal, just an observation that I will have to deal with. I suspect that a tech has left it off to give more cooling to the flyback. Maybe not a bad idea to leave it off but we can discuss that sometime.
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Last edited by etype2; 08-13-2018 at 09:44 AM.
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  #30  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benman94 View Post
Also, have you purchased a replacement convergence transformer from John Folsom yet?

Many of them are open at the start of a restoration, and many others will open or short during a restoration. It's best to replace it with new part now to avoid damaging hard to find potentiometers.
No. Sounds like a good idea. Had no idea he has one. I will pass this along to Mike.
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Last edited by etype2; 08-13-2018 at 09:47 AM.
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