1961 hand held color tv?

[etype2]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.

I wrote the comment for my website. The photo and text were copied as found from Motorola's 1966 annual report. The top portion very much looks like a display screen in that photo. When JR Tech mentioned it was probably a perforated speaker grille, the light bulb went off and I agree, it probably is not a TV because of the pointed shape of that grille. If you re-read the text, it says "all in one unit" and "patients can operate a combination radio-TV". Since a nurse call device with radio have been around for decades, even back to 1957 when I was last in a hospital, I thought Motorola had come up with a new innovation. Also, Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by etype2

Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

FWIW, my take on these demonstrations...

1. I believe the 1966 Motorola prototype existed...a talented Engineer with the skill of a watchmaker could have built something like that. About the same time frame, an engineer that I knew built a tiny battery powered oscilloscope that worked, using a 3/4 inch diameter electrostatic CRT.

2. I believe the 1966 Sinclair demo, again a conventional electrostatic deflection monochrome crt and fairly conventional circuitry. A real product followed shortly.

3. Of course the 1970 monochrome Panasonic was a real product and even contained an IC to reduce the amount of discrete circuitry, as well as a conventional design magnetic deflection CRT.

4. At that time, all of the above would have been fairly simple exercises compared to making a flat CRT for a tiny TV set, and color would add extreme complexity to the design. I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

5. Perhaps in the mid 80s, Sanyo came close to introducing a beam index "lollipop" CRT color set, but I think by that time sets with color LCDs close to becoming a reality...it was simply too little / too late for that product.

Just my 2 cents,
jr

[etype2]

[QUOTE I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

The 1966 Intertel set was indeed a working prototype. In the Feb. 1966 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there was a 5 page write up about it. The opening paragraph by the reporter: "FLAT TV PICTURE TUBES ARE REALLY HERE. There are both color and black-and-white versions. I know, I've seen them in action. I've held them in my hands."

This photo is of an actual image on the screen: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

The tube is a flat tube very similar in looks to the Sanyo "lollypop" CRT. In the article you can see design sketches and working images on the tube.

To further the information, the 1961 RCA flat screen shown in the EBAY press photo auction was shown on the cover of the May, 1963 Mechanix Illustrated magazine. Possibly RCA was still tinkering with the design behind the scenes.

To further fuel the thought, an RCA engineer, George Hilmeir and his team invented and patented the first working LCD displays. They started work in secret from 1962 and announced to the world in a press conference in 1968, the development of the first LCD panels. Unfortunately, RCA never capitalized on their LCD patents, perhaps not to compete with their successful Color CRT division. Possibly RCA could have been thinking with this 1961-1963 mock up to use the new LCD panels they invented.

Here is a Photo of George Hilmeir standing outside of the Princeton RCA laboratories displaying an LCD imaging device. This photo was taken ironically, 1966 according to the David Sarnoff library: http://www.visions4.net/journal/new/...525-wordpress/

[David Roper]

Originally Posted by etype2

This photo is of an actual image on the screen:

Huh? You can't be serious.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by David Roper

Huh? You can't be serious.

The full article: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/pm-0266.pdf

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by etype2

The 1966 Intertel set was indeed a working prototype. In the Feb. 1966 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there was a 5 page write up about it. The opening paragraph by the reporter: "FLAT TV PICTURE TUBES ARE REALLY HERE. There are both color and black-and-white versions. I know, I've seen them in action. I've held them in my hands."

This photo is of an actual image on the screen: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

I am very skeptical ... Popular magazines such as PM and MI were saying that flat screen "hang on the wall" TVs are "coming soon" & "just around the corner" since the Aiken and Gabor patents were filed in the 50s. Work did continue on both designs until about 1970, but no practical production devices resulted. No doubt, designers could have been working with such devices and speculating about and showing mock-ups of potential applications, but I think that the cover picture from PM was a total "hoax", for several reasons:

1. The circuitry required to operate a color flat tube in 1966 IMHO, could not possibly fit inside that box.

2. The "beach scene" lighting likely would have washed out any CRT display.

3. If the display was transparent and viewable from both sides, as indicated, wouldn't the viewers arm be viewable in the background of the image.

4. The display picture simply looks "too good" ... if Intertel had something that good in 1966, what happened to them?

again, just my 2 cents worth,
jr

[etype2]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

I am very skeptical ... Popular magazines such as PM and MI were saying that flat screen "hang on the wall" TVs are "coming soon" & "just around the corner" since the Aiken and Gabor patents were filed in the 50s. Work did continue on both designs until about 1970, but no practical production devices resulted. No doubt, designers could have been working with such devices and speculating about and showing mock-ups of potential applications, but I think that the cover picture from PM was a total "hoax", for several reasons:

1. The circuitry required to operate a color flat tube in 1966 IMHO, could not possibly fit inside that box.

2. The "beach scene" lighting likely would have washed out any CRT display.

3. If the display was transparent and viewable from both sides, as indicated, wouldn't the viewers arm be viewable in the background of the image.

4. The display picture simply looks "too good" ... if Intertel had something that good in 1966, what happened to them?

again, just my 2 cents worth,
jr

I agree, the cover photo not real, just to show the potential. Did you read the full article in my last post?

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by etype2

I agree, the cover photo not real, just to show the potential. Did you read the full article in my last post?

Just did... looks as if they had some working but crude lab prototypes of a design similar to the Sony "lollipop" CRTs as well as a very cute mock-up of a portable set.
The limited color (2 color) tube might have been workable, but might not have been good enough to generate much interest and investment capitol for production start up costs.

interesting,
jr

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Just did... looks as if they had some working but crude lab prototypes of a design similar to the Sony "lollipop" CRTs as well as a very cute mock-up of a portable set.
The limited color (2 color) tube might have been workable, but might not have been good enough to generate much interest and investment capitol for production start up costs.

interesting,
jr

Viewable from both sides makes sense for a 2-color CRT with two phosphors on opposite sides of a glass plate - but the picture would be awfully washed out if you actually left both sides open.

[Phil Nelson]

Originally Posted by etype2

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg

Interesting. Do you know the magazine (title, date) where that article was published?

The article mentions a paper by Mr. Tanner that was read at a 1966 IEEE convention. The IEEE website has many old archived documents. It would be fun to read that guy's paper, if available.

Phil Nelson

[etype2]

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

Interesting. Do you know the magazine (title, date) where that article was published?

The article mentions a paper by Mr. Tanner that was read at a 1966 IEEE convention. The IEEE website has many old archived documents. It would be fun to read that guy's paper, if available.

Phil Nelson

The article about the 1 1/8 inch Motorola TV was from the Columbus Dispatch in 1966. I don't know the day or month. I saw this on the history of television website. If your a subscriber to IEEE, would be interested to read his paper.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by etype2

The article about the 1 1/8 inch Motorola TV was from the Columbus Dispatch in 1966. I don't know the day or month. I saw this on the history of television website. If your a subscriber to IEEE, would be interested to read his paper.

DeLoss Tanner died (cerebral hemhorrage, IIRC) just before I got out of school and joined Motorola. I inherited a different project of his, a transistorized black and white TV that was an experiment in cost reducing any way conceivable. The set was breadboarded on a tinplated steel sheet. My first job was to buy a car battery and charger to run it. The IF transistors had no emitter degeneration and were current-biased by the AGC circuit. The CRT had been built from a cut-down glass milk bottle, with the bottom of the bottle as the screen. You could read the dairy's logo, stamped in the bottle bottom, in the picture; and it was, well, "milky" looking (no aluminization). The set basically worked, but there was no hope of holding tolerances for production. I got it running, and it went into storage or maybe got trashed, I don't recall; but at least it then was a documented experiment.