VHS VCR 15-year average reliability data (1978-1993)...

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

We saw our share of Toshibas. I remember a few Betas from the late '70s-early '80s. VHS mostly rubber drive parts. The later line early-mid-'90s that included M-752 I think it was, tended to get a cracked capstan motor pulley to the reel drive, many came in with that pulley loose spinning around, or some the belt would just break and/or get soft and fall off, and of course no reel drive eats tapes. RCA decided to sell Toshiba-made VCRs at that time with that same mechanism so we saw a lot of those too. Another common fail was the die-cast loading arm that went from under the cam gear and operated the FL mechanism. Many of those came in with that cast arm broken, from operator getting a tape jammed. There was also one certain electrolytic in the SMPS that would fail and PS would not start up after a power failure. Another Toshiba model would not tune to certain HRC cable channels, would just hunt back-and-forth across the channel not lock. We got in over 50 of those all in warranty to add a capacitor to the tuner circuit to change a timing issue and make it work.

Ahhh, yes, this was the mid-90s Toshiba chassis, which was a joint-venture with Thomson/RCA. Studio Sound Electronics, the largest online DIY VCR parts store, called this the MBK-48 chassis, and the owner also agrees this was a junky, unreliable VCR. Frankly, I'm never interested in this chassis.

What about the mid-to-late-1980s Toshibas with linear power supply inside? No major problems, right, besides rubber parts? I assume it's reliable overall, and the #2 most-reliable rating must be valid after all.

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Agree about the Panasonics and their offspring, capacitors especially not aging well. I gambled and lost when I bought an AG-1830 new in 1989 for roughly $1000, even bought a spare head drum, but every capacitor in that thing must be bad. It started showing symptoms after maybe 5-6 years.

The most common caps failed in the Panasonics are the surface-mount caps located on the video and Hi-Fi audio board, and I've seen this in many Panasonic units made after 1988, whether it's a simple, no-frill 2-head mono or 6-head Hi-Fi S-VHS unit. Video that turns black, no color, and distorted video, or distorted or no Hi-Fi audio sound are all caused by the surface-mount caps placed on bottom of the hybrid IC board. Repairs are always costly, and they will eventually fail again shortly in the future, due to poor design. They overheated most of the time due to poor ventilation, so the surface-mount caps dried up faster than normal.

My local technician is always not happy fixing this for me. Every time I sent him a Panasonic board to fix, he had to unsoldered 55 joints total, then 10 joints for all the surface-mount caps, and then re-soldered 55 joints again when finished. Total: 120 solder joints, and I only paid him $40 total, and the tech quoted me a wrong price in the end and told me I got a great deal. Re-soldering all 55 joints were the most difficult to do for him, as the tiny solder joints could make contact with each other easily and blow out the power supply if not soldered right.

Tech told me to stay away from Panasonic units made after 1988 (aka. G-Chassis decks) if I plan to keep vintage VCRs running for another 50 years in the future.

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

There were a few Panasonics and Quasars in the early '80s that had a big ol' power transformer in 'em before they started getting SMPS. Some of those had remarkably durable rubber parts too, that didn't seem to deteriorate like newer rubber.

All the Panasonic/Quasar VCRs made before 1983 used the big ol' linear power transformer. The AG models used this until 1987. The last, linear-powered Panasonic VCRs were the 1986 AG-1810, 1986 AG-1950, and 1986 Canon VR-HF720.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by waltchan

Ahhh, yes, this was the mid-90s Toshiba chassis, which was a joint-venture with Thomson/RCA. Studio Sound Electronics, the largest online DIY VCR parts store, called this the MBK-48 chassis, and the owner also agrees this was a junky, unreliable VCR. Frankly, I'm never interested in this chassis.

Yep those were pretty bad. They really cut back on the mechanism, tape guides and rollers. Had a good picture though. I remember the 19u head switch some had on the front panel. Every one of those Tosh-RCAs I got in if it had been used at all had little piles of tape oxide beneath the tape guides because it was impossible to get the tape to run smoothly without some wrinkling and skewing between the drum exit guide and the AC head guide.

What about the mid-to-late-1980s Toshibas with linear power supply inside? No major problems, right, besides rubber parts? I assume it's reliable overall, and the #2 most-reliable rating must be valid after all.

Rubber parts, reel drive clutch, stuff like that about all I remember.

Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..

[Zenith26kc20]

Mitsubishi with glue eating up the circuit traces! We repaired plenty of them!
Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!
Never dull!

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Zenith26kc20

Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!

These Funai LED problems were really common for the mid-to-late 1990s units, or plastic disposable VCRs. The vintage Funai VCRs from the 1980s had no problems.

[Jeffhs]

My Panasonic PV-4022 VCR has been working flawlessly since I purchased it new in 2002. Since getting a DVD player (now have a Blu-ray), however, the Panasonic VCR doesn't get much use except for occasionally viewing old VHS tapes (and I mean old; many if not most of the VHS cassettes in my collection, except four about a half-dozen professionally recorded ones, have old TV shows and movies on them, and the tapes are now close to if not over twenty years old -- they still work like new).

Panasonic VCRs, TVs, etc. have a reputation for longevity, at least the older ones did. One ad for Panasonic from several years ago (which I saw online -- it may still be on Panasonic's website) states, "How about that TV or VCR that just won't die? Probably a Panasonic."

However, I don't know if today's Panasonic video gear, TVs, etc. can be expected to last as long without repairs as the earlier, older units did. My Panny VCR is ten years old and still works, as I stated above, although the auto clock set does not work since the DTV transition. I find that odd and puzzling, as I can still get my area's PBS channels as NTSC analog on my cable. Perhaps Cleveland's PBS station, for whatever reason, dropped the extended-data (XDS) signal that operates the auto clock set feature in Panny, et al. VCRs.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

My Panasonic PV-4022 VCR has been working flawlessly since I purchased it new in 2002. Since getting a DVD player (now have a Blu-ray), however, the Panasonic VCR doesn't get much use except for occasionally viewing old VHS tapes (and I mean old; many if not most of the VHS cassettes in my collection, except four about a half-dozen professionally recorded ones, have old TV shows and movies on them, and the tapes are now close to if not over twenty years old -- they still work like new).

It's possible for some newer, modern VCRs made after 2000 that lasts just as long as the ones made 15 years before. Newer, modern VCRs have eliminated a loading belt (except Funai) and are more simple-designed. They are also more energy-efficient than before, so the power supply will run cooler, and the caps will be harder to dry up.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Panasonic VCRs, TVs, etc. have a reputation for longevity, at least the older ones did. One ad for Panasonic from several years ago (which I saw online -- it may still be on Panasonic's website) states, "How about that TV or VCR that just won't die? Probably a Panasonic."

Really true, although I am always skeptical with Panasonic's construction material quality. Back in 1984 when Panasonic decided to use a switching power supply, the weight of the unit reduced by about 30-40% overall from last year's 1983 models, due to a lighter-weight power supply. A switching power supply, generally, cost less to produce than a linear power supply, and they fail more often.

Panasonic got even worse and really cut-corners in production quality beginning with the 1988 models (G-chassis decks and AG Pro-Line models), and they failed to realize they would have reliability problems in the long-run. Panasonic's goal was to shrink all their VCR models to make them really compact-looking and lightweight. But they came at a huge cost. To make them smaller, lighter, and more compact, Panasonic was forced to put in a bunch of surface-mount caps placed on the video board and audio board, which usually had short-lifespan. Panasonic also used the smallest-looking, regular-caps they could find, again, they had shorter-lifespan than the larger, regular-sized caps. Most of the small caps were NOT Hi-Temp rated, and failures typically showed up quick after 5-6 years. They overheated most of the time, due to poor ventilation and tight-space, so the caps dried up faster than average time. It's possible to have a G-chassis Panasonic deck with hundreds of caps reading all bad (I've seen one before).

Construction quality has improved after 2000, and worries of electronic-aging issues have become less of a concern, due to improved ventilation and newer Panasonic products becoming more energy-efficient with cooler-running power supply. Today, Panasonic has built more products that weight heavier and bigger than many other brands.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

However, I don't know if today's Panasonic video gear, TVs, etc. can be expected to last as long without repairs as the earlier, older units did. My Panny VCR is ten years old and still works, as I stated above, although the auto clock set does not work since the DTV transition. I find that odd and puzzling, as I can still get my area's PBS channels as NTSC analog on my cable. Perhaps Cleveland's PBS station, for whatever reason, dropped the extended-data (XDS) signal that operates the auto clock set feature in Panny, et al. VCRs.

The new Panasonic products are just as reliable, if not even better, than the ones made several years ago. Some, proven and reliable new Panasonic products today with mostly positive reviews and minimal problems reported are the LCD/LED TV, car stereo, cordless phone, fax machine, copier, printer, rice cooker, beard shaver, air conditioner, and microwave oven. Plasma TV, DVD recorder, Blu-Ray player, and DVD player are all so-so, and I wouldn't consider them to be ultra-reliable.
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[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..

It's probably because Mitsubishi was the 2nd largest VHS VCR producer in Japan after Matsushita (Panasonic) during the late-1980s, so tons of units were sold under several brand names, so more units appeared in service centers. I also see more late-1980s Mitsubishi selling on eBay than others, and not all units had been serviced one-time before.

I also find Mitsubishi somewhat troublesome, but Mitsubishi had slightly better electronics that aged better than Panasonic (assuming the glue was removed), since Mitsubishi didn't put in any surface-mount caps.

[NJRoadfan]

Originally Posted by waltchan

The most common caps failed in the Panasonics are the surface-mount caps located on the video and Hi-Fi audio board, and I've seen this in many Panasonic units made after 1988, whether it's a simple, no-frill 2-head mono or 6-head Hi-Fi S-VHS unit. Video that turns black, no color, and distorted video, or distorted or no Hi-Fi audio sound are all caused by the surface-mount caps placed on bottom of the hybrid IC board. Repairs are always costly, and they will eventually fail again shortly in the future, due to poor design. They overheated most of the time due to poor ventilation, so the surface-mount caps dried up faster than normal.

This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.

As for the later SVHS JVCs (1998-2004), they seem to be reliable although they all seem to be cursed with poor Hi-Fi and EP tape tracking. The DVHS units don't seem to suffer from these problems thankfully. The only problem deck is the HM-DH30000U. Like most JVC products of that era, it suffers from faulty caps from the factory.

For pro equipment, I'd stick with Panny over JVC. In high school TV class, thats all they used and we beat the living crap out of it. Just try killing a pair of AG-6500s with the AG-A750 editor. They had a nice A-B roll setup with 2xAG-DS545s, an AG-DS555, a AG-A850 editor, and a WJ-MX50 mixer. Don't know how that held up, but it seemed just as solid as the 80s gear.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by NJRoadfan

This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.

Any caps that are higher-temp rated are always better and longer lasting than the standard ones. Assuming the Panasonic AG-1980 you have has no picture, you will need to replace all the surface-mount caps placed on the hybrid IC board.

[Tony75]

My experience with Panasonic machines likewise is quite mixed, the early ones with the D-Deck (branded National here) with linear power supplies were very solid and will last forever just with rubber changes. G decks had one motor to do all the loading, reel and capstan driving, this put a lot of strain on the clutch, genuine part replacement was the only cure. Of course the switching power supplies were not that reliable. The later K deck was interesting as it upped the motor count (i think) making the clutch far more reliable. What I really noticed about these was the engineering. They were very reliable and well performing until something went wrong, then basically everything went wrong at the same time or shortly after the last thing was fixed, good quality control really. What it did mean that though, coupled with Panasonic's exorbitant parts prices these machines were almost always an economic write off. I refuse to repair any now apart from the D decks.
Have to agree that the old Funai (mostly badged Teac) here from late 80's were very solid. They went unbelievably downhill in the 90s of course. These older Funais are showing lots of issues now with dried grease but they can be brought back to life, just not economically.
JVC has often been a mixed bag, but my machine, an HR-J200 bought in the mid 90's just keeps going and going and gets a lot of use.
One brand that we get a lot of here that does not make the list is Akai, up until the late 90's they made their own machines. The early ones are quite amazing, some are quite cantankerous too. The later units for this time frame (up to 1993) seem to be holding up well generally without too many catastrophic failures.
Been experimenting with an old Daewoo from the late 80s for a few years now, very solid and surprisingly reliable, like the Panasonics it has a very solid cast alloy chassis. A far cry from some of their later decks, such as ones badged NEC in the early 90s. They did lift their game for their last chassis design, but it did chew through belts.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by Tony75

..
One brand that we get a lot of here that does not make the list is Akai...

Ah yes I remember working on those Akai portable VCRs and cameras from the early '80s. We were an authorized service center for Akai. Model 7350 seems to ring a bell. Was stereo too! I think one of the first stereo VCRs. Linear stereo though, split the narrow mono track into two really narrow stereo not very good audio tracks. Like the Panasonic PV-6000 portable I had for a while. I recall an Akai VCR that was a rebadged JVC (top-loader JVC HR-7300?) about the same time frame.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Ah yes I remember working on those Akai portable VCRs and cameras from the early '80s. We were an authorized service center for Akai. Model 7350 seems to ring a bell. Was stereo too! I think one of the first stereo VCRs. Linear stereo though, split the narrow mono track into two really narrow stereo not very good audio tracks. Like the Panasonic PV-6000 portable I had for a while. I recall an Akai VCR that was a rebadged JVC (top-loader JVC HR-7300?) about the same time frame.

I wonder where Akai's reliability rating should be ranked at? Consumer Reports had no data for Akai VCRs.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by waltchan

I wonder where Akai's reliability rating should be ranked at? Consumer Reports had no data for Akai VCRs.

Probably not enough sold to show up on the survey. I'd almost bet there were more Mitsubishis rebadged with "Video Concepts" name on front sold than Akai was in the US.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Tony75

Have to agree that the old Funai (mostly badged Teac) here from late 80's were very solid. They went unbelievably downhill in the 90s of course. These older Funais are showing lots of issues now with dried grease but they can be brought back to life, just not economically.

I find Funai's oldest VHS machine (MBK-94) made in the mid-1980s to be the most-reliable. The older the Funai, the better it is. Funai's original and first chassis, or MBK-94 that studiosoundelectronics.com called, was the best there. Funai switched to a flat-loading belt chassis (MBK-66), which is still mostly the same-design, but required more belt-changing.

List of all the Funai VHS chassis produced in history:

MBK-94 (1984-1986): http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/mbk-94.htm

MBK-66 (1986-1988): http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/mbk-66.htm

MBK-83 (1988-1992): http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/mbk-83.htm

MBK-67 (1992-2000): http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/mbk-67.htm

(2000-present): Available at Wal-Mart right now

Funai had always used a geared idler-wheel system, and having one in 1984-1986 was unheard of at that time. It was a huge improvement in reliability versus the ones with rubber-tire.
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