Saba 300 Automatic-Stereo/11 issues

[vortalexfan]

Greetings everyone, I'm working on a Saba 300 Automatic-Stereo/11 Radio for someone who was complaining that the audio was having some trouble, and I need a tube location chart for this radio because its tube location chart is missing and I found a service manual for it on HiFi Engine (albeit in German) and it doesn't show a tube location chart and when I opened this radio up I noticed a tube was missing (a 7-pin miniature tube) and I have no idea which tube is supposed to go there in that empty tube socket without the tube placement chart.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

[vortalexfan]

Never mind found the tube chart, it was embossed onto the back cover, like all good German Radios are.

I just forgot to look there.

I'm just so used to working on American sets that have a paper tube location chart glued to the inside or the underside of the cabinet and forgot that the Germans didn't do that on their radios.

[vortalexfan]

What's a good substitute for the ECL86 tube? I know the tube substitution booklet I have says the 6GW8 is the American Equivalent to the ECL86 tube but the ECL86 tube at least is a $60+ tube on AES and other tube retailer websites including ebay.

I haven't looked up the 6GW8 but I know that AES and some other tube retailers sell them under the ECL86 designation and are basically the same price.

Does anyone here have either one of these tubes that they could spare?

[Josef]

There are different possibilities in replacing an ECL86:

A PCL86 will work but needs a higher heater voltage.

If your are not interested in keeping the radio original you could try to replace the two ECL86 with an ECC83 and two EL84 including a lot of soldering and I guess unwanted modifications. Also keep in mind that the required heater current will be quite higher in this case.

Another idea is replacing them with ECL82 which are older, have less output power and a different pinout but: this tube usually lasts much longer than ECL86.
If the SABA chassis is handwired it might be worth a try.

Just to mention: I never tried some of these ideas out because I usually avoid radios with ECL86 which I absolutely don't like

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by Josef

There are different possibilities in replacing an ECL86:

A PCL86 will work but needs a higher heater voltage.

If your are not interested in keeping the radio original you could try to replace the two ECL86 with an ECC83 and two EL84 including a lot of soldering and I guess unwanted modifications. Also keep in mind that the required heater current will be quite higher in this case.

Another idea is replacing them with ECL82 which are older, have less output power and a different pinout but: this tube usually lasts much longer than ECL86.
If the SABA chassis is handwired it might be worth a try.

Just to mention: I never tried some of these ideas out because I usually avoid radios with ECL86 which I absolutely don't like

Hi there, thanks for the heads up about the ECL86 tube, its kind of funny because I was watching a recent Shango066 youtube video where he was working on an early 1960s Packard-Bell Stereo System which used a set of ECL86 tubes in it for the output stage and he too had one ECL86 tube that tested bad which he was going to replace the two tubes with some NOS ones until he saw the price of them (like I did, and got sticker shock).

So he just decided to leave them be, and he ended up having a severely out of alignment tuner section which was causing his problems as far as a lack of volume goes in tuner mode, because tape and phono mode were plenty loud, but the tuner section was super quiet, like in this radio's case.

But since this is a German radio the only service information I have which is a service manual in the back of the cabinet which is in German and in broken English I don't know if I would have a very easy time realigning this radio or not.

[Telecolor 3007]

Exactly what information do you need?

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

Exactly what information do you need?

Some idea of how to go about servicing this thing, like alignment instructions etc. that isn't in German or Broken English, and perhaps a source for a ECL86 tube that isn't going to cost over $100. I'm working on this for someone and I'd prefer not to have to spend $100+ for a set of output tubes for this thing.

[Telecolor 3007]

6GW8 may be the equyvalent. Here is the technical data for ECL 86: https://www.sm5cbw.se/tubes/htm/ecl86.htm
On the other hand, try to buy N.O.S. tubes from Europe. You can get 'em cheaper.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

6GW8 may be the equyvalent. Here is the technical data for ECL 86: https://www.sm5cbw.se/tubes/htm/ecl86.htm

Yes I knew about 6GW8 tube being equivalent, but that tube hardly shows up for sale anywhere, and if it does it's just as expensive as the ECL86.

I have about 3 ECL82/6BM8 tubes but from what a previous poster told me, that would involve completely rewiring the socket.

[jr_tech]

Perhaps an adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20331659410...Cclp%3A2334524

not affiliated,
jr

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Perhaps an adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20331659410...Cclp%3A2334524

not affiliated,
jr

That's perfect! I'll need two of those, because this Saba is Stereo so it uses a Single-Ended ECL86 Amplifier Stage.

I'll see if I can order a couple of those when I get back home.

[DavGoodlin]

If you still have audio issues, replace the capacitors to the grids of both parts of the ECL86 (or ECL82) and the one across the output transformer primary.

I have found in European sets in particular, that paper caps were crappy, and way more so than US made caps of that same era. Yet European electrolytics (especially Siemens) are usually not bad, but I change them anyway.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Perhaps an adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20331659410...Cclp%3A2334524

not affiliated,
jr

Hi, I ordered 2 of those ECL82 to ECL86 tube adaptors the other day, and apparently they are coming from China?! The weird part is that the description didn't say anything about being from China....

On top of that because its coming from China its going to take a month more or less for the parts to get here...

Just looked at the full tracking history and the package originated in Wuhan, China.... Go figure.....

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

..... The weird part is that the description didn't say anything about being from China....

[Electronic M]

There's also the option of making your own adapters...the ones you ordered are probably just a base, a socket and some wire to remap the pinout. If you can get a socket, adapter and wire and read the data sheets for the tubes you can make an adapter.

A few years ago I had a 20s AC powered radio console that used brand proprietary audio output tubes that I wouldn't find for a price I'd pay to on a radio I was going to sell or more likely give away. So I found a 60's miniature power triode that was compatible and had a bit more gain and built my own adapters out of stuff in my parts bins. It worked like a champ.